[krh44]

Wow you guys are getting pretty serious. First Belcherboy- do you still keep in touch w/ Josh Queen?
Guest I am not sure if you are attacking the character of the bball team or if you are concerned about the spiritual maturity or lack of from the team. There is a big difference. I think someone mentioned they had stories from the football team. I think that is probably true. I am sure it is hard to recruit 60 or 80 strong Christians guys (I have no idea how many they have on the roster) than 12 to 15. I am sure all our sports teams have had them some players that didn't represent LU well. I think the issue w/ our sports teams is that when these "bad apples " become the norm instead of the exception. I don't anyone is trying to judge someone but a LU athlete will make more headlines drinking than any other school. If Falwell talks about a D1 football team being a platform to share the gospel, where do we draw the line? That is why I asked the question on the old board about LU coaches should they recruit a better athlete over a Christian athlete?. I know I love LU not only because I went there but because of the testimonies from Gado, Katie and others. I don't know the spiritual life of this team but I have heard the team referred to as "Guys gone wild" which kind of scares me. However, I heard some testimonies about Blair and he gave glory to God the other night after the game. With that said I would probably post something if I saw Jerry out drinking( I could not see that) Would that be considered judging? Maybe. However, I would expect more from someone representing LU not because its my alma mater but because when you represent LU you are representing Jesus Christ.

[jcmanson]

First, I will admit that I do not know all of the players on a personal level.

Second, I do know some of them, and I know some of them are committed Christians. Lee Corning (I know doesn't play, but is still on the team) is very committed. Also, I know that Evan got saved his freshman year, and I heard that he was going to be entering the ministry.

As far as the other guys go, I do not know them personally, and we are not in a place to judge them. If there were legitimate stories of them out drinking or having sex etc. then that is another story, but I have not heard any of that. Rumors are just that rumors. We don't know where these guys' hearts are. That's what our coaches and chaplains are for, and I know our head coach is committed to LU and everything that LU is about. So, I trust our coach to hold the guys accountable which I am sure he does.

[Chris Lang]

Just to address Super J's question about media and anonymous sources ... well, we don't use anonymous sources. Company policy. Not allowed to use them. Most of the anonymous sources you see in stories are STRONG though. Like a coach saying he's going to be fired but saying "you didn't hear it from me," may come out as "sources close to the program say, etc." We have a problem with that. Mostly, it's a credibility thing. It's real easy to quote something to an anonymous sources and just play it off the next day if it's not true, but we're not interested in doing that. We'd rather have it right, if you know what I mean. In no way would any reputable newspaper quote a message board post without any sort of corroboration, though.

Anyway, carry on.

[TallyW]

Deleted by Author

[jcmanson]

Tally I think you hit the nail right on the head.

[belcherboy]

First Belcherboy- do you still keep in touch w/ Josh Queen?

Unfortunately I haven't seen Queen in a while. I know he is married with some kids. I make the occasional trip to Georgia, so I will have to look him up! How do you know him?

[Coach Dunton]

You guys are tremendous and passionate. Don't call for the stonings just yet. We have
some awesome young men in our program. The people who work with them everyday like Buck Romero will testify to that. In the Big Picture of life I feel that God is capable to
lead, guide and direct circumstances that shape the growth of individuals through confrontation and accountability. In other words be careful of witch hunts. Yes some of the biggest talents in the world have attitudes and issues. Have you ever read up on
Walton and Wooden. Our guys live in a fishbowl under the microscope that is part of the turf. The good book tells us that the enemy of our souls comes to steal, kill and destroy.
So don't think that they aren't involved in a culture even at Liberty that doesn't present many choices and challenges. Not every young lady is looking to be the next Mother Tereasa. Maybe at 18-23 you guys were consecrated and daily singing hymns, most of my friends who today are making big ministry impact were still trying to figure it all out.
That is not a license to be undisciplined or live out of bounds--proper accountability is the answer. I know the growth pattern of our former players and we are all products of grace. Solomon was insightful in Proverbs 13:24 to link love and discipline. Emotional undergirding essential for a mature adulthood is fostered by the consistent parameters provided from a sense of care and guidance. Let me give some perspective on how I see
the state of affairs in Liberty athletics. Young men are given the opportunity to receive a
$20,000.00 scholarship to "compete" in a NCAA division I basketball program. Learning to dedicate yourself to task of winning possessions and games is an issue. Growing a program is more than a quick fix equation at Liberty. Getting a focus on the essential issue of winning requires a change in culture. Learning that individuals who don't pull their weight in a professional organization lose their opportunity is a big step forward.
Our athletes must be put on edge to compete--this is not a spiritual tropical spa but a
huge athletic challenge. We currently struggle with certain areas of talent, toughness and basketball inteligence--yet there is a composition of some real substance that we can
build on. So we are committed to do all that is possible this week to achieve a measure
of success. This team is still working and has a courageous team spirit. The lack of chemistry is derived from the inability to establish consistent performance measures from any body other than Blair. Smith and Porter. As we get to the spring prayerful decisions will be made on what is the best way to move forward. Reacting in an emotional way will
not bring the same level of solution as responding to the genuine needs. Your support and constructive criticism are valued. Be Blessed-coachdunton

[Hold My Own]

but I also think he is aware of some shenanigans and overlooking them. That's why I don't feel like I have a need to go and talk with him as many of you suggest. Why state the obvious?

