[TallyW]

Pillow fights and slip N slides will happen no matter what school you attend. I'd imagine under the right circumstances (i.e. a water hose in the dorm) even Florida State University would fine their students for that. It comes with college.

In all respect SJ, I don't know that questions of Monopoly relate to the topic of this thread. I'm still interested in hearing thoughts about how LU can recruit the talent necessary to succeed in football and basketball ($ sports).

[SuperJon]

Tally, you keep saying LU is such a young university. To go along with that statement, I'm going to make another comparison to Coastal. In 1962, Coastal had 162 students and moved onto their current campus. Coastal didn't become a 4 year school until 1974, three years after LU was started by Dr. Falwell. The first dorms didn't appear on campus until 1987. In 1990, the shcool finally reached 4000 students. Coastal didn't become an independent university until 1993. In 2001, the school reached 5000 students. In only one year, Coastal was up to 5800 students. In 2005, there were 7600 students. In 5 years, the school had grown by more than 150%.

I'm giving you those facts because I don't by into your "We're such a young school" excuse, nor do I buy into the, "We're having problems because we're growing so much" excuse.

The reason Coastal and LU is a valid comparison is because they're relatively the same age, they're a conference opponent, and are funded closely the same (Coastal's the least funded public university in SC).

[SuperJon]

I'm still interested in hearing thoughts about how LU can recruit the talent necessary to succeed in football and basketball ($ sports).

Give them something to freaking do while they're not practicing. That's my whole point. We'll always get students here because LU is a good school. However, to "steal" a recruit from a bigger school or a state school, we're going to have to give these athletes something to do while they're not practicing.

[Brokeback Flamer]

This just in - I stand corrected, it was UNC - C was talking about, I got the C and G confused. ALthough I have fond memories of G......... I can't beleive you don't know what BubBLES means!! What a sheltered young person you are HMO

Did some one say Slip In Slide!!! I am in!!!

TALLY I don't think the point of DE was to say the university CAN'T get there. But he can speak for himself...

SJ you make a great point. Little things mean alot. I have always thought that the VINES should be hosting at least 2 concerts a month. it is a good size venue, although accustics aren't great, and it would be a great thing for the students. I bet they would be even willing to put some of their own cash into it to see some great Christian bands. Cable IS now considered "Basic". Co - Ed spaces are always a plus, for some people I guess SJ i commend you for your attempt w/the AD and hope it works. THAT is the kind of spirit that will turn LU around

And in the words of Joe Pesci "Am I here to amuse you? Am I a ........ clown?" LOL Love that movie!

[SuperJon]

Schilling would be great for shows. Something along the lines of The Evan Anthem, Last Tuesday, etc would draw a good crowd and would be a good show. We don't have to have giant concerts with Third Day or whatever. Leave those for CFAW weekends. Up and coming Christian bands would probably love to play at a campus of 11,000 students who most are presumed to be Christians.

[TallyW]

Thanks for making one of my points SJ:

Coastal started 9 years earlier
Coastal is STATE funded
Coastal still has over 2,000 LESS students
Coastal only sleeps 2,000 on campus

Most importantly, you left Coastal. Let it go... it's in the past. Move on... embrace all that is good about your new school

[SuperJon]

You're right Tally. LU is the greatest university in the world. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Nothing should be changed. We can bring in 4 star recruits right now.



You're a freaking idiot if you believe any of that.

[TallyW]

Am I under your skin SJ?

I just point out the statistics and you call names without reading half of what I wrote in the last 3 posts. I repeat (for the 4th or 5th time)... from a few posts back... I believe I clearly stated what my position has been all along. It's not hard to see. It's just that you're getting frustrated and not thinking through everything... it's "Fire, Ready, Aim?" with you.... Like an answering machine, here it is...

