[Guest]

MMMM, nice place you got around here. Alot better than the other board. I will admit that I did not follow the flames at all this year. Oh, I tried. Watch a game here, keep track of the scores, but after the last year of disappointment in the first round it just wasn't the same.... I honestly made the prediction that the men would do better than the women this year (ask SCAR, he'll tell ya cause he's the one who called me crazy), but I obviously was wrong. I don't know if it is because my Pistons are doing so well that I ignore the Flames, the last year of Seminary keeping me busy, or that I'm a pathetic fan who can't take the lows with the highs. I really thought our men could do better. A co-worker here in the seminary asked me, "Why is there such dicotomy in our sports programs... you're either really good or really bad." I just don't know.....

[TDDance234]

In any mid-to-low major MBB teams, you're going to have a down year or two. We lost a lot of talent on our MBB team from last season and had to replace them with tranfers or walk-ons. It's the same for any program, with few exceptions (ie; Gonzaga, Charlotte, etc..) who build OUT of the "mid-major" mold.

[PAmedic]

gee, the seminary is lucky to have you. Quite the optimist!

[TIMSCAR20]

My esteemed guest is a former registered Firehouse member. Man you need to get registered over here and join in on the fun. I know you are living off of the highs that the Pistons have given you over the past few years but you need to accept the Detroit Lions side of life as well. We had a Lions type of year in MBB but the Piston like days are coming IMO. We definitely have a couple of "Bad Boys" on their way and next year we will "Rip" the nets...(Ok, enough of the Piston analogies I think you get it). Anyway, I think what I was saying to you is that the women would still win a lot of games and that without a proven comodity in the post, our guys would struggle. I admit, it was tough to suffer through this season but it will be better when things get turned around.

[D Edcil]

Without a "But - Monkey" can we say this was a HORRIBLE year? There was more rationalization and finger pointing then solutions. If these "bad apples" were so bad, why were they allowed to remain on the team? Lute Olsen jettisoned one until he got his act straight, why not here? There are two big myths I gues I did not/have not bought into, and perhaps that is why I share the sentiment of this post. 1. Rebuilding?? Are you kidding me? Look across the hall, I think the women DEF. lost more talent then the men did, but if I am not mistaken, they won the Big South again. If we had gone to the tournament and had a stinker year then you can make the "rebuilding case". But we finished second, and lost in the first round of the BST. 2. Bad Apples. Weren't we told that is what happened LAST YEAR? Then who are these bad apples? New ones? I have always thought that if you want TRUE student support then your team should be held to a higher standard. I thnk if we were undermanned b/c we jettisoned a few people either not following LU guidelines or a detriment to the team the students would support THAT!
I don't know. I do not share the naked enthusiasm of most on this board. I am about ready to set an appointment with a therapist, b/c I keep hearing Mel Hanky flashbacks. "We have a GREAT recruiting class coming in..", " We are getting rid of some players that will make us better....." , "The players played hard but just didn't get on the same page as the coaching staff..", "Sure our RPI is in the 300's but in bowling that is a good thing" (Ok so I made that one up, but you get the point.) I will be carmudgenly and wait to be impressed.

[Sly Fox]

D Edcil - You need to officially join some of us in the Old Hag club.

You bring up valid questions that we all have thought about at one point or another. But I think most of would prefer to give Coach D the benefit of the doubt based on the prior three seasons.

Perhaps you should read Joel Osteen's book. It might give you a new perspective on life in general as you turn that frown upside down.

[Stevev]

D Edcil, I share in you disgust and disallusionment about this whole season. I lost interest after the first game of the season with these guys when they were bombed by Virginia. But as usual I did give the team a chance after that. But losses to Longwood, Mt St Mary's, and Lipsomb and I said "screw these bums". Maybe the women's team has kind of got me spoiled. Call me a "bandwagon fan" if you want but these guys didn't hold my interest at all. I am a little concerned about the future of the team since it seems to hinge on a select few players coming in. But I guess Dunton should get another year to make up for this season just to prove us wrong.

[Sly Fox]

I wouldn't call you a bandwagoner, steve. You may be disgusted but you do keep following the team. For that applaud you even if you might find yourself slightly on the pessimistic side.

[TDDance234]

I don't think comparing the MBB to WBBs team is a fair comparison.

In terms of the Big South, the talent dropoff after Liberty and High Point is staggering. In terms of all of WBB, it's ridiculous. After your top 15-20 teams, the talent gets extremely thin.

