[Sly Fox]

They appear a little slow to catch onto things up in Alaska:

Liberty backs out of the Shootout
COSTLY: Flames pay the $50,000 contract buyout to withdraw from tourney.

By ANDREW HINKELMAN
ahinkelman@adn.com

Published: August 9, 2007
Last Modified: August 9, 2007 at 03:59 AM

Liberty University has backed out of this year's Great Alaska Shootout, making the Flames the fourth team to shun Anchorage's Thanksgiving college basketball tournament.

Liberty joins Yale, Xavier and Washington State as teams who have paid the $50,000 buyout clause to get out of their Shootout commitment. The Flames were originally signed to replace Yale.

Click Here for Full Story

[TallyW]

He's ticked.

I can understand his perspective but I can also see where RMc would want to make the change and not wait a year to put a schedule in place that benefits his club in it's efforts to improve.

[LUconn]

man, $50,000 seems like it would be a lot to our school. I hope it was worth it. You'd think with Dutton being such a celeb in Alaska that they'd get his name right.

They will play San Diego State, host Fresno State and Portland. The tournament also includes Kentucky, George Mason and Virginia Tech.

What? Is our schedule one giant tournament?

[PAmedic]

wow. what a whiner.

smacks of a complete lack of professionalism.

you don't see that kind of hissy fit coming from a DI administrator too often.

glad we're not associated with it.

[TIMSCAR20]

wow. what a whiner.

smacks of a complete lack of professionalism.

you don't see that kind of hissy fit coming from a DI administrator too often.

glad we're not associated with it.

Alaska Anchorage is DII. They are good people for the most part though. I can see their frustration with trying to hold people to commitments. You can't plan a wedding then have 5 groomsmen back out a few weeks before the big day. That would be frustrating. I understand why RMK backed out but if you have 4 teams back out of your tournament over a few months, you would be steaming too.

[PAmedic]

wow. what a whiner.

smacks of a complete lack of professionalism.

you don't see that kind of hissy fit coming from a DI administrator too often.

glad we're not associated with it.

Alaska Anchorage is DII. They are good people for the most part though. I can see their frustration with trying to hold people to commitments. You can't plan a wedding then have 5 groomsmen back out a few weeks before the big day. That would be frustrating. I understand why RMK backed out but if you have 4 teams back out of your tournament over a few months, you would be steaming too.

gotcha.

and now I'm REALLY glad we backed out.

[grm]

They appear a little slow to catch onto things up in Alaska:

Yeah, I guess they are a little slow on the uptake, since I posted the buyout on May 24th. (Sorry that I was $5,000 high on the price, thinking it was $55k). I don't care for Jeff Barber for a host of reasons, but he does seem to be able to get money when he wants it. He blasted Randy for budget concerns, but Randy & his staff could not get requisitions filled. Now, money is available for raises, buyouts, and upgrades. It's a good situation for the athletic department - having the money - that is.

[LUconn]

You're so funny grm. I do find this buyout to be a bit of a waste of money. I'd rather be playing in this tourney with new fencing around The Bill. Or 100% functional seats in the Vines.

[El Scorcho]

He blasted Randy for budget concerns, but Randy & his staff could not get requisitions filled.

Wow. Let it go, man.

[thepostman]

He blasted Randy for budget concerns, but Randy & his staff could not get requisitions filled.

Wow. Let it go, man.

I second that....this happens almost everywhere a new athletic director takes over...unless a program is overly successful you can expect the new guy to look deep into changing things and hiring the guy he wants...its the way DI college athletics work...get over it

[LUveteran]

i dont know if anyone else in the past has worked with these type of tournaments, but, consider the contract signed with the Fresno tourney..might be a bigger check than the buyout they just payed. If Liberty recieves 60k to play at Fresno...then it is not such a big deal. Im not claiming "insider" info, but i would imagine they didnt take a big hit or even a hit at all on this move. In the early 90's programs were getting as much as 40k to play in such tournaments whereas teams must pay for the likes of a Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Alaska ect..

[LUconn]

ahh, that's a good thought. And it would make sense why that guy was whining about the buyout price.

[grm]

He blasted Randy for budget concerns, but Randy & his staff could not get requisitions filled.

Wow. Let it go, man.

El Scorcho, you've been a decent guy, & that's appreciated.

On May 24th, you said to me, "Criticize all you like..."

Try to remember the following, if you so desire:

1. Although you sanctioned criticism to whatever degree I wanted, I've been fairly restrained in those criticisms, especially
when considering how my guy was trashed by a few FlameFans when he was in place.

2. While the events distressing to me took place several months ago, (just over 5 months ago - RD fired on Feb 28th) they
are events that will probably remain fresh in my mind for the rest of my life. (I would think that each of us on FlameFans
have things that are "etched" on our brains). You probably do too - and this is one of mine.

Beyond this, and to the matter at hand, if we made money on the pullout/entry process, then financially it was a great decision. And then even beyond that, if the ethical standards among major universities permits this kind of behavior, then, once again, there's no big deal. At the time I posted that we were pulling out of the shootout, pretty much everybody was touting the Shootout as a great thing... chance to see what TJ could do, TV exposure, etc., etc., but once we were out, it seemed that everybody's opinion changed - and that's o.k. too.

