[olldflame]

If Calvert has the day against RMU that Masha had against Jax then this board will lose itself over how amazing Calvert is at QB.

PH - it's much easier to justify losing to CSU with a true Fr QB than a R-Jr. Beating everyone else in the BSC is supposed to be a given. Also, Masha was not given years to prove himself. He rode the pine behind "the greatest QB to play for Liberty" and proved what he could do in 2 games because he had to and the coaching staff didn't have a choice. The lack of development of SM from there on out is beyond frustrating.

Forbidden - I know I have disagreed with you a lot on the QB discussion, but I think we both agree SM was not set up for success.

whoooooohh... Greatest QB in LU history? Really? We've had some pretty good QB's - Peterson really help Woodrum out.

I think I can safely say those were sarcasm quotation marks

[Purple Haize]

I'd put money on it that Masha won't be on the team next year and I don't really blame him. The staff has yanked him around since he got here and never truly believed in him.

It's possible that maybe he just isn't that good?

It totally is. And I don't think he's a guy that can run a traditional offense. But it seems like they never even gave him a shot. They decided a long time ago he would never be the guy. That's why no matter how bad Woodrum was, there was never any shot at Masha coming in even for a series. This year they're showing they wanted to go to Calvert from the beginning of the year but he wasn't ready.

Masha had a lot of time to prove himself. You even lamented the fact he was given too many opportunities THIS YEAR. He's had years in the Program to show coaches what he could do. Yes he played behind Woodrum but so what? He still had practice. He still had Spring Ball. He still had ample opportunity over the years and this season to show what he could or could not do. Calvert is just better. At worst he is currently equal with more upside. To say Masha was 'sabotaged' or not given a chance is absolutely ludicrous. The fact they stuck with Woodrum would lend credence to the fact that Gill wants to stick with the guy whose been around the longest.
Masha had his chances. He didn't impress the coaches. It doesn't make him less of a person. I hope he sticks around but understands if he doesn't.

[LUnpretty11]

Jon, your question may be geared more toward this year alone. I think back to 2014 when Woodrum would run the option down the line of scrimmage where it wasn't a 1v1 scenario. I know Woodrum was bigger than Masha, but it doesn't add up. Not to mention, Masha isn't exactly a twig. In fact, the dude is jacked and is in perfect shape to take on LBs/hits.

Proto, that's why I put it in quotes. There was underlying sarcasm, but many people actually believe that statement. Woodrum is top 5 LU QB, no doubt, but I'm not convinced he can be dubbed LU GOAT.

Olldflame is spot on. This further proves the coaching staff has done a horrible job positioning Masha for success. There is nothing "up-tempo" about our no huddle offense. It's an unorganized pro-style offense that operates out of a no huddle. We call no offensive plays that resemble an up-tempo offense, let alone in any strategic sequence.

In summation, I don't believe for a second that Masha is as bad as he has shown this year.

[Wvflame2013]

Jon, your question may be geared more toward this year alone. I think back to 2014 when Woodrum would run the option down the line of scrimmage where it wasn't a 1v1 scenario. I know Woodrum was bigger than Masha, but it doesn't add up. Not to mention, Masha isn't exactly a twig. In fact, the dude is jacked and is in perfect shape to take on LBs/hits.

Proto, that's why I put it in quotes. There was underlying sarcasm, but many people actually believe that statement. Woodrum is top 5 LU QB, no doubt, but I'm not convinced he can be dubbed LU GOAT.

Olldflame is spot on. This further proves the coaching staff has done a horrible job positioning Masha for success. There is nothing "up-tempo" about our no huddle offense. It's an unorganized pro-style offense that operates out of a no huddle. We call no offensive plays that resemble an up-tempo offense, let alone in any strategic sequence.

In summation, I don't believe for a second that Masha is as bad as he has shown this year.

True. Maybe Masha is not as bad as he seems. Maybe he is a product of a horribly organized offense. Maybe that's why Woodrum had such an awful year last year.

[Jonathan Carone]

Jon, your question may be geared more toward this year alone. I think back to 2014 when Woodrum would run the option down the line of scrimmage where it wasn't a 1v1 scenario. I know Woodrum was bigger than Masha, but it doesn't add up. Not to mention, Masha isn't exactly a twig. In fact, the dude is jacked and is in perfect shape to take on LBs/hits.

My question wasn't really year specific. I'm just trying to get an understanding behind what the coaching staff is saying they're doing because it doesn't really match up with what they've said/done in the past.

