[Wedowee]

Hi guys. First time visitor here. I come in peace seeking information.

A Bible College, now "Christian University" that I have a bit of a connection to is in the process of starting up a football program. I don't know all the details, but apparently the move is being made to reverse declining male enrollment. Two areas where I am seeking information most is: Will having a football program add to the Bottom Line financially or subtract? And with bringing in football players to a college that was originally founded to train and equip future Christian leaders, will there be guys there just to play football with no regard to the mission of the school?

This is not a set-up question to denigrate Liberty. I want to be armed w information in the event that my alma mater wants to some day start up a football program.

[flameshaw]

With all due respect, I do think this is a "set up" question. One thing you might consider to boost your male enrollment is to boost your female enrollment. Football is great, but you are only going to get 75-85 football players, but girls............ just one hottie could attract 100 potential suitors. That being said, if you make them dress up like school marms, might as well start looking into plans for a football stadium.

[LUconn]

I don't think that many football programs make money. I guess it depends on what level you're looking to play at. Obviously the IA teams make money with their fancy TV contracts and what not. So I figure, you'd lose money. Also, of course you'll get people there that just want to play football. But I'm sure there are people at the school right now that just want to get a degree, or just boost their GPA to transfer, etc. But this is just stuff off the top of my head. I would think if you were going to a Board with this they'd be looking for something a little more tangible than "LUconn said so on the internets".

[LUconn]

also, what do you have planned on the women's side for title IX compliance? I would think that would undo anything you just did for male enrollment. It's tough to afford.

[Libertine]

I also think this is a set-up question but I'll take the bait.

Only a handful of FCS programs and not that many BCS programs actually turn a profit with football. Having a football program is extremely beneficial for public image and advertising for the school -- sorry, WEF, but nothing says elitist or women's college like not having a football team -- , instilling a sense of community and pride within the school itself as well as for boosting overall enrollment. Football costs are high comparative to other sports but starting up a program to boost male enrollment makes a good amount of sense if the school can afford to take the initial financial hit. Besides the guys who would actually be on the team, having a football team draws a lot of male students who otherwise might go somewhere else.

As for the players question, there will always be students, football players included, who enroll at any school -- Christian or otherwise -- with no regard to the mission of the school. If the schools' maintains its standards, those students have to adapt or they don't last very long. The question is more about the focus of the school. Is the school a training ground only or a ministry for reaching people whomever they may be?

[Sly Fox]

Frankly I wish more Christian schools would add football programs. Other than Pillsbury, name me any other Bible colleges with teams. But that's part of what makes Liberty distinctive.

Yes, the football program will have some steep statup costs. You never mentioned whether or not this would be a scholarship program or not. If we are talking Division III or NAIA, it can be done for a rather reasonable cost.

Having a football program does many things for potential male students:

1. Gives a school legitimacy (Yeah, I know it shouldn't but these are 16- and 17-year-old kids we're talking about)
2. Gives young men an event around which to bond that soccer doesn't offer
3. Adds significant dates tot he social calendar for attracting the elusive female species

For what it is worth, North Greenville is attempting to become a little Liberty with football a part of their equation. That's not to be considered an endorsement of any kind.

[bigsmooth]

i guess im still sleeping, but what is FCS??

[Sly Fox]

The countdown to Medic's rant begins immediately.



Football Championship Subdivision

[SuperJon]

That text still isn't as small as LUconn's Radford Sucks text.

[bigsmooth]

oh you mean I-AA??? i will ALWAYS call it that.

[ATrain]

Resistance is futile Smoothie, one day you will assimilate

[SuperJon]

You just tried to sound a lot smarter than we all know you are.

[WinthropEagleFan]

-- sorry, WEF, but nothing says elitist or women's college like not having a football team --

Well, Winthrop was a women's college for most of its history, so it's not like we don't already hear that (the women's college thing, not the elitist thing) at Winthrop anyway. And that history is a big reason why there isn't football there now. For some reason, an alumni base made up of mostly old women, most of whom became teachers, isn't the type of alumni base that is really condusive (sp?) to raising enough money/interest to start a football program. I think that will change one day...but there's nothing that can be done to change that history and the alumni demographics, at least not in the short-term.

Though the idea of bringing in football to bring more males to the school may be one reason Winthrop would eventually get a football program. The female/male ratio has stayed steady at 70/30 for at least the ten years, and doesn't seem to be budging, which is good in some ways, but I'm sure the administration would like to have it more around 60/40 if they could.

[ATrain]

You just tried to sound a lot smarter than we all know you are.

No, thats actually butchering a couple quotes from the SciFi realm to make it say what I wanted

[bigsmooth]

no....it will always be I-AA to me.

