[jcmanson]

Why did this not happen last year? Is it something that the other teams have just figured out? Or are we just not executing this year?

[Chris Lang]

I can't believe people are pinning this loss on Brock Smith. Or the playcalling. It was defense, pure and simple. Brock made a heck of a play to get LU in field goal range late, and Sene gets called for being ineligible downfield. It was a bang-bang play. Sene thought Brock was taking off on a run. Mistakes happen.

Brock Smith is the least of Liberty's concerns. Defense is No. 1. You have to be able to get off the field on third down, and Liberty couldn't.

[SuperJon]

I agree completely. Brock Smith is a "game manager" type quarterback. We are at our best when we run the ball to set up the pass, not the other. If our defense plays like swiss cheese, all of a sudden we have to pass, pass, pass. We can't get into shootouts with these teams. We go from a great scoring defense last year to absolutely dreadful this year.

[FlamingChick]

Well, I just got back from the game. I'm VERY disappointed, but I'm going to have to blame this one on the coaching. We beat Toledo for 3.5 quarters and then our coaches lost their minds. The play calling went down the tubes. Going away from the run on that last drive was a MAJOR mistake--why stop a good thing?? All we needed to do was give Rashad the ball, and if we couldnt get the TD, we could've at least set Noah up for the Field Goal. As inconsistent as Brock is, I can not believe they put the game in his hands at the end of that game! They had wayyy too much faith in him at that point. We could have had at least two more TDs had Brock been more consistent. Again, he was shown up by a true freshman QB. I'm not going to say anything else bad about Brock b/c it is not his fault that we lost that game. Brock is Brock.

As for the Defense, I thought they started out pretty good. The problem, I think is that they got tired. We had a lot of 3 and outs during this game leaving our defense was on the field for 37 minutes-- Not to mention the fact that it was 80 degrees and HUMID out there tonight. I think that we covered the middle a LOT better than we did against W&M, it just wasnt good enough. Oh yeah, and that #88 receiver for Toledo was a BEAST. The kid is 6'5 and I swear he jumps like 3 feet in the air!! Our defense had some good plays tonight, just couldnt pull it out in the end. Good game for SRL, Greiser, Redd, Best, etc.

All in all, I'm glad I was able to make the trip to support the Flames. The trip home would be alot sweeter with the win though...

[Hold My Own]

I can't believe people are pinning this loss on Brock Smith. Or the playcalling. It was defense, pure and simple. Brock made a heck of a play to get LU in field goal range late, and Sene gets called for being ineligible downfield. It was a bang-bang play. Sene thought Brock was taking off on a run. Mistakes happen.

Brock Smith is the least of Liberty's concerns. Defense is No. 1. You have to be able to get off the field on third down, and Liberty couldn't.

I agree, I may not be the biggest Brock Smith fan, and actually think if we suffer a Conf loss we need to begin a new direction it sounds like this was one of his better games...threw a few moderate deep balls and stuff...you wont hear me say to many neg's about this game for Brock but as I've been yelling since W&M and Hicks was talking trash while getting abused...our problem is DB's...I cant even say defense as a whole...we have a GREAT LB core and Redd makes our DL well above average so that only leaves one group left to grade....DB

I agree chick, I understand there wasnt alot of time left...but when you need a first down why not give it to RJ who's been getting them all night, clock stops for the 1st that'll give you plenty of time to line up and do it all over again

[Sly Fox]

The recap from the SIDs ...

Late Fourth Quarter Touchdown Propels Rockets Past Flames, 35-34

October 6, 2007
Toledo, Ohio

Box Score

Jalen Parmele had a pair of short-yardage fourth-quarter touchdowns, including a five-yard burst with 3:47 left to play, allowing Toledo to sneak away with a 35-34 comeback victory over Liberty, Saturday evening, at the Glass Bowl.

The Flames came within minutes of recording the program’s second victory over a FBS school. Liberty’s lone win over a FBS program came in 1989 when the Flames upset Eastern Michigan, 25-24, in Ypsilanti, Mich. on Oct. 14.

