[SuperJon]

I never demonized the former coach. I simply told you what you refuse to believe and that's that the decision that was made was based on more than wins and losses. Every coaching decision that has happened has been about more than wins and losses.

[BJWilliams]

Not to mention the simple fact that there are circumstances beyond the control of the AD that often come into play. Jeff Barber has zero control over whether a kid decides to transfer or not. He has no control over whether a kid gets hurt or not. His job is simply to bring in the people that he feels can help a program win. Whether or not the program would have ended up winning another championship if the change had not been made is merely conjecture and speculation at this point. All that you have done is acted like a spoiled little brat who is mad because he didnt get his way. And coming back under new assumed names has done zero to help change that sentiment. Has this team struggled? Absolutely...does it make it wrong that a change was made...absolutely not.

[vthokies20]

I never demonized the former coach. I simply told you what you refuse to believe and that's that the decision that was made was based on more than wins and losses. Every coaching decision that has happened has been about more than wins and losses.

I respectfully beg to differ....YOU the one and only SUPER JON have consistently posted negativity towards RD while beat the drum on our "progress??". Like "it is about more than wins and losses". that is bs and an open comment assuming something behind the screens. RD was leading a growing winning program. Remember what RD took over compared to what he handed to JB/RM as a matter of fact one of his walkons was our best player 3 years later. Who is doing the recruiting? Where is the real talent? Stop the nonsense this was a 6th seed in a year of bad teams in the BSC. Look at the ESPN Bracketbuster scores compared to past years. How many games would a TJ, BJ, Ant, dwight, Alex team win in this league? How about Mantlo, Gabe, Blair, Sneed, Woodson? or Blair, Dees, Leo, and Woodson? RD had one tough year so does Roy Williams.

Give Dale Layer a chance, I am ok with that. Say what JB did was in the best interest of LU...never, and believe me the number has grown who now see this for what it was. There remains a small number of you with a vested interest who will twist any angle to find a positive for the direction. But just like the democrats sell huge deficits/health care their spin will not be blindly accepted by November voters. RM and DL have enjoyed the largest $$ budgets in the BSC after three years shouldn't we expect more?

[Th3rd]

so you are saying at this point and time, with our best outlook ahead, you would rather have RD as the head coach than DL?? I mean RD was before my time so I don't know the whole story on him other then what I have been told, but honestly if he was that awesome of a coach, wouldn't he still be coaching here?? I think that within the next 2 years DL will have seasons that so overwhelm most any team that has come before that most people will forget what was.... I mean to look at this team and not see us being the best in the league and going to the Dance within at least the next 3 (more likely the next 2) is just stupid... but maybe i read your post wrong </rant>

[Schfourteenteen]

Dunton went 2,1,2,3 in 4 of his five years when the conference was a lot tougher. His last team would have been arguably the best ever. Of course some on here must characterize 4,3,6 finishes under JB as improvement to do otherwise would admit a wrong direction.

2007 was the only year in which the Big South was considerably better - Ranked 19th of 32(now 33). Every other year from 04-10 has the conference between 25th and 29th. In fact, the numbers are remarkably similar.

04 - 28th
05 - 29th
06 - 25th

08 - 25th
09 - 28th
10 - 28th

Exactly 3rd place is the 19th ranked conference in America, losing to the 22nd ranked team in America on the last possession on their floor, going 7-2 in last nine conference games and having the most talented roster in program history line up.

Blind, those of who supported RD are childish, no we are watching as a program positioned to win its 2nd NCAA bid in 5 years was prevented the opportunity from which a number of community members recognize as an inexperienced ego. Do you not see the lack of community attendance in spite of the largest promotional expenditures in department history. Super Jon and other must demonize a good man to justify their blind loyalty. On to season 4 with our 4-3-6 seeds. No question RD had and would have done better.

You will see I edited the rankings post. Wrong year. My bad.

Who is this 22nd best team we lost to? 13-16 Seton Hall? Winthrop?

