[hoopsmalone]

as for the "subjective"vs "objective" ranking approach, the u.s. news and world report does actually use important figures in its calcuations, particlarly retention and graduation rate, as well as several other factors. It's not written on a variety of trends and/or opinions that you might see in the other "rankings".

[hoopsmalone]

it also figures in sat/act average,student to faculty ration, % of freshman from to 10% of the their high school class,financial resources and alumni giving. I don't know of many other publications with such scrutinzing and objective qualifiers.

[El Scorcho]

I'm not sure anyone every mentioned subjective vs. objective in this thread. I just mentioned that the fact that anyone is even ranking schools has become quite the controversy. A lot of folks are of the impression that ranking schools may mean a potential student overlooks the right school for them, simply because USN&WR ranks them lower than another school. Let's not forget that for all of those statistics, a lot of college is about the "other stuff."

I'm not saying that to try and take away from Samford's ranking, believe me. I'm just bringing up the controversy because the rankings were mentioned. It's been covered by just about every major news outlet since this year's rankings came out.

[paradox]

Facinating conversation, hoops.


Please share with us: Why did you choose Liberty over Samford for grad school?



...

[paradox]

I'm not sure anyone every mentioned subjective vs. objective in this thread. I just mentioned that the fact that anyone is even ranking schools has become quite the controversy. A lot of folks are of the impression that ranking schools may mean a potential student overlooks the right school for them, simply because USN&WR ranks them lower than another school. Let's not forget that for all of those statistics, a lot of college is about the "other stuff."

I'm not saying that to try and take away from Samford's ranking, believe me. I'm just bringing up the controversy because the rankings were mentioned. It's been covered by just about every major news outlet since this year's rankings came out.

Also, it's important to keep in mind, that universities put out major league money in order to adjust, comply, and conform to a bunch of mostly unneccessary standards. The schools listed in the top-50 are historically the wealthiest institutions in the land (I'm talking about the big list that includes Princeton, Harvard, Hopkins, and Stanford---not to be confused with Sam-ford

The big list is the only one that anybody really cares about. Well, at least north of Birmingham, AL! Right, Hoops

[hoopsmalone]

Facinating conversation, hoops.


Please share with us: Why did you choose Liberty over Samford for grad school?



...

Wow- I hope I didn't give anyone the impression I went to ANY grad school, hahaha. (I'm not sure how anybody came to that conclusion) My final two college choices came down to Samford and Liberty. I opted for Samford because of it's solid academic reputation and I felt like God had opened the door for me to go there. The funny thing is, I was actually on my way back from your CFAW and I was in the Lynchburg Airport when my dad called and informed me that Samford had accepted me. I was elated and yelled "I got into Samford? No way!!" and I felt a little embarrassed because I had just told the Liberty rep, sitting next to me that I was wavering on my decision, but leaning toward liberty.I guess I just told him that because in my heart of hearts, I didn't think Samford was going to let me in. (Not to mention, my third choice, Mars Hill, just wasn't that enticing after my visit). It was odd because, the people at Liberty were nice, I just didn't feel like it was where I was supposed to be.

I was the epitome of an average to above average student. They really liked my essay and my high verbal score was (in relation to my intended major) and accepted me on probation status (I could only enroll for 12 hours first semester and had to keep in regular contact with an advisor).

The funny thing is, my old high school friend ended up going there and we both moved back to our hometown. He's my roommate now (no- it's not like chuck and larry ) and he's on here pretty often, discussing mid-major college sports very often, that's why I joined the board.

[hoopsmalone]

In response to the post about "the big list" as the only legtimate ranking.

Well, you also have to keep in mind that students aren't the only ones who use that list. I.E.- My brother is a professor at Yale, and if ever decided to look at another institution, he would probably use different sources, including U.S. News' guide, to see if it had legitimate research credentials, good resources, etc. Keep in mind, that the top 120 are equivlant to the top 3% of overall accredited national research/doctoral universities.
.I can honestly tell you, that Samford's consistent high rankings in U.S. News and the princeton rankings were VERY important factors in my decision between Samford and Liberty. I'm honestly not trying to brag when I say that, I'm just giving you my perspective/ retrospective.

[El Scorcho]

Interestingly enough, the local paper has an article on how LU, LC and Sweet Briar fared this year. Once again, LU was ranked in the Fourth Tier (bottom 25%), but this year Fourth Tier schools weren't assigned individual rankings. It sheds some more light on why the rankings are so controversial, especially this tidbit:

The rankings have been under increasing scrutiny in recent years by many who don’t believe in the validity of ranking colleges. The most controversial issue is the use of a peer reputation survey distributed among colleges. That determines 25 percent of a school’s score.