Click Here for Full Story

[ToTheLeft]

I just crunched some numbers that made me sick.

Here are our stats vs Division I opponents with scholarships:

Gained:
145.6 - 187.3 - 333

Given up:
186.3 - 326.6 - 513

In contrast, here is another team that we're playing this year against Division I teams:

Gained:
121 - 229.75 - 350.75

Given up:
188.25 - 272.5 - 460.75

That team?






Presbyterian. Averaging more yards and giving up less. With half as many scholarships.

That's gonna be great.

If we lose to Presby, in front of a home crowd, at HOMECOMING.

We'd hardly have 5000 people in the seats for the rest of the Big South schedule.

They'd all rater go see a concert.

It's a possibility.

A very real possibility.

--

But here is the hopeful side...

This team is a Dickerson interception and a tackle or two (or one penalty less) in the Toledo game from being 5-1.

a 5-1 team that we would all be hopeful about.

Do the stats suck?

Yeah... But you know what they say...

Stats are for losers.

This team can compete. It just needs to learn how to win. I know thats been said, but it should be said again. We need to learn how to win.

Lets get behind this team, support the QB who gives us the best chance to win and the Coach that brings in talent that this school hasn't seen in a while/ever and see if they can give us a Big South Championship.

Is that the best thing in the world? No.

Would it be a heckuva end to a dramatic season like this has been so far? Of course.

We might lose to Chuck, we might lose to GW, we might lose every last game.

But I'm not counting on it.

[RagingTireFire]

This is pathetic. And I'm talking about you guys.

You guys are the worst fans in the world. Sly should change the banner at the top to "Intense. Opinionated. Loyal...ish. Completely panicked at slightest provocation."

When Stevev is the voice of reason, you know you guys -- especially you, SJ and Medic -- have gone off the deep end. I give the Left kid some leeway b/c he's a freshman and doesn't yet know he's an idiot. We went toe to toe with a I-A -- something that hasn't happened in over a decade -- and you guys are pitching a bus party. You make me sad.

You guys let me know when your common sense reattaches and I'll talk to you then. In the meantime, I'm going to go find some VMI fans to refresh my sense of perspective.

[SuperJon]

Last night I was ticked off. We had just led a I-A the entire game and gave it away at the end. Did I let my emotions get in the way of logic? Definitely. Did I cool off as the night went on? Yes, I did. That's evidenced by what I posted. I went from looking up sheer numbers to trying to use what Coach has said in interviews and press conferences to determine why we lost. Something in my head clicked after I looked up the Presby numbers. After having some time to sleep on it, I realize I said some things that were sheer emotions speaking. I probably knew at the time that it was just emotions speaking when I said it. Does that make it better? No, not at all. The thing is, I know when to admit I was wrong. Does me saying this make those things better? No, not really. I could go back and edit them so that people can't see what I said but that's not the point. Are there things that worry me? Yes, there are. However, I've never once questioned the coaching staff. That's something I will not do. Period. I have complete faith that they will change something. They do every week. After the W&M game, they fixed things so that we didn't get killed by the tight end over the middle every play and added more pressure. Elon found a way to beat us. They fixed that last night, but our guys didn't tackle. The coaches can't tackle for the players. Me saying the players couldn't tackle is completely based on the way Jerry Edwards described the game, so it could very well be completely wrong. Do I think we should've run more at the end of the game? Yes, but with that being said, I didn't see the defenses that were being played, I didn't know how Rashad was feeling endurance wise, I don't know all of the intangibles to say that yes, we should've definitely ran the ball. That's why I absolutely hate listening to games on the radio, especially our radio. It's hard to tell what's going on until after it happens or you can see all the things that go into calling one play in football. We've let Brock lead us down the field before to put us in a winning situation and in EVERY case before last night, he had (Towson, G-W, Coastal, W&M). That's why I said last night that it was the first time Brock hadn't put us in a chance to win, and quite honestly, he did give us a chance and we just committed a penalty. In most cases, I can say to someone on here, "Yea, you'd have a good point, but that isn't how it actually happened and you couldn't tell that because you weren't there." Well, unfortunately, I wasn't there. I wanted to be, but just couldn't afford it. Usually I'm the voice of reason when everyone around me is going off the deep end. Last night I wasn't. One thing that I will not accept is someone questioning my loyalty. Last night, on a night when my family was celebrating my birthday (albeit a week early), I spent the majority of the night listening to the game and somewhat talking to them (except at dinner). After the game was over, I immediately started making plans for the Charleston Southern trip since the others fell through and it's only going to be two of us now. I was still at our game last week hours before hand, by myself no-less, because I was excited for the game and wanted to tailgate even if it meant sitting in the back of my car listening to the radio. I admit I was vocal last night and let my emotions speak for me. I even said, "I'm normally not vocal after losses, and I try to stay positive, but tonight was just the tipping point for me." Part of that was frustration with the loss, part of it was not being there, part of it was other things compiling to help me reach that point where you lose your logic and speak on just emotions. That proves, if anything, that I'm just a 20 year old kid with a lot to learn. Am I outspoken and opinionated? Yes, and I always will be, it's who I am. The difference is, I'll admit when I was wrong, and last night, I was. I said things on sheer emotion that I shouldn't have and if anyone more important than me is reading this, I apologize. I very likely would've had a completely different opinion of the game if I was able to see it but I wasn't. The great thing about going to the games like this is I normally "cool off" walking to the car or driving back home. Last night, I was emotional and had a laptop sitting in front of me from the get go and didn't have the discipline to say, "Wait, cool off, come back later." For that, I apologize. The only thing I can say about the rest of the season is you'll see me there, at every game, being just as loud and just as supportive as I was the first five games of the season. The players like to say that the Elon game didn't happen and that them coming out flat was a fluke, etc. I'm saying the same about last night. It was a fluke. I let my emotions take over. It won't happen again. Sorry to anyone reading this that was offended.