Wouldnt you want to make his aware of the "Shenanigans" to clear it off your chest and KNOW that he is aware of them and just over looking them, as of right now you only THINK he is aware of them and not doing anything about them...but Thinking doesnt seem to be something you do alot....just man up

[TIMSCAR20]

I have not read all the postings but I have read most of it and it is pretty passionate from both sides. As a former student athelete at Liberty and a former coach at Liberty I have some insight I believe (Sorry Sly for the quick resume). I have to say that there is always going to be judging of people in the spotlight. I used to hear rumors about myself that quite honestly were laughable. I tried to maintain a good testimony because that is my character and my relationship with God personally. I never judged anyone in or out of our program but no team, no team is perfect. Not calling the girls team out or anything but I would be surprised if a team made up of 15 flawed humans (like any and every group in the world throughout all of history) if there weren't some things that we all wouldn't approve of. I don't know either way because I am not around them enough. Yet they have had success. Basically what I am saying is I am not so sure God cares about the outcome of games as much as how his followers behave in their lives. Of course winning and living right would be the perfect scenerio and would maximize the ability to reach people for Christ but that is a utopian viewpoint and not reality. If for 1 day we knew everything about everybody, there probably wouldn't be 1 person on this board or in this world for that matter that would be quick to "cast stones" at their fellow man. In 96-97 our men's team went 23-9 and we lost in the Big South championship game and everyone passed judgement that we lost because our players were not "living right." The truth is we live in the Physical world and we have free will and in sports, the Christians don't always win and the outcome of the game is not based on who is living the best. God doesn't have a balance sheet of morality that weighs in the favor of the team with the most morals. I think it is silly to draw the correlation. I understand unrealized blessings and not getting to the promised land or any other Biblical metaphore that applies. But are you telling me that if Chris Webber, Latrell Sprewell, Isaiah Rider, Dennis Rodman and Wilt Chamberlain (I heard he had a slight problem with womenizing ) were playing at Liberty that we wouldn't win the Big South because they were not living right? I know the players and coaches well and I will say that every practice and every meeting when I was a player, coach, and now when I am around, spiritual issues are talked about. These guys are 18-23 year old young men. Spiritual maturity along with physical and emotional maturity takes time. Kids will make mistakes. The important thing in my mind is that they are in an environment that is teaching the right things and holding them accountable to their actions. Hopefully, down the road, the way they live their lives will be influenced by what the experienced and learned under the guidance of Christian coaches.

[Stevev]

Guest, I agree with everything that you just said. I shared the same comments but I think that I got lost in the shuffle early when these arguments broke out and maybe I was a little off the subject. I think that coach Dunton is very overrated. As I said the only quality win that LU has experienced was the win against Chattanooga 2 years ago at home. That is it, period. We won the BSC 2 years ago on a Winthrop "off year". These quick fixes you are referring to in you post could cause LU to revert back to our "7th worst team in the nation" performance level when these guys graduate or get chased out. This is not how programs are built. This is certainly not what Carey Green is doing with the womens program. As far as the lack of the spiritual side of things I can appreciate you bringing this up because it is important to know these things and I trust that your opinion is accurate since you seem to know what you are talking about and share the same concerns about the program.

[Hold My Own]

I guess you can embrace the guest then, and we'll continue to embrace each other

[Guest]

I think Stevev is out of touch when you can't give credit for the best three run in the program's history. It is always easy to be negative when things are down. Thankfully the Steelers didn't listen to you.

[TallyW]

Deleted by Author

[Stevev]

Whoever made the comment about "the best 3 year run in the programs history" has been seriously deceived. Big time. If you are referring to our position in the Big South it was only due to fact that the rating were very low during that time. It was about 2-5 places from the bottom during that run. The ratings are up this year only due to Winthrop's excellence, and Radford and Birmingham Southern's good performance. There is very little else in the conference right now to speak of. You have to look at the whole picture not just the conference seedings when looking at a teams success. Because last year the same team that was second in the conference also got steamrolled against Maryland, Miami of Ohio, Seton Hall, Arkansas State, lost to pitiful New Hampshire, and almost lost to Shenandoah.

[Guest]

The team went 15-1 at home and 8-8 on the road in conference play. Get out of your foxhole Stevev

[Stevev]

Yes, due in part to the Big South's low ratings (near the bottom). Our poor non-conference performance speaks for itself.

[Hold My Own]

I was looking back a few pages ago and someone said "and dont give me this 2-1-2 crap"

It is much eaiser to debate when you take out the most important aspect...his past record

[Hold My Own]

Calling Sly, clean up on asile "discuss everything coaching here" thread

it wont ever end, I promise Sly

[Sly Fox]

wantsthebest - Thanks for registering.

I believe somewhere back about page 8 or 9 I said I wondered if this thread would ever end. Now I am beginning to believe it will outlive my grandchildren.

For the record, I think much of this debate would be great fodder in The Chapel forum. Some of the theological aspects are exactly the type of topics that would play well there.

[Stevev]

Time for this thread to end right now. I said just about all I have to say. I just hope that the "Guest" I was praising earlier was not the same "Guest" that was "busting my chops" later on.

[Guest]

Stevev do you always disrepect accomplishments? Are you blinded by your own lack of objectivity? Winthrop was suppose to be great the year we won it and drubbed them twice.

[Stevev]

Winthrop was not a healthy team that year when conference play began. No one else in the conference was all that good. But I will give him credit for the Chattanooga win. Time to end this thing.

[Guest]

stevev just don't disrespect the work everyone did to go 26-10 in those two years of conference play. That was an outstanding job by our guys, staff and head coach. Last year woodson was hurt the whole conference and that had a big impact. You'll probably
rather just say poor Winthrop was the only team to suffer though.

[Hold My Own]

the haters on this board have already announced that you cannot use the 2-1-2 argument, therefore I would think that a good record would also be unfair to use in the argument

[fsn32]

Technical question... what happened to Tally's replys... Tally?