[Realist]

...

... What are you actually trying to say

Paradactol,

It says what I meant, I think Peele can take them further, not necessarily b/c he's a better coach than Marshall, but because the program is strong now, has name recognition, can get good recruits, and get better opponents.

[WinthropEagleFan]

It'll be interesting to see what happens at WU...I agree with Realist in that Peele brings different qualities than Marshall to the job. Whether those differences end up helping or hurting the program in the long run remains to be seen. Peele does seem to be a little bit better connected and a little more 'liked' among other coaches, so that should help with scheduling and things like that. Marshall was very good at getting the best out of his players, but at the same time, his intensity pushed some players away (guys like Robbie Waldrop, Josh Grant, and Ivan Jenkins were very good players, but left due to disagreements with Marshall). Peele seems to be a very strong recruiter, and he's brought in two coaches this year who are known as good recruiters in Larry Dixon and Marty McGillan. Like Realist said, the biggest question will come in in-game coaching (which is what I heard from UNCG fans as their biggest gripe with him). Obviously with the change, there are no guarantees that the success seen with Marshall will continue. But at the same time, Peele has had 10 years since his last job (which also happened during a conference change and with a program that played in the equivilant of a large high-school gym) to learn how to improve his shortcomings that he had in his first go-round as a head coach...I'm tentatively excited about the future of the Winthrop program. I realize that Marshall was a special coach and that there is a chance that the successes the program saw with him will be difficult to maintain. But at the same time, the infrastructure is in place (in terms of facility, funding, fan support, and now tradition) for the program to maintain or possibly exceed its past success, so if Peele has indeed taken that next step since his last job, then I think WU will be fine.

[SumItUp]

More VT/LU history. The Vines Center records for attendance has VT in the top 5 I believe. Hildo's team beat Tech I believe as well but I will have to check the books. I know there was one in the Vines that went down to the final play but Tech won.

If my memory serves me correctly, LU lost when Hildo played against VT at the Vines. As the clock expired, Hildo launched a 3 from near half court (hit backboard and maybe rim) for the win. We lost by one or two points.

[paradox]

...

... What are you actually trying to say

Paradactol,

It says what I meant, I think Peele can take them further, not necessarily b/c he's a better coach than Marshall, but because the program is strong now, has name recognition, can get good recruits, and get better opponents.

Again, Winthrop will be good under Peele and competitive in the Big South for as long as he is there. However, starting this year, Winthrop comes back down to earth and becomes just another contender in the Big South. The ride appears over as far as the national scene goes.

You still have Gaynor and Jenkins, but individuals like Marshall, Bradshaw, and Martin are special, and may come along only once in a lifetime in this situation.

....

[shukcb04]

...

... What are you actually trying to say

Paradactol,

It says what I meant, I think Peele can take them further, not necessarily b/c he's a better coach than Marshall, but because the program is strong now, has name recognition, can get good recruits, and get better opponents.

Again, Winthrop will be good under Peele and competitive in the Big South for as long as he is there. However, starting this year, Winthrop comes back down to earth and becomes just another contender in the Big South. The ride appears over as far as the national scene goes.

You still have Gaynor and Jenkins, but individuals like Marshall, Bradshaw, and Martin are special, and may come along only once in a lifetime in this situation.

....

once in a lifetime if you cant recruit. someone will always come along and be able to step in and fill the shoes.

[TDDance234]

...but not to the tune of Bradshaw and Martin. Those guys were special. That's all 'dox is trying to say--Winthrop will still compete and be in the top-3 of the Big South but those guys will never be replaced. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Realist]

...

... What are you actually trying to say

Paradactol,

It says what I meant, I think Peele can take them further, not necessarily b/c he's a better coach than Marshall, but because the program is strong now, has name recognition, can get good recruits, and get better opponents.

Again, Winthrop will be good under Peele and competitive in the Big South for as long as he is there. However, starting this year, Winthrop comes back down to earth and becomes just another contender in the Big South. The ride appears over as far as the national scene goes.

You still have Gaynor and Jenkins, but individuals like Marshall, Bradshaw, and Martin are special, and may come along only once in a lifetime in this situation.

....

Once in a lifetime, I have to laugh at that one. I had no idea Bradshaw and Martin were Durant and Oden in disguise. Tmart and Bradshaw are good players, but they aren't playing in the NBA (yet at least). I'm pretty sure WU will get as good or better players as them in the future.

[olldflame]

I don't begrudge the WU folks here their optomistic outlook one bit. Based on recent past history, they certainly have more reason to expect future success than LU or any other Big South member. Martin and Bradshaw were both very good players; players who could have succeeded at a higher level of college ball. They were not IMHO "once in a lifetime" players; even as a tandom, let alone individually. They were able to get an NCAA win, which was a big step for them and the conference, but nothing earthshattering in the big picture. It pales for instance when compared with what George Mason's group of seniors accomplished.

I think the cold water that can be splashed on the Winthrop optomism is that , while I am certainly an outsider, it is hard for me to see any significant changes in the institution as a whole which would make them any more of a magnet for quality players than they were in the pre-Marshall days. If Peele can take up the torch and run with it, who knows what they may be able to accomplish in the future. If there is any dropoff in the coaching area, I can't see them continuing to be dominant.

Here at LU we have our own vision for future success which a lot of people would categorize as "dreaming." Along with the general feeling that RMc and his staff are well qualified and a really good fit, I think this vision is primarily based on an overall positive vibe about the Athletic Department under JB and the things that make us unique as an institution, particularly the ability to have a nation wide recruiting base as a mid major program.

