[LUconn]

But you have to start where you are. You can't expect a guy to come in and be a dominant coach all of the sudden just because the Big South is weak. Well guess what, we also are weak. You start by being competative every year. Then finishing at the top. THen maybe dominating the conference. and so forth. I see a progression over the last 5 years (and yes I'm still talking in conference) with one large setback. I know everybody's thinking "well Marshall did it". I guess that just shows that Marshall is a pretty good coach and why I don't figure he'll be around here much longer.

[paradox]

RD is 77-100 with a winning conference record? What did the guy before him do? What kind of program did RD inherit? Did anything good come out of the previous era?

RD has never overachieved? Wow, I didn't know that there was so much controversy regarding the obvious overacheivement of the '04 season?


You can make an argument that RD won with Hank's leftovers? Maybe you can, but I can't:

Floor Leader: Woodson (Dunton walk-on)
Top Post Player: Martin (Dunton transfer from Binghamton)
Top Scoring Gaurds: Blair and Dees (Dunton's first recruiting class)
Honorable Mention: Lightbourne (Dunton JC transfer)

Sure, Sarchet had some nice post moves, Sneed was a wide body, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away. They were all role players at best.





As far as the here and now is concerned:


Dunton has this program back on track

[flameshaw]

RD is 77-100 with a winning conference record? What did the guy before him do? What kind of program did RD inherit? Did anything good come out of the previous era?

RD has never overachieved? Wow, I didn't know that there was so much controversy regarding the obvious overacheivement of the '04 season?


You can make an argument that RD won with Hank's leftovers? Maybe you can, but I can't:

Floor Leader: Woodson (Dunton walk-on)
Top Post Player: Martin (Dunton transfer from Binghamton)
Top Scoring Gaurds: Blair and Dees (Dunton's first recruiting class)
Honorable Mention: Lightbourne (Dunton JC transfer)

Sure, Sarchet had some nice post moves, Sneed was a wide body, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away. They were all role players at best.





As far as the here and now is concerned:


Dunton has this program back on track

Yawn, didn't know why I was expecting more.

[paradox]

Shaw: Probally because you can't make your Hank argument.

[paradox]

Shaw: Perhaps you have a "population of data" to support that one along with your six-sigma project?

[nickrichard]

, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away.

First, Mantlo was much more than a scrapper
Second, Mantlo was a RD kid (well, at least Bob Davis)

[Sly Fox]

... your six-sigma project?

Wow, I never thought I'd see that phrase used in a hoops thread. Greenbelt anyone?

[jcmanson]

Nick is correct, Mantlo was a RD kid.

[paradox]

, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away.

First, Mantlo was much more than a scrapper
Second, Mantlo was a RD kid (well, at least Bob Davis)

First of all, Mantlo was a Hank leftover. And he certainly wasn't a scorer nor an assist leader. He was in fact a scrappy kid that most of us liked.

[nickrichard]

No, he was not a Hank leftover. He was brought in with Bob Davis from the same JC out west, the same year that RD started. Somewhere, I think there is a media guide available online if you doubt me. Will your opinion of Mantlo rise once you find out he was a RD guy?

[paradox]

... your six-sigma project?

Wow, I never thought I'd see that phrase used in a hoops thread. Greenbelt anyone?

Yea, I know, but that was the only thing that came to mind when Shaw said, "but those are the numbers based on a stastically revelant population of data."

[paradox]

No, he was not a Hank leftover. He was brought in with Bob Davis from the same JC out west, the same year that RD started. Somewhere, I think there is a media guide available online if you doubt me. Will your opinion of Mantlo rise once you find out he was a RD guy?

I think that I already stated that most of us liked the guy. However, we still would have won without him.

Also, he did play for Hank. Davis was more of a LU connection in particular, and not exclusively associated with any coach.

[jcmanson]

, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away.

First, Mantlo was much more than a scrapper
Second, Mantlo was a RD kid (well, at least Bob Davis)

First of all, Mantlo was a Hank leftover. And he certainly wasn't a scorer nor an assist leader. He was in fact a scrappy kid that most of us liked.

Dude, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Mantlo transferred in RD's first year back as head coach during the 2002-03 season. He transferred from Eastern Wyoming College, which is where Bob Davis was coaching.

Prior to Mantlo's arrival at Liberty University, he played at Eastern Wyoming Community College for former Liberty assistant coach Bob Davis, and, as a sophomore, was recognized as an all-conference, all-region, and all-tournament player.

Davis came over with Dunton in 02-03.

[paradox]

You're right.

But at least we changed the subject

[jcmanson]

You're right.

But at least we changed the subject

[nickrichard]

No, he was not a Hank leftover. He was brought in with Bob Davis from the same JC out west, the same year that RD started. Somewhere, I think there is a media guide available online if you doubt me. Will your opinion of Mantlo rise once you find out he was a RD guy?

I think that I already stated that most of us liked the guy. However, we still would have won without him.

Also, he did play for Hank. Davis was more of a LU connection in particular, and not exclusively associated with any coach.

