[Guest]

I have one question for you guys...Did it help or hurt Katie Feenstra for choosing to come to Liberty? She had the opportunity to go just about anywhere. Not only is she playing at the next level but she is rubbing elbows with the likes of David Robinson while doing ministry work.

[LUconn]

Now we're getting somewhat off track but...

It depends on how you're looking at it. She could have won a national championship if she had gone to a top 10 program. (was she recruited by them?? I have no idea.) So in that aspect it hurt her, although I'm sure she doesn't mind. It helped her spiritually, I'm assuming as there is no way I could possibly know that. But I do wonder where she would have gone if she was indeed being recruited by the big dogs and her sister hadn't attended here. Ahhh speculation, we'll never know.

[Hold My Own]

Look, if a blue chip athlete is a very LOUD Christian and everyone/team knows it then a Duke University is going to take him right to the FCA meeting on the official visit...We offer a Christian school, but every school has Christian aspects (FCA, Chapel, etc) so that whole "theres no excuse for us to not get blue chip athletes" doest really work...yeh we offer more, but so do other schools when it comes to the sports aspect...i.e. Shane Battier who majored in religion, you think Duke took him to the wildest party he's ever seen on his visit...no, they met his needs



Trying to get back on track here....as for D and his X's and O's skills, I know it was a while ago but does anyone remember that win over UVA when LU lost VERY good players b/c of a party then Coach M resigned....He really only had one good player yet they pulled off one of the biggest wins in LU history (I'd name it a top 5 win due to the talent we had on that team), that says something for his X & O skills

[Agent2Be]

I respect your notion HMO, but what about the exodus of coaches and players this past off-season? These were Dunton's guys. Was that an aberation or a sign of things to come?

I dont doubt his X and O skills. The main debate is does he have what it takes to build a program. These are two fundamentally different issues.

[Hold My Own]

I respect your notion HMO, but what about the exodus of coaches and players this past off-season? These were Dunton's guys. Was that an aberation or a sign of things to come?

I dont doubt his X and O skills. The main debate is does he have what it takes to build a program. These are two fundamentally different issues.

I think there are a lot of things that led up to that...

1. If you hire good quality/knowledgeable coach's and dont have the budget other schools (to pay assistant coach's money some head coach's get) you'll lose them...I believe it would be a sign of bad things if they are willing to go to another school at or around the same caliber to LU just to be the #3 assistant coach...but there are very few coach's who's life dream is to be the #2 or #3 man, so when a school offers you to be a Head Coaching gig then chances are you wont turn it down...Heck, I wouldnt be surprised if Coach Martin was to get a chance here soon, he's got what it takes

2. As its been said one of the coach's was the recruiting coordinator and well, look at our team

3. One of the Coach's has been a head coach his entire life, and he never could get used to not being the head man...I look at that like this, You've been a CEO for your entire life and now your the #2 or #3 man....you're not always going to agree with the philosophy or style things are being handled

[Sly Fox]

I like the discussion. We don't have to be sheep following blindly behind anyone's thoughts. But let's make sure we keep it all perspective and remember we all want what is best for the university. That's a very subjective matter and can have multiple intelligent but divergent viewpoints.

Intelligent discussion based on facts will never be discouraged on this board.

[Agent2Be]

OK HMO - in your opinion, is the infrastructure currently in place good enough to take the program to the next level?

[TallyW]

HMO,
I see where you're coming from. Obviously it's up in the air... LU hasn't done enough to even come close to getting a DUKE player today. I'd suggest however that if we're ranked 315th in the nation (or whatever) that we don't have to talk about a top-5 caliber team. Let's drop off the map and ask ourselves... is it fair to say that with our distinctives we should expect to get the 2nd tier players? Maybe not ACC or Big East players but definately a Gonzaga-type player of 3-5 years ago. Have you seen their location/campus/religious background... Still they've done it with the right system and coaches.

We'll get there... and the day will come when a Blue Chip player comes to LU but my argument isn't all about Blue Chippers who are being told they could go pro. My argument is that all we need is a solid 3-5 guys who can ball and would enjoy the LU experience. They're out there. Let's get them.

[ALUmnus]

I don't know why anyone bothers to mention Feenstra in this discussion. Whether our clothes are on or off, it's pretty easy to tell that men and women are very different. You can't honestly compare the two in most circumstances, and this is one of them. Let's not go into it, so enough said about that.

If someone is good enough to get a full ride for college based on his basketball skills, the first thing is to look at their options. And if they're a top recruit, LU is not an option. Basketball players want to succeed individually, and do what it takes to get to the next level. But even when you have an exception to the rule (David Robinson), where do they go? Not a Christian school. How many times has it happened? Can anyone give any examples? I heard Dwight Howard was real big on his faith, what school did he go to? What, he didn't even go to school?

Regardless of our name, we are a low-D1 school, and that doesn't attract any of the top-ranked athletes. Schools like ours get players who have run out of their other options. I mean, most of the guys who come here to play ball don't even do it becuase LU's a Christian school. They do it because it's their chance to play D1 ball on a full ride.