Also, the most relevant bit about LU:

In only the second year that Liberty has been included in the rankings, the school ranked in the fourth tier, or bottom 25 percent of universities with a master’s degree program.

Last year, LU also was in the bottom tier with a rank of 109. This year, the U.S. News is not assigning a rank to schools that aren’t in the top tier.
LU also was one of only three colleges nationwide profiled in the magazine last year, which the late Jerry Falwell Sr., who was then chancellor at the college, said was great for recruiting new students.

http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Sate ... 7772&path=

[hoopsmalone]

Interestingly enough, the local paper has an article on how LU, LC and Sweet Briar fared this year. Once again, LU was ranked in the Fourth Tier (bottom 25%), but this year Fourth Tier schools weren't assigned individual rankings. It sheds some more light on why the rankings are so controversial, especially this tidbit:

The rankings have been under increasing scrutiny in recent years by many who don’t believe in the validity of ranking colleges. The most controversial issue is the use of a peer reputation survey distributed among colleges. That determines 25 percent of a school’s score.

Also, the most relevant bit about LU:

In only the second year that Liberty has been included in the rankings, the school ranked in the fourth tier, or bottom 25 percent of universities with a master’s degree program.

Last year, LU also was in the bottom tier with a rank of 109. This year, the U.S. News is not assigning a rank to schools that aren’t in the top tier.
LU also was one of only three colleges nationwide profiled in the magazine last year, which the late Jerry Falwell Sr., who was then chancellor at the college, said was great for recruiting new students.

http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Sate ... 7772&path=

I don't see why you wouldn't put any validity in peer reputation survey. Of course some people, especially the ones who are a bit spurned, are going to be skeptical about rankings, that's just the nature of the beast, from BCS football debate to anything else. If I was liberty, I would be more concerned about improving the reputation by raising the standards, before I tried pointing out the flaws of the system.. (Which you may be doing alreadyl, I'm not sure). As a strong advocate of private edu over public edu., I've always believed that quality is FAR more important than quantity.

[El Scorcho]

I don't see why you wouldn't put any validity in peer reputation survey. Of course some people, especially the ones who are a bit spurned, are going to be skeptical about rankings, that's just the nature of the beast, from BCS football debate to anything else. If I was liberty, I would be more concerned about improving the reputation by raising the standards, before I tried pointing out the flaws of the system.. (Which you may be doing alreadyl, I'm not sure). As a strong advocate of private edu over public edu., I've always believed that quality is FAR more important than quantity.

If you had read the entire article you would know that the criticism of the system was NOT coming from LU. It was actually coming from Julius Sigler, who is a Vice President and the Dean of Academic Affairs at Lynchburg College. (Which was actually ranked as a top-tier school.) I just excerpted that particular quote to highlight part of what people are being so critical of.

If I were you, I wouldn't go around using too many more "If I was Liberty..." lines without doing a little more reading. No one at LU criticized the rankings in this article or otherwise. We're quite pleased to be ranked at all, versus years gone by where they didn't even give us that.

[hoopsmalone]

If you had read the entire article you would know that the criticism of the system was NOT coming from LU. It was actually coming from Julius Sigler, who is a Vice President and the Dean of Academic Affairs at Lynchburg College. (Which was actually ranked as a top-tier school.) I just excerpted that particular quote to highlight part of what people are being so critical of.

If I were you, I wouldn't go around using too many more "If I was Liberty..." lines without doing a little more reading. No one at LU criticized the rankings in this article or otherwise. We're quite pleased to be ranked at all, versus years gone by where they didn't even give us that.

For the record, I know that it wasn't liberty. I wasn't referring to the article, I referring to some of the criticism i have seen from other users on the board, regarding this topic.

P.S.Iif I were you ,I wouldn't tell me not to tell you "if I was liberty" Sorry, I couldn't resist

[El Scorcho]

For the record, I know that it wasn't liberty. I wasn't referring to the article, I referring to some of the criticism i have seen from other users on the board, regarding this topic.

If you were referring to a user on this board, then why did you say Liberty? To say Liberty implies that Liberty is making the criticism. Next time just call out the person(s) you disagree with.

[SuperJon]

Why have we spent 35 posts talking about Samford? Why does anyone here care about them?

[paradox]

Until I read his recent post, I just assumed that he was an LU grad student who happened to be a samford grad, but as it turns out, this guy has no apparent association with LU and he keeps posting all of this samford stuff

This guy's either got some kind of LU envy or he's completely out of his gourd


....

[paradox]

The college rankings are nice if you're Princeton or Harvard and you get to be #1 or #2 every year. Other than that, I didn't know that anybody else actually paid attention. And then, all of the sudden, a guy from "Hankinson Country" gets on an LU-fan website, and starts posting, "yipee, we're #120!"