[Schfourteenteen]

I never demonized the former coach. I simply told you what you refuse to believe and that's that the decision that was made was based on more than wins and losses. Every coaching decision that has happened has been about more than wins and losses.

I respectfully beg to differ....YOU the one and only SUPER JON have consistently posted negativity towards RD while beat the drum on our "progress??". Like "it is about more than wins and losses". that is bs and an open comment assuming something behind the screens. RD was leading a growing winning program. Remember what RD took over compared to what he handed to JB/RM as a matter of fact one of his walkons was our best player 3 years later. Who is doing the recruiting? Where is the real talent? Stop the nonsense this was a 6th seed in a year of bad teams in the BSC. Look at the ESPN Bracketbuster scores compared to past years. How many games would a TJ, BJ, Ant, dwight, Alex team win in this league? How about Mantlo, Gabe, Blair, Sneed, Woodson? or Blair, Dees, Leo, and Woodson? RD had one tough year so does Roy Williams.

Give Dale Layer a chance, I am ok with that. Say what JB did was in the best interest of LU...never, and believe me the number has grown who now see this for what it was. There remains a small number of you with a vested interest who will twist any angle to find a positive for the direction. But just like the democrats sell huge deficits/health care their spin will not be blindly accepted by November voters. RM and DL have enjoyed the largest $$ budgets in the BSC after three years shouldn't we expect more?

Let's get honest here. There was no winning. 11-17 is not winning, although it is better than 4-23. You should also note I may be one of the few who refuses to count non D-I games as wins. So this year we finished 12-16. That's not winning either. Difference is we expected to win in 07. Ace, Larry Blair, Smitty, BJ and 1/2Brew had different expectations than the 5th youngest team in D-I.

So where are we? I'd say around the same spot around 2 years younger. 2007 saw one win vs. top 250. 2010? The same for 2010. 2007 featured a horrific loss to STFU, a couple drubbings and a spot on Sportscenter where we got made fun of. 2010? No horrific loss(UNCA was pretty bad though), a couple drubbings and a (longer)spot on ESPN where we got made fun of.

You can ask for progress - progress was shown last year(09). 18 Wins, some over good teams. RPI under 200. Finished terribly - against VMI nonetheless. Still a better season(overall) than any in the past decade. Then the wheels fell off.

I'm content with where we are because - like most of us - I realized where we were in April 2009. No coach, no Diva, no defense (well we never had that ) and an uncertainty in who would return. April 2009 was crisis mode.

2010 = A Younger 2007. I'll take it.

[Cider Jim]

Lang's end-of-the-season wrap-up in the local fishwrap:

Young LU players matured rapidly

By Chris Lang | Sports writer
Published: March 4, 2010

Evan Gordon, Antwan Burrus and Patrick Konan were the key signees in Liberty coach Dale Layer’s first recruiting class, and all signed in the late period.

Gordon didn’t make a commitment until late May, and a prevailing thought was that all three would be project-type players who were a year away from being true contributors.

But as the season progressed, it was clear that those three wouldn’t have a choice in the matter. They needed to grow up quickly, and by the end of the season, they were three of Liberty’s most steady contributors.

Those three players embody Liberty’s season as a whole. The Flames were up and down, alternating wins and losses in their final 10 games. But along the way, a young group got better seemingly every night, learned how to battle through adversity and turned a rebuilding year into something better.

http://www2.newsadvance.com/lna/sports/ ... dly/24735/

[olldflame]

I was happy to read this from Jesse about JC "I’m really excited to get him up there this summer.”

I assume that means he will be going to summer school and working out with the team. Hopefully Baird will be there too.

[ToTheLeft]

The main issue here is trying to compare Jeff Barber as head of the Basketball Program to Randy Dunton.

Randy was a great coach for us who brought us a ring, and a ton of talented players. Was he let go too soon? I'd say he was based on his numbers. But in a world like this, if your boss doesn't like you, or wants to make a change, any excuse is a good enough excuse to move on. RD caught the wrong end of that.