The only way to change LU's place in college basketball is to change who and where we play, namely our conference. Competition and image mean everything. Change that, and you increase the number of players who are willing to play here. I wouldn't even consider the Big South a mid-major, it's as close to the bottom as you can get. What's the highest any team from this conference has ever gotten in the national rankings? (Really, I honestly would like to know). Sure, people can say the Winthrop is the next Gonzaga, but how long has it been, and, gee, I don't see any votes going their way in any of the polls. People don't choose to play here over big schools because here is nowhere in terms of basketball.

[TallyW]

For what's been discussed I don't understand why people keep bringing up the biggest names to talk about solid Christian atheletes. I didn't know that we had to have guys who went straight to the NBA to become a quality D1 basketball program. The great thing about Gonzaga of years gone by was that they played as a team. They have had great atheletes who play together but they didn't need David Robinson... they needed solid D1 talent. That's what I'm saying...

For everyone who says "no, can't do it... boo hooo... etc." Just remember that the school we're talking about didn't even exist before most of you were alive. For a school of Christians we sure do lack any faith that it will continue to prosper.

BTW... hello ALUmnus... good to "meet" ya

[guest forever]

Where did Coach Dunton attend college?

[bigsmooth]

baptist bible college in springfield, missouri.

[guest forever]

Thanks

[Sly Fox]

Actually I think he went to the BBC in Clarks Summit, PA. Its a GARBC school not directly affiliated with the BBF school in Missouri.

[Agent2Be]

Alumnus - well said

Tally - I agree that we need the 3-5 solid D-I talents sans the blue chippers

HMO - In your opinion (or the opinion of those posting in on the thread) - does Dunton have the core of assistants in place that can generate the athletes that will build the LU b-ball program? I am not questioning his X and O ability or motivational ability. Does he have the core in place and will that core build a successful program? Is the program going in the right direction? Is this just a growing pain?

I know that Coach D is busy, but if he gets a minute to post again, I would love to hear his strategic plan as far as the infrastructure of the program. In my opinion this season is just a blip on the path to bigger and better thing.

[RedDog]

Sly - He went to Baptist Bible College in Springfield, Mo. ... I went to school there the year after Randy was there and worked with the basketball team there so I know that for sure ... Randy led the team to several national championships at the NCCAA Div. II level ... Old-time Liberty assistant basketball coach Ken Brooks from the late 80s and early 90s also played at BBC in Springfield, Mo. ... That's who brought Randy to Liberty ...

[Guest]

Why?


Why would we get the best Christian atheletes? You see our culture as an advantage to get Christian athletes. I see it as a disadvantage to get any recruits including Christians.

I'm not diving into the RD argument... but other teams on campus get recruits all the time because they want to go to a Christian School. I've heard every coach here say that it should be an advantage to be a Christian school... including RD.

[SamFan]

Also, Hankinson may have been able to recruit...but it didn't seem like we could win...did his players ever learn that match-up zone defenisve system that he talked about...I think in his 3rd year he said they had about 70 percent of the system learned.

I think Dunton gets the X and Os...hopefully next year we'll have some more talent come in. REALLY need a center. REALLY need a center. Maybe 2 - and a lot of the other problems go away, I think.

Jim I know what you were saying about Hankinson being able to recruit...although I do remember when he lost 75% of his recruits....anyone else remember when we had like the top 50 recruiting class and I dont believe we saw one of those players come....I guess it just goes to show you how easy it is to lose players in todays college game with last minute offers

And yes, Dunton is very cocky and a self promoter (theres very few DI BBall Coach's that dont have a big ego, it's prob. what keeps them motivated when things get bad) anyways, I'm not ready to hand that crown to D, he comes in 2nd...Hankinson wins this title outright...I've never heard so much stuff in my life...I took out a loan to buy a car from him and not to mention shirtless b/c he already got that from me

As for the Pro Dunton people...you tend to gather some when the 4 years before you came we were worse than our football team and then his first year on the job we get 2nd then 1st then 2nd again...and yes I will continue to repeat myself until people finally get it through their heads that he's been successful up until this point

The problem with this board is I know for a fact there are members and guest on here with a hidden agenda or grudge, being former coach's, staff and players that didnt leave LU on the best of terms (99% Guests, hence the reason for not registering)

I wouldn't call Mel cocky... a little crazy, but not cocky. There is nothing wrong with being confident btw... but you have to be able to back it up. I am also guessing that the mentions about the 90's are not just related to wins and losses. Correct my memory, but when Randy left the first time, it was pretty messy. I was shocked when LU brought him back after the things said in the papers. At the same time, I was surprised Randy wanted to come back after not being interviewed. The whole thing seemed really rushed... like there wasn't even a process just a handing of the job to him. I think some people aren't willing to give him the benifit of the doubt because maybe they didn't think he deserved the job. Plus, I swear that me and my friends have heard him cuss on the sideline... some of the hardliners may be holding that against him.

Now that said, he has done a good job on the court. Just a little suspect off the court.