I'm fine, & am not on the verge of a mental breakdown. Probably a lot of us here on this site are half decent athletes/ex-athletes, and probably most of us have a strong competitive nature/edge. I'm no different.

[LUconn]

1. Although you sanctioned criticism to whatever degree I wanted, I've been fairly restrained in those criticisms, especially
when considering how my guy was trashed by a few FlameFans when he was in place.

It's a piranna effect. People like to pile on and not look at the big picture. Replacing a coach is an ugly business and your "side" happened to be on the wrong end of it. Flamefans will ultimately side with the school. Because really we have no choice if we want to keep being fans.

2. While the events distressing to me took place several months ago, (just over 5 months ago - RD fired on Feb 28th) they
are events that will probably remain fresh in my mind for the rest of my life. (I would think that each of us on FlameFans
have things that are "etched" on our brains). You probably do too - and this is one of mine.

I know you didn't like how things went down. But again, there's 2 sides to the story and of course your version will have the slant that leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I mean look at the whole Dunton/Meyer thing. It was apparently very "contraversial", you're just on the opposite end of the stick. I just don't see how you can continue to be a fan of LU athletics with such disdain for the AD. You'd either have to let it go or wait him out. And JB is probably going to be here for a very very long time (unless he get a better gig).

Beyond this, and to the matter at hand, if we made money on the pullout/entry process, then financially it was a great decision. And then even beyond that, if the ethical standards among major universities permits this kind of behavior, then, once again, there's no big deal. At the time I posted that we were pulling out of the shootout, pretty much everybody was touting the Shootout as a great thing... chance to see what TJ could do, TV exposure, etc., etc., but once we were out, it seemed that everybody's opinion changed - and that's o.k. too.

yeah, that again is just a fan's nature. We're not a realistic bunch.

[grm]

I have no problem with anything you said.

I'm still on the board, and still "on board." And as far as that "better gig" you mentioned - well, I'll just leave that one alone.


[/quote]

....And JB is probably going to be here for a very very long time (unless he get a better gig).

[TIMSCAR20]

I do know for a fact that they Liberty made way more money by pulling out of this tourney and paying the fee. The guarantees received from fresno and Kentucky more than make up for the 50 K buyout. It was actually a win in terms of finances for Liberty.

[TIMSCAR20]

Also I have information that tells me that Liberty Administration was looking to pull out of this tournament before RMK was hired.

[grm]

Again... I'm glad they made money. And I don't doubt at all that Administration wanted to pull out. To a great degree, Barber's fortunes rise or fall with RMK's.

[El Scorcho]

El Scorcho, you've been a decent guy, & that's appreciated.

Well, thanks, but I'm actually aware that I'm a bit of curmudgeon. You can say so, if you'd like.

On May 24th, you said to me, "Criticize all you like..."

Well, that probably was meant to be rhetorical, but you absolutely can. I'm just being critical of what you chose to criticize.

To a great degree, Barber's fortunes rise or fall with RMK's.

Maybe. He also has a lot riding on Rocco and Toman, though. I do think it could be argued that Men's Basketball is potentially (or already should have been) the highest profile sport at the school, but if Rocco and Toman are both highly successful I think JB is still in good shape. Having said that, I've got season tickets for basketball for the first time in five years of being on staff. So, RMK already has that going for him at least.

[jcmanson]

I'm sorry but I don't think Rocco's success or failure should be linked to Barber. Barber didn't make that hire, Jerry did. Barber came in after Rocco was hired. Toman and McKay, yes, that's on Barber.

[El Scorcho]

I understand that he didn't make that hire, but all of the changes and hype surrounding the football program have been a part of the Barber era. For better or for worse, he's married to Dr. Falwell's hire. I don't think he has a problem with that, though.

[paradox]

I'm certainly not afraid to admit that I appreciate Dunton and everything that he did to reestablish this program.

Having said that, I'd like to give my two cents on the so-called "Barber-Dunton" controversy. Unfortunately for RD, he seemingly passed over one very important item: he under-valued his relationship with his AD and in the process overlooked the potential consequences of that action. Had he been an "elite coach" he would have gotten away with it, but "decent" doesn't quite cut it, if you're going to take the approach that RD did. And I can certainly understand JB's position regarding the whole ordeal.

You really can't blame Barber for what he did. If any of us were in his shoes, we'd probally do the same. JB did the right thing, and LU certainly landed on its feet with Ritchie McKay, who is a bona fide upgrade and a consummate professional as both a leader and a coach.

[SuperJon]

It probably didn't help him that he was trying to get people in the athletic department fired, that no one in the community wanted to support him (monetarily), that people in coaching circles loved coaching against him because he couldn't adjust in-game, and all that.

[thepostman]

I am impressed Dox...great post...

and SJ...though your post made me laugh...let it go...haha

[paradox]

As always, you seem to have a need to embellish the matter.

Being as judgmental as you are about this, indicates that you're missing the human side of the issue as you fail to recognize that you are just as capable of making similiar mistakes in the professional context. Of course, you'll have to actually obtain a professional position in order to even have an opportunity to make such a mistake