[auntie ann]

that last pass Bolden sould have had. or definite interference call...... i think coaching did uds in, te second alf uggh... you cannot let a team get 5 yards a carry and beat tem..... I am just so depressed, ubby went to bed tinking we won, yelled down and tought he heard me wrong.. watching te game Toledo did not seem to have much eart in the game, Liberty looked so much like the better team. and then this.................

[dcbailey]

I'm wearing a red shirt today....over a heart that still pounds, "Go L.U.!"

[bozlady]

There have been MANY, and I mean MANY times throughout the years that I've woken up the Sunday after a Saturday loss and just didn't want to do anything, go anywhere, talk to anybody.....I just wanted to stay in my bed and pretend it never happened. This morning was not one of those mornings, yes I am disappointed, frustrated and sad that we lost but I'm still proud of our boys, I'm still very hopeful and still have a sense of encouragement. They looked and played better and am glad that we didn't get doused like we did at Elon. To tell you the truth, while looking at everyone's predictions, I really didn't expect the Flames to be ahead most of the game and to score as much as they did. Maybe that's what made everyone so upset is because it looked, it REALLY looked like we were holding that "W" and it got snatched away from us. Hopefully Hursky and Terrell will be ready for some BIG SOUTH barrrinski kicking in two weeks!!!

[El Scorcho]

No defense = offensive shootout

Without consistent QB play we will always lose the shootout.

And Lord help us if the other team's defense is worth anything.

That about sums it up for me. Starts with the defense. We can't give away 513 yards per game and win.

Scorcho and others, I still don't think you can blame this on play calling. Seems like we had the right play called, just a penalty. If no penalty we are down to the 30, and talking about how great we are. It's very dissapointing, we don't know how to win. Our defense is pathetic. I don't know how that happened. We had such a good defense last year, and now we can't stop anyone.

Read above. I don't think our play calling becomes suspect until we're put into a crunch because of our lack of defense. I'm not blaming play calling as the overall reason we lost the game. I did criticize the play calling, but if you continued to read my posts (especially the one I quoted above), then you'd see that I progressed in my thought process. I think it all boils down to defense, which is why we end up in pressure situations where we're not the greatest with our play calls or QB play. If our defense never put us in that spot, then I don't think the play calling and QB play would be a factor for us.