[PAmedic]

i guess im still sleeping, but what is FCS??

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

friggin Whaler fans

(BTW- did you catch the Flyers v. Carolina game the other nite )

sorry- back to the topic

[4everfsu]

Pillsbury used to have a football team, but no more, schools like Maranatha Baptist Bible college, Trinity Bible college and Crown college (MN) have football teams. Also North Greenville college has a football team and Kentucky Christian Univ just started a football program this year, hoping to start play next year or the year after. Those are the christian colleges I can think of off the top of my head with football teams.

[El Scorcho]

I don't think many people read this when I posted it in the other thread, since it had "Flutie" in the title, but The Economist published an article today talking about why universities pay for football programs. This is it:

Flutie effect

Posted by: Economist.com | NEW YORK
Posted at: 19:27 GMT +00:00
Categories: Education

ON NEW YEARS DAY, many Americans took part in the annual tradition of watching universities play American football. College sports in the US are a multi-billion dollar industry, and almost as popular as professional teams.

This raises an interesting question: why are America's institutions of higher learning also operating semi-professional sports franchises? Especially since overall, the athletics department is a money-losing proposition for most schools. They also bring down the value of the university's core "product", as schools offer places and often lavish scholarships to academically unqualified student athletes.

Perhaps the most surprising reason is that research indicates these less than academic athletes may increase the quality and graduation rates of other students.

The popularity of a successful sports team acts as advertisement for the university. This encourages more students to apply to it; a phenomenon known as the “Flutie effect”. This is a reference to Boston College’s Doug Flutie, whose miraculous pass in a 1984 football game contributed to a dramatic victory over the University of Miami. This play led to a large increase in applicants to Boston College the following year. The long-term impact on university admissions from the Flutie effect is uncertain. Maintaining the popularity that comes with a successful sports team involves a tremendous amount of resources and luck. Economists are divided on the degree and long term impact of the Flutie effect.

Irvin Tucker has found a significant and positive correlation between a university having a successful football team and higher quality of incoming freshmen, alumni donations, and graduation rates. Mr Tucker and and Ted Amato found in a later paper that these variables are not affected by a successful basketball team, but there exists a positive correlation between having a basketball team that participates in a major conference, and higher average student SAT scores.

An NCAA commissioned a study by Robert Litan, Jonathan Orszag and Peter Orszag (the new head of the CBO) found no relationship between university spending on athletics and an increase in student quality. However, athletic spending is a less than ideal measure of a renowned spots program. Universities may spend years investing in a team before experiencing a successful season that generates national exposure. The sample Messrs Litan, Orszag, and Orszag used had only eight years of data. They did find a positive correlation between that the percentage of team wins and the SAT scores of incoming students.

University quality might also be enhanced by another channel. Bigger alumni donations translate into improving facilities and a larger, better faculty. Mr Tucker attempted to test for this by looking for a relationship between faculty publications in top economic journals and football success; alas he found none. Though this does not mean athletics don’t improve the quality of faculty members; many economists do not care for football. Perhaps he should have looked at the chess team.

http://www.economist.com/debate/freeexc ... effect.cfm

[Purple Haize]

For starters, a football team is a HUGE financial drain on all but the most elite D1 schools. So, understand that the university/college will have to probably re adjust its financial priorities. Also, if this is an NCAA institiution, don't forget Title IX (NAIA usually flies under the radar, but you never know). As for training leaders etc. no more, no less than any other athletic program on campus.
As for Christian colleges with football, there are quite a few. (Although I did enjoy the Pilsbury reference. Have some funny stories from THAT place) Just look in the midwest. Taylor University is a pretty big name chrisitain school with a team. As is Olivet Nazerene, Trinity International etc. So they are out there.

[Hold My Own]

Hi guys. First time visitor here. I come in peace seeking information.

A Bible College, now "Christian University" that I have a bit of a connection to is in the process of starting up a football program. I don't know all the details, but apparently the move is being made to reverse declining male enrollment. Two areas where I am seeking information most is: Will having a football program add to the Bottom Line financially or subtract? And with bringing in football players to a college that was originally founded to train and equip future Christian leaders, will there be guys there just to play football with no regard to the mission of the school?

This is not a set-up question to denigrate Liberty. I want to be armed w information in the event that my alma mater wants to some day start up a football program.

If you do some research, its nuts to see how much a football program costs the school...and not only at the I-AA level, I've seen studies that show I-A programs losing money unless in the top 25...one thing you cant put a number on is the fact that students are likely to attend a University with a football program...surveys prove that...personally, I think if a University's numbers are suffering then it could be pin pointed to 100 different things that could help before a football program...now if your biggest problem was not having prestige or being looked at in the same light football would be higher on the list