Ritchie was, by all accounts, the wrong hire. He had a history of jumping ship, and although he brought us some notoriety, he really gave us nothing by the time he left. Chris Perez, David Minaya, Bill Weaver... that's pretty much what we got from the RMK regime. Oh, and being known as the place that Seth Curry went before Duke and the NBA. The program was a mess, held together by Jesse Sanders and Jason Eaker, when Dale showed up.

But to the main point, none of that is Jeff barber running the basketball program. I would say he made a bad hire for the program, and since has made a hire that I believe will be good, but the jury is still out. However, even if DL is a flop, Jeff Barber won't be fired over it. It's going to take something more than a couple failed basketball hirings to get rid of an AD who's raised a ton of money for the program.

This is the last time I'll speak on this topic unless someone addresses me specifically, however, both sides of this argument tend to go overboard. Let numbers speak for themselves. Randy Dunton brought LU more in his years to Liberty than we've got since. There's a REAL banner hanging in the Vines, depicting his teams trip to the NCAA's. Not a CI.com tournament banner. An NCAA banner. Until Dale gets us there, he's not as good of a coach for this program as Randy was. And it's clear Ritchie wasn't, either.

You can say it's not about just wins and losses, but if you're the nicest guy in the world, but never win the big one, you get axed. Just ask Tony Dungy from his Tampa Bay days. Great man, but couldn't win a game that mattered, so he was gone. I'm not saying you keep someone who is contradictory to your school's philosophy and keep him because he wins. I wouldn't want to see John Calapari here. But there's nothing I know about Randy Dunton that would point to him being a bad representation of Liberty. Foot stomping and clipboard throwing are hardly indications of someone unfit to lead a basketball team. If that's the case, how does Bobby Knight have one of the best records in NCAA history?

Give this argument a rest. From both sides. The constant snipes at RD all over the board are the reason that, upon a failure, the RD supporters come back and remind us of the facts of RD"s success and RMK's failure. If a thread about NBA basketball, iPhones, or someone's birthday can include a jab at RD from various people on this board, then those who support RD have all the right in the world to snipe right back.

I wish nothing but success to Dale Layer. He's a great man, and I believe he has the program headed in the right direction. I also wish nothing but the best for Randy Dunton. If I was an AD and had a low-major or mid-major basketball team, I'd probably have him on my short list. He won, and you can't take that away from him.

[jcmanson]

You would think people would get tired of the same debate after 3 years

[LUconn]

It was on hiatus because of how awesome last year was going. They'd have looked like idiots. I'm enjoying it this time around.

[flamesfilmguy]

Having worked in the basketball office a semester of RD's tenure I can tell you it probably was not just about wins and losses. just my 2 cents. I'm done.

[Rocketfan]

alright i have one new question that i haven't seen asked, please correct me if it has been brought up.

As TTL stated when you hire someone ( ritchie ) with a history of jumping ship should there not be a clause in the contract stating if you bolt before ( lets say 3 years ) that you owe us money/buyout? We see this is football alot as coaches try to move up ( Rich Rod key example). To me if Ritchie at the time of the contract wanted to be here bad enough he would have signed up for a commitment. The fact that to my knowledge nothing like this was worked in means to me, id just have paid the current Butler head coach the higher salary he was asking( i know this is rumor) rather than risk major regression due to a jump ship mentality. Instead frankly i think we got star struck with a big name and tossed logic out the window.

[WinthropEagleFan]

Winthrop made sure to put a 'pay-off' provision in Marshall's contract toward the end of his tenure in case he bolted. I think it was between 100-200K...nothing major, but at least it helped pay for Peele's first season on the job.

[grm]

Nothing new has been said, although I would say that "To The Left" put together a great composition that addressed most issues honestly & fairly.

All I asked in the beginning of this renewed brouhaha was how JB evaluated his own first three years in relation to where the basketball program was, throwing in one of his own quotes from days gone by, but I guess everybody knows me well enough to know that there was a little -ing going on ....