[El Scorcho]

This is pathetic. And I'm talking about you guys.

You guys are the worst fans in the world. Sly should change the banner at the top to "Intense. Opinionated. Loyal...ish. Completely panicked at slightest provocation."

When Stevev is the voice of reason, you know you guys -- especially you, SJ and Medic -- have gone off the deep end. I give the Left kid some leeway b/c he's a freshman and doesn't yet know he's an idiot. We went toe to toe with a I-A -- something that hasn't happened in over a decade -- and you guys are pitching a bus party. You make me sad.

You guys let me know when your common sense reattaches and I'll talk to you then. In the meantime, I'm going to go find some VMI fans to refresh my sense of perspective.

We did go toe to toe with them, but we gave the game away to them the same way we've done two times before. No matter what level they play on, our same flaws (and name our defense) cost us the game. I don't care if we're playing a bunch all-Americans from USC, Ohio St. and UFL. If we're going "toe to toe" with them, then we're obviously capable of winning the game. We were quite obviously capable of winning that game.

If I wasn't loyal, I wouldn't still be here talking about it and I wouldn't have paid $10 to watch what I had initially suspected would be a blowout. Just because our defense isn't showing up doesn't have any bearing on whether I will or not.

[jcmanson]

Guys hang in there. We've suffered so many heartbreaks in the last 2 years that it gets old. That's why some of us went overboard last night. Fact is, our guys were the better team last night. Better than a 1A team for 55 minutes. That speaks volumes for this team. The last thing we need to do is start criticizing the coaching staff. THey did all they could do last night to put us in a position to win and they did just that. It's up to the players to WIN the game. They didn't. They don't know how to yet. What will it take for them to learn how to win? I don't know. I hope we've had all the heartbreaks that we need to. I'm tired of them. I know the team and staff is as well. They didn't give up on the team, and we shouldn't either. I know we won't. Let's go Flames! Bring us home a Big South Championship!

[ALAFlamesFan]

Yes we went toe to toe with a bad D1-A team. Yes if our defense played better we would not have been put in a position to need a last second drive to win. Yes, brock did not play bad, he played like he always does.

Despite all the stuff that went on for 3 3/4 of the game the bottom line is we were in position to win the game at the end and we didn't close. We had the dominate running game and we did Toledo a big favor by not using it. We could have hit a big pass play if not for penalty but even if we completed it I would still be baffled by that call. With 3 1/2 minutes to go and no evidence that Toledo could stop Rashad I have to question the wisdom of going to the pass. It seemed like we panicked. That is what disappointed me. I am not crushed. It was a game we were "supposed to lose" and we almost pulled it out but the inability to close the game is something we are going to have to learn if we want to be champions of anything and we have not learned it yet. That is what is worriesome. That comes down to leadership and attitude. Who sets the tone on this team? Who says "Follow me, boys. We are going to win this one." It could be a coach, a QB, a RB, or pretty much anyone. It doesn't appear we have that winning attitude yet and until we do brace yourself for more games like this either against DI or Big South teams.

I am not saying we can't develop that killer instinct yet this season. I am just saying that as of right now we don't have it.

[PAmedic]

I won't apologize for what I said.

I said it, and I meant it.

Our coaches have done a great job so far turning around a 1-10 program that got completely stoned by UConn and W&M 2 yrs ago. Saturday morning if you had told me we'd be hanging around at the end, I'd have been delighted.

having said that- we were promised "good to great" this year and we aren't getting it. we won the first 58:14 minutes of that game and managed to lose.

we're good. At times. we're not great- not close to it.

and I truly believe the play calling last night cost us. Say what you will- for whatever reason, we went away from what was working- and it cost us.

To become "great" the coaching staff will need to make better decisions during games, and if the personnel is the problem here- then recruit better kids. No, its not easy- never said it was. Nor am I a coach. So feel free to ignore me. But as a financial supporter of the program- I take a personal interest in it. I also tend to get emotionally involved.

not sorry for either of those things- and STILL a FLAMES FAN!