"My position is that LU has enough infastructure to serve as a foundation for successful growth. Others' positions are that the school is in shambles and cannot possibly advance. I just happen to think they're bonkers for thinking that considering all that LU has become in a short 35 years. To most of us 35 years is a long time and LU should be further along... but in reality LU is still a school on the rise and is setting itself up to be a great school and a University that can be competetive at all levels of sport and education. Will it be a few years? Sure. Are there things to improve? Sure. But the question is not these. The question is do we have enough to build on and make this school known in the next 15 years. I say yes. Others say no. It's simple."

[SeoulFlame]

I bothers me a little when student know full well what they are getting into when they CHOOSE to come to LU, then complain about it (facilities, rule, money, etc.) Come on! If there were so many issues when you CHOSE to look at LU why did you come. Many of us on this board have seen some amazing things happen at LU and came to LU not because of the reasons you are disscussing on this thread. I think we should let this discussions die. My 2 cents!

[Hold My Own]

Brokeback you need help man!

SJ, I know it seems like everyone is on your back...the biggest mistake you made was not living on campus for at least a semester...that's my opinion, even though I understand its different then you've been used to....I don't honestly think you mean to sound negative and I think you have the best intentions with all of your comments, although it does seem like you are negative towards the school in some aspects & even the students for that matter....but I know it's tough and I went through one semester where it was Hell on earth for me and I had so many personal problems no body would ever understand...but if this is where you feel like you need and want to be then make the most of it, b/c these are the best years of our life and I already regret not living my first 3 years to the fullest....but to each their own!!!

[D Edcil]

You're right Tally. LU is the greatest university in the world. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Nothing should be changed. We can bring in 4 star recruits right now.



You're a freaking idiot if you believe any of that.

I got nothing but love for ya SJ, not that it will help your cause. You are just pointing out things that others don't or are afraid too. I feel you bring a realistic look into what is going on. I think neither you or I feel that LU is a worthless place to be, but I don't think we are making our points well apparently. In my mind 2 things give your comments added credibility. The first being you have come from somewhere else. You see what ELSE there is out there and don't compare LU with it's "Past" or "Future" but against a competitor of roughly equal stature. 2) You are not just sitting here complaining,, you are actually doing something about it. You have seen a need with the athletics and are doing what YOU can to make it better.
On my own tangent, this seems to be an us and them mentality in this discussion. I know I have brought up some points that LU is doing well and some ideas on what can be done to correct them. (Heck SJ is actually the only one DOING anything about it) but what is missing from the other side is the flip side of the quesiton"
If LU has all the great stuff that TALLY et al think/feel/believe/know it has, then whey AREN'T top tielr Christian Athletes crashing down the doors to get in? That may be a more constructive route to take this discussion.

Keep plugging along SJ, and only be worried if Brokeback starts creeping around!

[TallyW]

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

A straw man argument is what we have here folks:
The question at hand is whether or not LU can BECOME a school where solid Christian athletes would attend.

Some of our friends (who at present equal 2 people with a total combined LU exposure as a student of ohh... 1/2 a semester) present an argument about why haven't quality players come before. The issue at hand isn't that myself, HMO, Seoul Flame all believe LU should have attracted the top atheletes in the past... the issue at hand was "Are we primed to make some adjustments that could allow us to become a destination University for some high quality players?"

I believe VERY EARLY on this thread it was established that we have some things to improve before we're worth the look. VERY EARLY the ideas were put out there about building up our Television base and getting on DirectTV to showcase our sports programs nationally. Building a network dedicated to our sports would be a very attractive platform to any athelete. This was discussed EARLY.

Unfortunately the conversation drifted into opinions about dorm room window dressings at CCU. Hopefully we've moved beyond that and are back to the present with the facts.

So, because we all know there are areas of improvement (save us from hearing the obvious), we can use the rest of this thread to offer SOLUTIONS that fit the framework and vision of our founder and trustees... (i.e.: pragmatic solutions).