When you look at MBB, the quality of play in the Big South is growing and teams are getting better, quicker. Of course, we'll have to keep track but we more than losing talent inside, we lost quality bodies to eat up space. With all due respect to Eck and Bigby, they both played out of position and were probably a little culture-shocked as they realized division 1 is a little different than JuCo -- and battling guys twice their size. The only other options inside were Russell (who stunk, badly) and putting Rell on the inside, where he was incredibly undersized.

The additions of McClean and Baker will provide an instant upgrade to this team, IMO. If anything, to add muscle to the interior defense and upgrade our offensive rebounding.

[D Edcil]

TDD - Actually, it is a GREAT comparison. In terms of basketball, both men's and women's the BSC is not great. I have seen high level high school games that can compare to the bottom dwellers in the BSC on the men's and women's side. The point is, the women lost several GREAT players, and they still win. Back in the day they lost "The Twins" and Elena, yet still won. Change in head coaches,still win. Now they lose Katie and Dina et al, yet they still win. On the men's side, we have YET to be successful based on the head coaches own words. We are closer to the bottom 50 then the Top 50. The men lose players and it was because they were "bad apples". We get excuses from everything ranging from the administraion to the officials. PLEASE. I am so tired of hearing "We need to be accountable" yet nothing is done. We are not a good team, and have not been for quite awhile. Absolutely, we had the cup of coffee at the Dance and that was great, but what have we done in tournaments since? How many times have we won the conference? How many times have we won or even been in the championship game of the tournament? Yes I gave RD the benefit of the doubt when he came in. Heck, he manipulated his way to this point for years, and I thought "What better motivator?". Now he has had free reign and the era of giving HIM the benefit of the doubt is over. We hear about progress but where is it? Are we better now then the beginning of the year? Are we better now then RD's first year? Have we shown CONSISTENT improvment in recruiting, wins, RPI, Graduation, retention, etc. The answer is no. Is RD on the hot seat. Absolutely not. He has 2 or 3 more years before that happens. (Heck look at KK in FB!) In my mind, it is time for the MBB team and staff to put their money where their mouth is and show on the floor and in the classroom what they talk about all the time. I am willing to be "won" back, but we haven't had too many of those recently!

[fsn32]

I agree with the fact that women's and men's basketball at this level are getting closer. TD's argument was true 10 years ago... not as much today. The Big South has gotten much better on the women's side (13th in the RPI, ahead of Conf. USA and WAC)

There is still a gap... but it is smaller now and you see many more upsets of Top 25 teams than in times past.

It may not be fair to compare our men's and women's team categorically but you could use Winthrop's men and our women in the same breath. They have had similar runs.

[LUconn]

Disloyal, disillusioned, and disgusted
I will admit that I did not follow the flames at all this year
I will be carmudgenly and wait to be impressed.
I share in you disgust and disallusionment
I lost interest after the first game of the season
I said "screw these bums"
these guys didn't hold my interest at all

Fans like you guys are not THE problem but you are big parts of it. If I'm good at basketball, why on earth would I want to come here? A Christian education? I can get that tons of places. I'd rather go to a school where the fans cared about the players and teams instead of throwing me in the gutter when I'm not meeting their expectations. I will call you a bandwagoner stevev, because that's exactly what you are.

[thesportscritic]

Disloyal, disillusioned, and disgusted
I will admit that I did not follow the flames at all this year
I will be carmudgenly and wait to be impressed.
I share in you disgust and disallusionment
I lost interest after the first game of the season
I said "screw these bums"
these guys didn't hold my interest at all

Fans like you guys are not THE problem but you are big parts of it. If I'm good at basketball, why on earth would I want to come here? A Christian education? I can get that tons of places. I'd rather go to a school where the fans cared about the players and teams instead of throwing me in the gutter when I'm not meeting their expectations. I will call you a bandwagoner stevev, because that's exactly what you are.

When you don't win and you lose to some of these scrub teams you lose interest. Bottom line is we stunk it up all season. This team only had one maybe three decent players and we had no post. Heck Post play was non existent.