[PAmedic]

PS: I'm sure my home-boy LIBERTINE is reading this stuff and thinks I'm a complete @#$%^&*

I still luv ya and still luv this team. If I didn't care- I wouldn't have sat in front of this stupid computer all night, annoying MrsPA with updates every 45 seconds. I'm still right there with you and the guys (and the coaches)

Just extremely disappointed after believing we really had a shot at a one or two loss season.

[ToTheLeft]

This is pathetic. And I'm talking about you guys.

You guys are the worst fans in the world. Sly should change the banner at the top to "Intense. Opinionated. Loyal...ish. Completely panicked at slightest provocation."

When Stevev is the voice of reason, you know you guys -- especially you, SJ and Medic -- have gone off the deep end. I give the Left kid some leeway b/c he's a freshman and doesn't yet know he's an idiot. We went toe to toe with a I-A -- something that hasn't happened in over a decade -- and you guys are pitching a bus party. You make me sad.

You guys let me know when your common sense reattaches and I'll talk to you then. In the meantime, I'm going to go find some VMI fans to refresh my sense of perspective.

We did go toe to toe with them, but we gave the game away to them the same way we've done two times before. No matter what level they play on, our same flaws (and name our defense) cost us the game. I don't care if we're playing a bunch all-Americans from USC, Ohio St. and UFL. If we're going "toe to toe" with them, then we're obviously capable of winning the game. We were quite obviously capable of winning that game.

If I wasn't loyal, I wouldn't still be here talking about it and I wouldn't have paid $10 to watch what I had initially suspected would be a blowout. Just because our defense isn't showing up doesn't have any bearing on whether I will or not.

Couldn't have said it better.

And I have never been more proud to be a Flame. WE played tough with a team we shouldn't have beat.

But it is still uber frustrating.

I was caught up in the emotions, as SJ said. And I feel we should have won, and shot ourselves in the foot. We are the only ones to blame.

And I'm not a freshman I'm a Junior transfer


So, anyone give me a ride to the Chuck game?

[jack_sparrow81]

Yall are completely insane. We would have lost this game by at least 40 two years ago. Were in a bottom feeder conference of AA and playing against a decent program in the MAC and yall are acting like a bunch of Florida fans after last night's lost. Did anyone honestly thing we had any chance last night?

[SuperJon]

Yall are completely insane. We would have lost this game by at least 40 two years ago. Were in a bottom feeder conference of AA and playing against a decent program in the MAC and yall are acting like a bunch of Florida fans after last night's lost. Did anyone honestly thing we had any chance last night?

I've thought we would win last night's game since it was scheduled.

[El Scorcho]

Did anyone honestly thing we had any chance last night?

Not until I watched the game. It was quite obvious while watching it that we had more than a chance.

It's hard to be happy about giving away that game. And we DID give it away.

I think you and RTF are mistaking criticisms of how we handled that game as statements on whether or not we support Liberty football. That's not right and it doesn't accurately portray how I feel at all.

So, don't keep doing that.

[FlamingChick]

that last pass Bolden sould have had. or definite interference call......

I agree AA. Bolden had the defender beat, but he had to slow down to get the ball or it would've been short. I really think it should've been a pass interference call, but of course I'm biased. It was really close between the time the defender pushed him and the time the ball touched his fingertips--but I think the push came first. Rocco yelled at the ref for it a little but it was a no-win situation...

[FlamingChick]

I am glad I have a couple years of school left. I want to see Mike Brown in these situations.

Yeah, I just hope they will have the same patience with him that they've had with Brock...

[thepostman]

I am with the ones you have questioned the coaching staff decision to go away from the running game...Our coaching staff has done one heck of a job improving this program, this is a game we would've gotten killed in a couple years ago...for that I give them credit...but Coach Rocco is still new at this head coaching thing, he is still learning and i firmly believe that has a lot to do with some questionable play calling...but if it continues for years it going to end up hurting us.....i am sick of saying, its just one game....we should've won this game, there is no way around that fact...I will keep supporting the team and keep on going to the games...but I do not believe there is anything wrong or unloyal about questioning the coaching staff