1. Expand our TV reach with a national audience and the programming to match the popularity of 700 club or EWTN, TBN, etc. A solid station that touches every state through DirectTV would be a solid start.
2. Make the games an event to draw students in (SJ, I tip my hat to you on this one... I love your ideas with regard to this)
3. Become competetive in the BSC immediately. (As stated before, this upcoming year should see LU back near the top of the conference. This gives us a product worth all of the hype)
4. Mass marketing among Christian outlets (Churches, FCA camps, etc.)
5. Fast track LCA's bid to become a bording school (This would give us a place to groom some quality players and attract young talent to the campus early to develop loyalty to the LU brand.)
6. Give our coaches a face. (With an expanded television line up (or even in place of some 'Live from Liberty' shows) we should brand our major money coaches with their own programs. The more opportunity our coaches have to make a case in a families living room... the better. It wouldn't violate NCAA rules but it would definately get our coaches an edge b/c for a mid-major, the access to the coach would be unprecidented.
7. Continue to upgrade our facilities for the recruits. To offset some of our obvious distinctives (in the minds of some potential atheletes) we can give the teams access to some of the most high-tech equipment and some of the highest quality entertainment on campus. Invest in the programs that will eventually fit the bill for the rest of the department.

I'll stop there for now... but these are just a few productive ideas I'm tossing into the ring.

[SuperJon]

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

A straw man argument is what we have here folks:
The question at hand is whether or not LU can BECOME a school where solid Christian athletes would attend.

Ok, Will Honeycutt. I don't have GNED until tomorrow morning, I don't wanna hear this now.



Now, onto reading the rest. Couldn't resist the joke, sorry.

[SuperJon]

So, because we all know there are areas of improvement (save us from hearing the obvious), we can use the rest of this thread to offer SOLUTIONS that fit the framework and vision of our founder and trustees... (i.e.: pragmatic solutions).

I have offered many solutions for the campus life problem. You just haven't listened to them. Campus life is going to be a big draw for students. If there are things to do on campus for cheap or free, then that will draw more people. On of the bad things at Coastal was everything was so expensive. Yes, we had free things, but to eat or even go to a movie, we had to go to all the way to Myrtle and pay out the butt. We do a good job with the local food places in Lynchburg (Hardee's, Sonic, CiCi's, etc) feeding the students (a ton have student discounts) and Movies 10 helps out a lot. However, there needs to be more things on campus for students. If a prospective athlete clicks on the student life page (cause believe me, people look at that page) and they see a calendar that says a band is playing this Friday night in Schilling, and there'll be a movie next Friday night in The Vines, they'll see that the university is giving the students things to do. Campus life is becoming more and more important. We have a great intramurals system, if only we could bring the rest of student life up to the quality of intramurals.

[TallyW]

I find it hard to believe the athelete cares about dollar movies or concerts by unknown bands for $1. Because their tuition is free, most of them end up driving nicer cars than the average student and they can afford to eat out when they want. In addition if they live off campus they eat up the housing allowance by rooming with friends and pocketing the rest. They don't care about cheap stuff to do.

I guess we're not seeing eye to eye here at all.... I'm going to bed. Take care SJ... it's been real.

[SuperJon]

That's where you're wrong. You're thinking of these kids as just athletes and not as teenagers/early 20's as well. These kids don't drive nicer cars because they're on scholarship. Yes, maybe at huge schools they do, but not at LU. They drive cars just like the rest of us. The athlete doesn't have time to work, so their money is just as tight as a regular college students' money is. They can't afford to eat out all the time either. The only difference between a college athlete and a regular student is that one plays a sport and the other doesn't. In many cases, a college athlete is more strapped for cash than a regular student because they can't get jobs. That's one reason the whole "Should college players be paid" debate comes up. I know kids getting recruited right now. I know kids that got recruited last year. I have heard the phrase, "They have a good program but there's nothing to do once practice gets over" on more than one occasion. It's important. It may not be as important once the kid gets here, but it's extremely important in getting the kid here in the first place.