Maybe I should be sorry, but it has been interesting reading, and has brought some passion to the Board.

Are we allowed jokes on this board? I think B.J. cautioned us not to throw JB under the bus, to which I would respond, (and here's my joke)

"I'd like to, but with Royer & Dunton already under there, there's no more room." (

[ToTheLeft]

And Brock Smith...

And The Big South Conference...

And Maine...

And The NCAA Selection Committee...

[SuperJon]

I love how the only people that outwardly whine about Royer are the Dunton Disciples.

The other thing that's funny to me is how they always hate Barber yet they fail to acknowledge that Barber went to bat for Dunton to even get him the chance to coach that 06-07 season and finish his contract out.

[grm]

I love how the only people that outwardly whine about Royer are the Dunton Disciples.

The other thing that's funny to me is how they always hate Barber yet they fail to acknowledge that Barber went to bat for Dunton to even get him the chance to coach that 06-07 season and finish his contract out.

You're the one whining now, and there's really no effort on your part to peacefully co-exist, which I find a bit offensive. A lot of your responses are nothing more than bullying, which is fine - I'm a big boy - I just don't understand the rationale, this being a board for expressing opinions.

And say what you want to about Barber, but to say that he in any way went to bat for Randy Dunton is ludicrous. And that, I can prove, again, in his own writing.

[SuperJon]

I wasn't bullying. I was laughing at a bad argument.

I don't claim to know exactly how things went down because I don't have letters that are four years old that I'm hanging on to. Personally, it's none of my business how it went down. The decision that was made was the best one for Liberty basketball at the time. The replacement, in retrospect, wasn't the best decision but I refuse to say that not renewing the contract of Coach Dunton was a bad decision.

[grm]

....The decision that was made was the best one for Liberty basketball at the time. The replacement, in retrospect, wasn't the best decision but I refuse to say that not renewing the contract of Coach Dunton was a bad decision.

And I'm happy to, with sincerely, respect your position on that.

Honestly, I think I anger people here more by what they know I feel than by what I say. I really
haven't bashed Barber here in any vicious terms that I know of, and I have no intention of doing so.
I feel it would be out of place

Now, whether there's room for the statement I am about to make or not, I don't know, you can be the judge.

JB made a decision that drastically impacted someone that is like a son to me. (I Understand that's my problem, not yours, and I understand that God may turn it into a positive, and I pray that he does.) But to ask me to really embrace JB seems like it is asking too much, considering
how close I am with Randy.

Now please hear this:
I am 100% in favor of LU, all the teams, and all the coaches, including Coach Layer.
I have already said the Coach & the men's basketball team both deserve an "A" for a great season in light of where they were a few months ago. I believe they will improve next year, & I hope they do.

Perhaps you can understand (I didn't say agree) both my support, and my other feelings.

[SuperJon]

I understand it. I always have. I just don't think it has to be brought up after every single season or every bad loss. There are plenty of things that happen to everyone that they don't like or agree with but there's no point in always bringing it up or harping on it.

[grm]

In my defense, I only brought up the question on the postmortem, which I felt was appropriate,
but, if it would help our relationship, and if we could somehow respect one another, I would pledge not to bring it up again.

[LUconn]

I think it's a pretty relevant question. And I don't mind when you bring it up. We're all a bunch of homers and it's nice to occasionally have some dissent to at least think about. You seem fairly lucid about the subject. This shmoe vthokies who has gone by 100 different names before, is foaming at the mouth while he's typing. He does more disservice to Randy than JB ever did.

[SuperJon]

I agree completely. I have no problem with grm asking the question. He is here when we win saying congratulations and he's here for the losses saying tough loss. We know his personal opinions but he's proving to be a Liberty supporter above all. It's the other people that come along when these questions are asked that are the annoying ones.

[flamesfilmguy]

Did we really just work that out like big kids with respect and dignity on both sides? wow. Satan is shopping for a coat. I'm impressed.