[LUconn]

How can you call yourself a fan? Or do you? I've been a Bengals fan since I was 5. Since I lived in CT I was able to see maybe 1 game per year if I was lucky, but I still followed the team and kept track of stats despite being the "worst team of the 90s". If I lived there, I'd have gone to games as well. We had some of the worst coaches, players and the worst owner/GM in the league. Sure I had tons of critisism, but I never stopped cheering. I'm tooting my own horn here, but that's what a fan does. They don't lose interest after 1 game and say "screw these guys". ESPECIALLY student athletes !

[Stevev]

I am just trying to be upfront and honest about the way I feel about this situation. I know my opinion holds less weight that some of you that have more connections and are closer to the team than I am but just want to share my disappointment as a loyall (but somewhat disgruntled) fan. I think that I have earned that right on this board. I feel with all the talk that LU admin does and with all the infrastructure in place we are a lot better than what was shown out there on the hardwood. The walk just doesn't quite match the talk right now.

[LUconn]

But you're not loyal, and that's the problem. Everything I've read from you in this forum suggests that you are not loyal. Hoping good things for the team is not being loyal.

I'm disappointed too. There are things I would have done different if I were coach. But monday morning arm chair quarterbacking is a far cry away from being a gametime coach. We were not good this year and all of the excuses in the world don't make it any better. But if you can't even give the team your support, which is what they need at the very least, than you might as well be cheering on some other program in the Big South.

[grm]

We can state our opinions, even if they hurt, but I wouldn't even title a post this way. I would be ashamed of myself for doing it.

[MDIVIVVY]

Um, to be quite honest, it was me that posted the topic (thought I was logged in, still haven't apparently gotten the hang of the new site) I guess that I'm just spoiled. My Dad raised me a U-M fan so I watched some great football and when I was growing up we had two years of the "Fab Five." As for being an optomist PA, if you read, you'll see that I predicted the men would do better than the women - how's that for optomism? I guess I wouldn't mind the bad years if they weren't so, I don't know, BAD. Maybe the problem for me is that there seems to be on my part no expectation. Every year I expect Michigan to win all it's FB games. Do I guess disappointed, yes, but I watch. It's not the same here. Granted, I don't expect our teams to do anything nationally, but I wish that they would be competitve. I just don't have the same "renewal of hope" every year with the Flames teams that I do with my other teams. If you want to call me a fair-weather fan, I take no offense at that. I think it probably is accurate to a point. Last year I had hope for the Basket ball team because of what we did the year before. I even had some hope, albeit lowered, this year, but they just stunk. There's no two ways around it. They were not very competitve in their confrence, which is where they need to excel.

[MDIVIVVY]

Um, you'd be ashamed on how you honestly feel? I guess it just goes to show how "disloyal, disillusioned, and disgusted" I really am. Least I'm not stooping to titles such as "the Men's basketball team - just awful or predictable?" Not that anyone here would do that, but I'm trying to honestly share my feelings in the hopes that someone out there could maybe set me straight. I mean, who wants to be disgusted about talking about thier alumnus basketball and football team?

[Stevev]

How can anyone who is loyal to LU athletics not be disgruntled considering the performance of our football and men's basketball teams this year. Those are the 2 "money sports" aren't they. Those 2 sports make or break our reputation. Totally embarrassing to experience this in the same year.

[Sly Fox]

I don't think it is productive to be questioning anyone's loyalty. But the fact that anyone is here posting shows they care about the program.

[Stevev]

Right on Sly. Anyone who is not at least a little disgrunted right now simply doesn't care about the program

[jcmanson]

I agree with you as well sly. It is realistic to be disgruntled right now. I don't think any of us expected us to finish 8th in the league, and not just that, we were badly beaten several times. So it is reality that we are disgruntled. However, we need to be careful with what we say and how we say it while we are dissapointed because our words could very easily come out wrong.

[MDIVIVVY]

geez, was what I posted really that offensive? C'mon.

[grm]

O.K. Here is from Webster:

Disgust: a sickening distaste or dislike; deep aversion; repugnance
(aversion is essentially "a turning away")

And as far as "disloyal" - we think of Benedict Arnold.

I would not want to characterize myself as such in reference to the highest level Christian university basketball program in the world, no matter who was coaching it, or how poorly they had performed during the season. I give them (it) more respect than that.

As I said before, speaking for myself only, I would not think of enititling a thread that way, and yes, I'll stick by my statement that
it is something that I would be ashamed to do. Thank God for free speech, and this is an open forum, with proper etiquette required, so, if you feel that way, have at it. I honestly do not feel that way.

Count me Loyal, Disappointed, but Supportive