[Flamesfanva]

The one thing I picked up here (I think SJ said it) and also the reason I went to LU was because it was a Christian school. As a Christian I learned a lot while there.

Finding things to entertain ourselves can be in the eye of the beholder. Quite frankly, I find Charlottesville and Blacksburg more boring than Lynchburg.

I loved Katie when she said "Why Not Liberty". It's the truth. Yes, things can always be better, but why not be part of a growing Christian university. Be part of the solution instead of a complainer. I do all I can to promote LU, not because of the student life, dorms, academics, or other reasons, I do it because I believe in the fundamental vision of LU and that is to train Christians to impact the world for Christ. Do I wish sometimes I had gone to VT for my business degree? Yes, sometimes, but last year when I went to visit the campus and saw a group of women protestors saying not to confirm Judge Roberts to the Supreme Court (can you guess what reason they didn't want him), I realized how fortunate and grateful I was to have attended a school that did not compromise the Word of God.

I have the outlook that LU will get a few top tier athletes who know that college life is more than having beer blasts. As an LU graduate and VT fan, I am thankful to have Sam Gado representing the kind of student athlete LU has, and ashamed that VT let Marcus Vick represent that school. Yes, I want a winning program, but not at the expense VT paid.

[D Edcil]

TALLY - FYI on the LU background. i don't know if SJ has more then a semester at LU but with out giving too much away, my affiliation with LU, in several capacities, goes back a llloooonnnnggg ways. So you might want to rethink your perceptions about what we have to say. Also, I DO put a lot of emphasis on how things are done at comparable schools. There are several ways to "skin a cat" and I don't see any of SJ's suggestions denoting that this can't be done at LU
As for your suggestions, you make some good points, points that have already been made. I think we can't fall in love with TV. It would be nice to have "national" coverage, but we would have to offer a lot more to cable/satellite companies then we do know in terms of viewers and content. Above all, it must be blocked out locally until attendance is near capacity. (Argument stated before) LCA boarding school is a good idea, but I doubt that we will stock our teams from there. It is a VERY hot NCAA topic right now and there would be so much opportunity, deliberately or by accident, to violate rules, it would be more hassle then it is worth.
I do have a good suggestion though to go with "Give our coaches a face" campaign, which is a GREAT idea. That would be the old tried and true method of summer camps. "Back in the day...." for basketball camps you had the Schilling, Vines, E.C. Glass, 3 Brookville courts, 2 or 3 Heritage Courts, Rustburgs Courts and LCA running games from abou 8 am to 11 pm for both boys and girls team camps. The coaches did a great job of being at every court. Talk about gettting a community involved!! Talk about making some serious $$$$.
But thanks for the suggestions TALLY!! And do I believe LU CAN be great? Yes.

[jcmanson]

WOW. I didn't know I was about to open such a can of worms! I first want to start by saying I understand the complaints people like SJ and others have. I am a graduating senior and have been at LU for 4 years. My freshman year the only place I had to stay was on the circle. As happy as I was to be at Liberty, I didn't care that I had to take a shower that 30 other guys had been in! I was glad to be here. All we had to do on campus outside of class was go to Davids place, the schilling center, or play intramurals. What a huge step LU has taken in just 4 years in this area! I agree it is not perfect, but we have a pool, an ice rink, more intramural fields, a workout facility. What an improvement! Nobody is saying it is perfect, it's not. We're just saying how much it has improved in such a short time.

Yes, you can say LU is not the most exciting university in the world, but that is in the eye of the beholder. To me it is. You couldn't pay me to go to another institution. As big of a fan I've always been of UVA, and even though the great academic environment it has, I would much rather be here at Liberty regardless of their faults. No where else in the world can you go where there is this much to do, this large of an enrollment, with such a strong Christian heritage. NOWHERE! Yes, LU has its faults, and always will. We as fans, students, alumni, need to help improve the overall culture of LU. This starts by stop complaining, and help the administration in any way possible. They are doing all they can to better this institution. I have to also point out the professors. They are amazing! They truly want what is best for us students. They truly care for us, and want to make Liberty all that Jerry wants it to be.

