[PAmedic]

(exerpts reprinted with permission)

Hey Guys,

I have attached an updated DII schedule, please post on FF.

The [07-08] schedule has also been posted on the official Liberty DI website under "JV Hockey Team" http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=5272

This schedule is a huge leap forward from last year, the guys will be competing against some of the best teams in ACHA DII.
I am told that more games will be added in later going forward.

Smoothie - Any updates on your Dad?
I hope all is well as can be. Our family is praying for your Dad and family.

Coach Jon Fitter has asked Rob Niemi to lead the DII fund-raising campaign and coordinate with all potential sponsors of the D2 team. Please shoot Rob an email with any questions and certainly with any donations! Rob can be reached at rwniemi@liberty.edu.

Coach Fitter is preparing a DII website which should be up before the season starts and after the roster is set after tryouts.

Medic - Any chance we will see you at LaHaye this year?

Thanks guys again for your enthusiastic support of Liberty Hockey, especially the D2 team.
The D2 guys work very hard out of the spotlight and they have a great testimony for Liberty.
Please pray for #15 and all of the lads on both hockey teams on the mountain.

I am looking forward to seeing you at "the Bill" - only 15 days until kick-off.......

Go Flames!

[PAmedic]

the numerous day-to-day issues faced by the ladies' team has been pretty well chronicled- but few know how tough its been on the men's D 2 team as well.

Funding is the major problem- and it has come down to the point where these poor guys are funding their own team out of pocket, and struggling even to arrange transportation to games. As frustrating as it is to hear about it- I can only imagine what its like to worry about operational issues IN ADDITION to competing at this level.

Here's a little "day in the life" of these guys:

• 
  the D2 guys have one van (not a bus) for the eight/nine hour trip to Wagner. (No money for 2 vans, let alone a coach bus.)
  This is one of those vans with the half-height seat backs.
  
  A few of the guys will have to drive their own cars. (Players complain about "bus legs" after a long trip; car legs are worse!)
  *No room on the van means no trainer!!!!!
  
  At home games, they never start before 10:15 PM. Ever. VMI, LC & other college/mens programs have better practice times at LaHaye than the D2 guys (10:15 PM)
  
  They do not have a locker room at Lahaye. There is no place for them to keep their gear so it goes back to the dorms to dry out.
  
  Each player on the team pays $800.00 (and rising) of their own money for the privelige to play. This does not include travel expenses

[BJWilliams]

One of the D2 guys is on my hall and I often see his stuff laying out to dry as I walk up the stairs to my room...it really is a sad thing...hopefully someone can be found to sponsor these very talented teams so that they do not have to pay so much out of pocket cost

[olldflame]

I feel fairly confident I'll be raked over the coals by some for expressing this view, but I have to say I don't have much sympathy. These guys are playing hockey because they love to. It happens to be one of the most expensive sports to play, and they chose it. Noone is under any obligation to support them, and especially 2 club teams at 1 school. I don't know that much about club hockey, but I would imagine the designation D2 would indicate that these are the guys who aren't good enough to make the D1 team. We have guys who play football, basketball, baseball and every other sport on campus who aren't good enough to play D1. Do we start a D2 or D3 program for them and ask people to fund it?

My first thought is that maybe they should get the clue that there is not enough demand (except maybe for playing time) for 2 club hockey teams at a school the size of LU, and thus limited support, so if they want to play that badly, they will just have to pay for it. Then if there aren't enough players willing and able to pay the amount needed to cover ALL costs, the program will come to it's natural demise. As long as we still have a hockey team on campus, I highly doubt that many apart from the players themselves, family and close friends will miss it.

My final point is that there is enough of a history of tragedy among travel teams from LU in vans and cars, ranging from Lacross, to the King's Players to Charles Hughes. I spent many a night driving all night back from a weekend of ministering in vans with fellow students sleeping unrestrained on the seats and floor. Believe me, I prayed a lot that God would keep me awake and alert and guide me. IMHO groups representing this University should not be allowed to travel if they cannot afford the relative safety of a bus.

[PAmedic]

Ok.

I respect your right to express your point of view.

Its elitist, misguided, and rude- but I respect your right to it

seriously- you're probably correct in assuming not many outside of the fans, players and families care- but thats a lot of people. And club sports are vital to the overall atmosphere at any university- let alone a D I school.

finally- no one is suggesting LU underwrite the entire program- rather, a little assistance in securing sponsorship, transport, etc.

BTW: I thing they're calling you back in the hoops forum

[SuperJon]

I agreed with him on most of his stuff. It sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

[PAmedic]

I agreed with him on most of his stuff. It sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

and here is my rebuttal to you:

KISS MY PAHTOOT

[FlameDad]

Oldflame makes very valid points.
SJ = wannabe non-athlete

I submit that ice hockey is different in a few ways.
Most major ACHA programs have a second (JV?) feeder team to help their primary recruiting efforts.
The D2 teams draws decent crowds, from my limited experience more than the women, tennis, wrestling.
One parents weekend they outdrew (sp?) the mens soccer team on a sunny day.
It has been suggested that many students show up just to get a late pass
The guys I know on the team are all dean's list student-athletes and attend a mandatory team bible study/devotional time on top of all of the Liberty activities.
(no skipping convo)

Although I greatly appreciate each one of Medics points, perhaps the best refers to the atmosphere of a D1 university.
Do we want to emulate a PSU or a LC?
Remember these guys wear Liberty colors!

Bottom line is hockey games are great entertainment - students enjoy the cheap entertainment and so does the chancellor!

[SuperJon]

What's with the shot at me just because I disagreed?

People don't realize how lucky our Division 1 hockey team actually is. Most club sports at most schools have to pay the stuff that the Division II team is playing. Does it suck? Yea, it does. However, that's what happens, especially when you're not the top club team in your own sport.

[FlameDad]

Not a shot, just having some fun...
I thought the emoticon thing showed that

Is that the wrong one?

Now get back to your face painting

[bigsmooth]

olldflame makes great points and they are true. it is club hockey...period. if you do not have the funds you do not play. i hate it because i love hockey. maybe the D2 coach and the womens coach can start some type of fund raiser or try to inlist a company to sponsor them. it maybe time to sell more dasher board ads and go 100% corporate to raise funds. the only thing i do disagree with is the other teams getting better ice time.