[Hold My Own]

it was rushed b/c they didnt want to give anyone time enough to form a "committee" which was the biggest joke in LU history

[Hold My Own]

Alumnus - well said

Tally - I agree that we need the 3-5 solid D-I talents sans the blue chippers

HMO - In your opinion (or the opinion of those posting in on the thread) - does Dunton have the core of assistants in place that can generate the athletes that will build the LU b-ball program? I am not questioning his X and O ability or motivational ability. Does he have the core in place and will that core build a successful program? Is the program going in the right direction? Is this just a growing pain?

I know that Coach D is busy, but if he gets a minute to post again, I would love to hear his strategic plan as far as the infrastructure of the program. In my opinion this season is just a blip on the path to bigger and better thing.

Well it all depends on what your definition of next level is...my def. is what Winthrop is doing, Top 50 and the favorite every year in the BS...I do believe he can....Gonz. style...ehhhh but let's not forget that he was able to get recruits such as Larry Blair who will go down as one of the better players in LU history and David Dees...and heck if David would have played Defense then then he too would have gone down as one of the best shooters in LU history right behind CJ Cowgil (remember that shot?) but really, if he would have played Defense then this thread would never have even been made and we'd be talkin about fighting for the #2 spot...oh well, just enjoy Dewight next year


He always has been able to get the talent....it's just sad b/c really if a few things would have gone different this team would have been one of the better teams we've seen in a while

[SamFan]

it was rushed b/c they didnt want to give anyone time enough to form a "committee" which was the biggest joke in LU history

OK... you are losing credibility...you have one bad committee choice and you scrap the idea? "The last election didn't go well... so let's just let Joe pick the next president." Same concept. From what I remember, there were good people on that committee...they just made a bad decision. Mel had good credentials, just not a good Head coach. So that was no reason to have a Mickey Mouse system in choosing the next coach.

There wasn't even a day between the firing of Mel and the hiring of RD. What if there was some outstanding candidate who would have stepped forward? They may not have even heard Mel was fired before they heard he had been replaced.

This is nothing against RD personally...but that is just bad business. Whether athletics or on Wall Street... you can't do things like that. Whether you have a committee or hire a firm or just have one person spearhead the process... you have to at least take applications for a week. What if Dean Smith wanted to come out of retirement to coach Liberty? He wouldn't have had time to send in an application. (That is obviously an exaggeration... but a good analogy.)

I was just saying that some of the people, that remember that situation, might be less forgiving than people who were not around then. A Soph or Jr., would have only been 11 or 12 years old when all that happened and probably somewhere else in the country. So I'm guessing the students are more forgiving. You got to think that RD may have rubbed a few people the wrong way back then and they may still be in Lynchburg. That's my guess as to your "grudge" people. I had nothing to do with the situation back then but I remember that emotions were high and bridges burned. Although they apparently were built back... maybe L-burg City Council forced LU to build that bridge too.

[SamFan]

let's not forget that he was able to get recruits such as Larry Blair who will go down as one of the better players in LU history and David Dees

He always has been able to get the talent....it's just sad b/c really if a few things would have gone different this team would have been one of the better teams we've seen in a while

See I think you are missing the point... the detractors are saying it is his fault that those players left and thus we are where we are.

Also, if you are going to throw Coach Leary under the bus about recruiting then you can't have it both ways. If he gets hit for not giving us the talent this year, then he gets credit for getting LB and Dees on the campus. You must be a Political Science major... or a used car salesman.

[Hold My Own]

No your point is taken, but you have to admit, reguardless if Dees would have played D then he would have stayed...bottom line (not to mention the fact he wish he would have stayed)

Heck no I'm not throwing Leary under the bus, like I mentioned before on page 3 or 4 you have to be very careful before you toss blame one way or the other

[Hold My Own]

it was rushed b/c they didnt want to give anyone time enough to form a "committee" which was the biggest joke in LU history

you are losing credibility....

Please dont ever say that, bc if there's one thing that I'll never lose it is that, ANY and EVERY fact I mention on this board comes from either Coach's or Jerry Falwell himself


RD stayed in very close contact with LU after Mel was hired with JF...and others at LU, he was not bitter at all like most prob. would have been...but the reason he was hired right after Mel was fired is b/c everyone took him for granted...we didnt know how good we had it, going up to UVA and winning with that team we had (about like this team) pretty much sealed the deal

JF was very upset that this committee didnt give RD a fair shake at things, he thought he should have gotten the job not to mention a INTERVIEW, but he didnt have a choice with who all was on that committee...it was a very very tainted committee

you werent on that were you samfan?

[TallyW]

Mel didn't come through but lets face it... at the time it was as good of a move as we've had around here. We were getting a coach from the Big East to come to LU. He was from West Virginia (not far away) and he also was into recruiting... those things added up to a good decision. I don't know that we knew he was a hot-head but he was bringing Carl (forget his last name) from WVU and potential recruits would have been more interested in playing for a Big East coach than a 13 year LU assistant.... In Hindsight it turned out badly but at the time I can see what they were thinking.