I also agree with Tally and others that one day this institution will compete at the highest level in all areas. There is too much potential here for it not to happen.

I agree that this is a good discussion, but let's keep it on track. I started this thread to figure out the reasons why we haven't gotten some of the top christian athletes, and once determined present realistic solutions for them. I think the problems have been stated. Now for the solutions.

[A.G.]

I am solutions-oriented.
1. WIN consistently in the Big South
2. WIN consistently in ALL sports in the Big South so that LU becomes attractive to other conferences.
3. LEAVE The Big South and Kallander's Klown Show in the dust.

I think I have heard Dr. Falwell say that BECAUSE of being Christian we should be better. That is simply being good stewards of what God has graced us with.

[jcmanson]

A. G., I couldn't agree more with you. If we want to be a major program on the national scene we must get into a bigger and better conference than the Big South. This starts by winning consistently in the Big South, and in all sports in the Big South, as you have mentioned. We already do well enough in all sports to be attractive to another conference except for the two most important ones- football and basketball.

In order to win consistently in the Big South in basketball and football, we must be able to recruit some of the top athletes in the country, specifically the christian atheletes should be our prime target.

[PAmedic]

WOW. I come back 8 hrs later and missed 5 pages, including references to AOL, Wall St, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and Slip and Slides. ( I won't mention BROKEBACKS' legendary contributions )

This may be the greatest thread, ever.

JCMs post may well sum up my feelings here better than I could have. I am AMAZED at what has happened since the old days. BUT: we have to look forward as well, and SJ has some great ideas that only youth can bring. This guy is gonna do some great things for LU student pride if they unleash his crazy butt!

And SLY is dead-on; the fact that we can have this discussion to THIS extent is great in and of itself- Radford is over there wondering why they only have 18 members and 200 posts on their board (thanks to LUconn for answering that one for them!)

things could be worse- LETS KEEP IT GOING!

GREAT THREAD!

[LUconn]

I think we can't fall in love with TV. It would be nice to have "national" coverage, but we would have to offer a lot more to cable/satellite companies then we do know in terms of viewers and content. Above all, it must be blocked out locally until attendance is near capacity. (Argument stated before)

This is a tricky area. I know I have opted to watch it on TV myself rather than to travel over to campus, but how many folks are the same. I'm sure there are plenty. But out of those folks, how many of them would just choose to read about it the next day? We have to keep the local area's interest somehow. TV is a good way but as we've been talking about it can be an easy excuse not to be there. There's got to be a way to utilize it without shooting ourselves in the foot because as we've discussed before indipendant media is not going to do us any favors anytime soon. Tape delay I think would still have the same affect. The answer is programing about the teams. Like coaches shows, player interviews, etc. You have to peak people's interest and getting to know the coach and the player's backgrounds and stories make people want to invest their time and money in the sports programs.

Then again, we're puting scar out of a job. And all of that equipment.

[Hold My Own]

Right when I had the feeling the University was going under JC just rekindled my flame!

But LUconn, as I think we all know there is nothing better then to be at a GOOD game then in person....and we just need to start having good games....bottom line, once we start throwing down on people's faces then you'll want to see that in person to believe it....but I don't blame many for staying home to catch it rather than coming out....but it'll all be a distant memory in all of our major sports in the near future

[Sly Fox]

The debate over local television's effect on the gate can go on all day. It can be argued that having the game's on television helps to put the product into the homes of Lynchburgers who would never normally consider setting foot on the mountain. Perhaps seeing Larry go off intrigues the casual basketball fan to start coming out to the Vines Center.

I believe bigtime programs are affected more at the gate due to TV than mid-majors. Its all about selling the product and most schools of similar staure would love to have the exposure we're getting. Down here in Houston, the University of Houston & Rice have MAJOR issues getting hardly ANY of their football or basketball games on television.