I'm sure that in the mind of hoops, Samford is somehow mystically elevated above LU is some kind of imagined competition of Christian universities. The reality is that there really is no competition as LU is nationally known and is constantly expanding. Most people have heard of LU and have a concept as to what it represents. I'm not so sure if samford rings much of a bell outside of the birmingham, alabama region.

So, I guess it must be LU-envy.

...

[hoopsmalone]

Wow, I leave for an afternoon jog and return to this nonsense. Maybe if you actually read my earlier post , you would see why I originally started posting on here, but of course, that would require too much effort. To repeat- 1.My roommate is a liberty alum and he'sconstantly on this board because he uses my computer, so i thought i would throw my two cents in, while this thing is up on my screen every day. 2. liberty was one of my final two choices for undergrad. I chose samford for its academic reputation (Which I read about in publications such as Princeton Review and U.S. News) and its vast resources. 3. This started out as a post where i was just showing some pics of our new arena, because i know we have a similar U, one of your members on here asked more, and I told him about it.
On samford's sports board, we regularly have comments and news about other 1AA schools (Stadium upgrades, major renovations, etc.) from other fans of mid-major fans from throughout out conference and throught the south. (Furman, Wofford, Davidson, Elon, Jacksonville State, Troy, West Alabama etc.) We don't tell them they're jealous, instead, we enjoy the conversation and talk about college athletics/ the college scene in general.
However, just to appease all of you who think i have some kind of vendetta against Liberty, i'll just go ahead and tell you, yesyou're right. You all got me- i'm desperateley envious of liberty university and i lose sleep at night over how well known your university is compared to mine.

[paradox]

This is getting weird

I'm gonna go with totally out of his gourd, along with at least a small dose of LU-envy

[hoopsmalone]

hey, i was only talking about a subject that fell under NON LU-SPORTS and for some reason the criticism came flying, so don't be pointing fingers in my direction. For the sanity of EVERYONE on this board, I suggest that this be the last post of this thread. I can only take so many misinterpretations in one post

[paradox]

Good for you, hoops. Way to stand up for yourself.




Again, hoops, thanks for the riveting conversation and the very insightful commentary.

You go, girl.


...

[El Scorcho]

hey, i was only talking about a subject that fell under NON LU-SPORTS and for some reason the criticism came flying, so don't be pointing fingers in my direction. For the sanity of EVERYONE on this board, I suggest that this be the last post of this thread. I can only take so many misinterpretations in one post

You're the one who got defensive.

You're also the one who brought up Samford on the LU board...again.

[hoopsmalone]

hey, i was only talking about a subject that fell under NON LU-SPORTS and for some reason the criticism came flying, so don't be pointing fingers in my direction. For the sanity of EVERYONE on this board, I suggest that this be the last post of this thread. I can only take so many misinterpretations in one post

You're the one who got defensive.

You're also the one who brought up Samford on the LU board...again.

I know, how DARE i mention a team besides Liberty on the NON-LU SPORTS thread I must say, I think my favorite part of the thread was when somebody claimed that stastics are FAR FROM being objective.

END OF THREAD

[paradox]

Ladies and gentlemen, mister hoops malone!

His brother is a prof from Yale! And that's no BS.

Thanks again, mister malone for stopping by.

Once again, riveting, engrossing, mind-boggling coversation.

Hooooooooooooooops Malooooooooone!

You betcha!

[paradox]

Hoops,



It's not that we don't like ya, or your school, or even good 'ol ala-bammy for that matter. It's just that the combination of the words "hoops" and "Samford" kinda brings back a not so good aftertaste of the Mel Hankinson variety

[PAmedic]

you're right, HOOPS. It's "mind-boggling" to think that a rankings system- 1/4 of the value of which is derived from RIVAL INSTITUTIONS' OPINIONS OF YOUR SCHOOL - may be a tad less than totally objective.

nimrod.

(now preparing for whining about the denegration of this thread into "personal attacks" or "name calling" ; hey- walks like a duck, quacks like a duck- must be a HOOPS)

gonna be a fun night for Mr. Sparrow

[El Scorcho]

I know, how DARE i mention a team besides Liberty on the NON-LU SPORTS thread.

Yeah, if you just happened to be posting about Samford just this once, I'd say I was being ridiculous. However, it's all you talk about...on a site dedicated to LU athletics. Maybe you need to start a Samford message board? I mean, one comment (or thread) once in a while is okay, but you're pretty Samford centric. It'd be like me going over to a JMU board and posting about LU with 99% of my comments. No one at JMU cares about LU unless we have an upcoming athletic matchup (and maybe not even then). We're not in the same conference. We only have a loose relation via proximity and that's about it. We're about as loosely related with Samford, and we do not care.