[PAmedic]

Paradactol,

[paradox]

People talk about running the same system and such. Statements like these are basically meaningless to me. You don't win with "systems." You win with talent and preparation. Greg Marshall was a master in terms of discovering over-looked big-time talent. In addition, he knew how to prepare his teams and put them in a position to win, no matter who they were playing.

I'm sorry, but another coach doesn't just walk in, run the same "system" and mysteriously achieve the same level of success as a Greg Marshall. 99 times out of 100, players like Bradshaw and Martin get discovered by the bigger programs, and end up at schools like the ACC, SEC, and dare I say, the CAA. They fell through the cracks and Marshall was there to scoop them up. Again, Peele is an excellent coach as far as I'm concerned, but we'd be asking for a mammoth task, if we expect to see him match what Marshall has done, let alone surpass it, as some have claimed.

I'd expect Winthrop to be a perennial top-3 in this conference, which is a huge step up from where they were prior to the Marshall era.


....

[horrez]

People talk about running the same system and such. Statements like these are basically meaningless to me. You don't win with "systems." You win with talent and preparation. Greg Marshall was a master in terms of discovering over-looked big-time talent. In addition, he knew how to prepare his teams and put them in a position to win, no matter who they were playing.

I'm sorry, but another coach doesn't just walk in, run the same "system" and mysteriously achieve the same level of success as a Greg Marshall. 99 times out of 100, players like Bradshaw and Martin get discovered by the bigger programs, and end up at schools like the ACC, SEC, and dare I say, the CAA. They fell through the cracks and Marshall was there to scoop them up. Again, Peele is an excellent coach as far as I'm concerned, but we'd be asking for a mammoth task, if we expect to see him match what Marshall has done, let alone surpass it, as some have claimed.

I'd expect Winthrop to be a perennial top-3 in this conference, which is a huge step up from where they were prior to the Marshall era.


....

True, but Peele isn't just walking in. He's been at WU for a while now. He has been a part of the "system". Don't get me wrong, Gregg Marshall is a great coach, but I wouldn't write Peele off just yet. And I think you are giving Marshall a little too much credit about Bradshaw. Don't forget, Bradshaw found Winthrop... not the other way around. Now, Marshall was able to take advantage of his good luck but that is the extent of the credit (as far as bringing Craig to WU).

Any player or coach can be replaced. Does it always happen? No. But CAN it happen? Yes.

[Realist]

And it's not like Craig Bradshaw was some savior the minute he stepped on campus. A lot of people wondered what the heck was he doing on the court his freshman year. Craig developed A LOT. He was pretty much worthless his freshman year, and not too big of a contributor in his soph season either.

Like Horrez said, Peele isn't just coming into the job, he's been doing the job of recruiting and game preparation all along for WU. In fact, Randy Peele was the one who scouted and prepared for Notre Dame. Grant had the job of Oregon.

[WinthropEagleFan]

To talk about the original topic for a minute, I do like that LU is playing games against teams like San Diego State and Fresno State...I think every team in the Big South should make a point of trying to play more teams in the 50-150 RPI range...Those types of games are winnable AND help the RPI (unlike games against the top 25 teams, which are very tough to win, or unlike games against the bottom-100 of the RPI, which hurt your RPI, win or lose).

[shukcb04]

bradshaw and martin are replacable. they were great players, but they aren't michael jordan.

[paradox]

Greg Marshall, was without a doubt, the most successful and greatest coach ever in Big South history.

Martin and Bradshaw are two names that need to be mentioned among the greatest ever to play in this conference.

People like Marshall, Bradshaw, and Martin are not easily replacable. I'd imagine that 10, 20, or even 30 years from now, the team from the last two seasons will still be regarded as the greatest in WU history. Marshall will still be the WU's all-time coach and Bradshaw and Martin will still be first team WU all-timers.

Hopefully, WU's expectations will not remain unrealistically high because you do have a sound coach in Randy Peele, but if the expectations get too puffed up, then he'll eventually get terminated and you may get pushed back even farther

[horrez]

Hopefully, WU's expectations will not remain unrealistically high because you do have a sound coach in Randy Peele, but if the expectations get too puffed up, then he'll eventually get terminated and you may get pushed back even farther

Realistic or not, I expect every team I pull for to win. Sure, it doesn't always happen, but I never expect them to lose. I don't find these expectations unrealistic. But, if they are, then I hope our players and coaches share these unrealistic expectations with me.

I do agree with WEF as far as schedules go. Then again, the games with teams in the 50-150 RPI range can sometimes be the hardest to schedule. Right now I would like for all Big South schools to focus more on winning the schedules that they do put together. Beating a team with a bad RPI can hurt you. Getting beat by a team with a bad RPI can kill you.

[horrez]

I just got a chance to really look at your whole schedule... Am I right in saying that you don't have any home Big South games during Christmas break? At the very least it looks like you won't have to play Winthrop or Radford at home during break. That, along with having a new coaching staff, should go a long way in helping home attendance.

[SuperJon]

You're right in that we don't have any conference games during Christmas break, which is a huge difference over the past two years when our biggest games were in Christmas break.

[Sly Fox]

For the first time in what seems like forever, the Big South did us right when they gave us the dates.

[Fumblerooskies]

Whatever will we do since we can't over Big South bias against LU with the schedule.