What are you talking about? I kind of remember Bob Davis being an assistant coach under RD. Kind of associates him with RD. And becasue you made me do it,
From the Media Guide:

2001-2002 (5-25, 2-12 Big South - Hanks last year (without Mantlo on the roster)
Pos. Name (Ht., Cl., GS, PPG., RPG., FG%, FT%)
G Chris Caldwell (6-1, Sr., 30, 15.4, 3.4, .394, .724)
G Torin Beeler (6-6, Fr., 22, 4.0, 3.6, .561, .388)
C David Watson (6-9, Sr., 16, 4.7, 4.4, .588, .500)
F Vincent Okotie (6-8, Jr., 20, 9.0, 4.0, .407, .671)
F Rob Attaway (6-6, Jr., 15, 2.5, 2.2, .364, .407)
Top Subs: Jason Sarchet (6-9, So., 14, 5.2, 5.0, .411, .700)
J.R. Nicholas (6-4, So., 13, 4.8, 2.8, .312, .615)

2002-2003 (14-15, 8-6 Big South - first year with RD as coach
Pos. Name (Ht., Cl., GS, PPG., RPG., FG%, FT%)
G Ryan Mantlo (6-1, Jr., 28, 11.2, 4.5, .394, .585)
G Jeremy Monceaux (6-0, Fr., 26, 8.8, 1.9, .373, .847)
C Jason Sarchet (6-8, Jr., 28, 9.0, 6.8, .446, .780)
F Gabe Martin (6-4, Jr., 27, 15.1, 6.4, .424, .853)
F Vincent Okotie (6-7, Sr., 26, 12.1, 4.3, .419, .841)
Top Subs: Glyn Turner (6-8, Jr., 3, 4.1, 2.7, .426, .628)
Harry Williams (6-5, Jr., 3, 3.0, 2.2, .410, .594)

[jmdickens]

we still would have won without him

Please, stop you're making yourself out to be a bigger moron than we thought....

i love the Woodson walk on comment.....he was scholarship after the first semester, and I am sure RD was recruiting him, but didn't have any scholarships available.

Leo, Blair, Dees, Clarke, Stewart, Dickey, Battle were all announced as commitments...we lost some, but Woodson wasn't planning to come to LU and try out, he was brought here

[paradox]

Here is the revised version.

DICKENS: only you would even try to argue against RD on this one.

You can make an argument that RD won with Hank's leftovers? Maybe you can, but I can't:

Floor Leader: Woodson (Dunton walk-on)
Top Post Player: Martin (Dunton transfer from Binghamton)
Top Scoring Gaurds: Blair and Dees (Dunton's first recruiting class)
Intangibles Leader: Ryan Mantlo (Dunton JC transfer)
Honorable Mention: Lightbourne (Dunton JC transfer)

Sure, Sarchet had some nice post moves, Sneed was a wide body, but let's not get carried away. They were role players at best.

[jcmanson]

we still would have won without him

but Woodson wasn't planning to come to LU and try out, he was brought here

Are you sure about that? You may be correct, but I remember hearing a story that Woodson just walked in one day, and asked about walk-on tryouts for the basketball team.

[LUconn]

how many times to we have to have the mantlo argument? He came in with Gabe. Both never played for Mel.

Also, watch the name calling. Or at least be more subtle about it so I can pretend I didn't notice.

[paradox]

Nick & Conn:

I already admitted that I was mistaken regarding Mantlo.

[jmdickens]

I never said he didn't win....you made a ridiculous post about Mantlo not being important and assumed we would have won without him.

How can that be proven??

[paradox]

It's true that Woodson was not recruited and LU was fortunate to have him, but a previous poster said that an argument can be made that RD won with Hank leftovers. I seriously doubt that even a very weak argument can be made for that one.

[paradox]

I never said he didn't win....you made a ridiculous post about Mantlo not being important and assumed we would have won without him.

How can that be proven??

I'll gladly concede that one. Perhaps, I underestimated his intangible value. It's hard to think of '04 without him.

DICKENS:

So, I guess we won with Dunton guys then, huh?

[flameshaw]

RD is 77-100 with a winning conference record? What did the guy before him do? What kind of program did RD inherit? Did anything good come out of the previous era?

RD has never overachieved? Wow, I didn't know that there was so much controversy regarding the obvious overacheivement of the '04 season?


You can make an argument that RD won with Hank's leftovers? Maybe you can, but I can't:

Floor Leader: Woodson (Dunton walk-on)
Top Post Player: Martin (Dunton transfer from Binghamton)
Top Scoring Gaurds: Blair and Dees (Dunton's first recruiting class)
Honorable Mention: Lightbourne (Dunton JC transfer)

Sure, Sarchet had some nice post moves, Sneed was a wide body, and Mantlo was a scrapper, but let's not get carried away. They were all role players at best.





As far as the here and now is concerned:


Dunton has this program back on track

If back on track is 14-16 with zero quality non-conference wins, your track is real small.

While I am thinking of it, if RD was responsible for the 2004 team success, then why hasn't he replicated it in the last 3 years? I guess you can't use the "it takes time" excuse for that. Then again, some people will never let reality get in the way of having their minds already made up.

GO FLAMES!!!!!!!!!