[forbidden]

Last year you had bad line play with pretty predictable playcalling, this year u have bad line play and a new OC whose offense has been hamstrung by the bad line play, as well as bad QB play. How was he sabotaged not one Coach threw his INT's that would have kept him on the field and under center.
This offense WAS NOT tailored for any one individual it was designed to be quick hitting catch and run. Louisville we are NOT. SM not running is on him imo tryna be more of a pocket style QB instead of who is is was and what got him here, and thata on him, just as much as the offensive staff

[Wvflame2013]

Last year you had bad line play with pretty predictable playcalling, this year u have bad line play and a new OC whose offense has been hamstrung by the bad line play, as well as bad QB play. How was he sabotaged not one Coach threw his INT's that would have kept him on the field and under center.
This offense WAS NOT tailored for any one individual it was designed to be quick hitting catch and run. Louisville we are NOT. SM not running is on him imo tryna be more of a pocket style QB instead of who is is was and what got him here, and thata on him, just as much as the offensive staff

How do you know that SM has even been given the keys to run the ball? Ever since Woodrum got hurt at the end of 2014, its seems there has been a change in philosophy of a running qb.

[BJWilliams]

WHen you run a no-huddle fast paced offense, you need to have two or three play calls ready to go. What made the "blur offense" under Chip Kelly so effective is they could have two or three play calls for every situation (using that wild system of boards and icons that I don't think anyone ever truly deciphered) regardless of down and distance so all they had to do is run the play, go right to the line if that play didn't break for a TD and call another one and keep going until they either punt or score (and when you average 4 punts a game like they did in 2012 that first one doesn't happen often). Delay of game penalties are rare because the players understand the code and know their assignments regardless of play AND usually, by the time the ball is snapped, there are still 20-30 seconds on the play clock. As I said in either this discussion or another one (I forget which), if I was the OC, I would be doing a LOT of homework on how that style of offense works. Me personally I would fly out to Oregon (or San Francisco really since Chip Kelly is there now) and take as much time as I needed to soak up every bit of information on that style of offense...I would be poring over film of players who run that style of offense (or something similar) from the quarterback to the right guard and actively recruiting those players and then I would make sure within the rules to teach and instruct the current players in that style as well so that they can be up to speed when the recruits come in as well.

[Jonathan Carone]

Can we stop with the Oregon references and talking about flying out to Oregon? You're using one example of an up-tempo offense when there are multiple versions all across the country.

You also assume Dailey hasn't been to places or watched loads of film on other up-tempo offenses. What do you think he did all off season? Play Candy Crush?

[Wvflame2013]

WHen you run a no-huddle fast paced offense, you need to have two or three play calls ready to go. What made the "blur offense" under Chip Kelly so effective is they could have two or three play calls for every situation (using that wild system of boards and icons that I don't think anyone ever truly deciphered) regardless of down and distance so all they had to do is run the play, go right to the line if that play didn't break for a TD and call another one and keep going until they either punt or score (and when you average 4 punts a game like they did in 2012 that first one doesn't happen often). Delay of game penalties are rare because the players understand the code and know their assignments regardless of play AND usually, by the time the ball is snapped, there are still 20-30 seconds on the play clock. As I said in either this discussion or another one (I forget which), if I was the OC, I would be doing a LOT of homework on how that style of offense works. Me personally I would fly out to Oregon (or San Francisco really since Chip Kelly is there now) and take as much time as I needed to soak up every bit of information on that style of offense...I would be poring over film of players who run that style of offense (or something similar) from the quarterback to the right guard and actively recruiting those players and then I would make sure within the rules to teach and instruct the current players in that style as well so that they can be up to speed when the recruits come in as well.

BJ is completely right. I would add that a fast tempo offense must have a smart qb to know what he is seeing and make quick decisions with so called 3/4 plays. I'm not sure if we have that in SM and Calvert is rather young. How many times did Jacksonville, hurry up and they caught us with our players in the wrong place which led to a blown coverage?

[Cider Jim]

if I was the OC, I would be doing a LOT of homework on how that style of offense works. Me personally I would fly out to Oregon...

Reminds me of the We Are Marshall movie when the new Herd coach drove up to Morgantown to learn the Veer Offense from Bobby Bowden at WVU.

[Purple Haize]

if I was the OC, I would be doing a LOT of homework on how that style of offense works. Me personally I would fly out to Oregon...

Reminds me of the We Are Marshall movie when the new Herd coach drove up to Morgantown to learn the Veer Offense from Bobby Bowden at WVU.

We can always learn from WVU. I'm not a huge Holgerson fan but it's a much shorter trip and he runs a very up tempo offense. If only he had a QB over 5'5" and a defense!
But BJ has got to get over his Oregon crush. Even at their best they didn't win a National Title. And they have every monetary and facility advantage there is to have!

[BJWilliams]

The thing is PH, West Virginia never won a national championship with Bobby Bowden (he didn't win his first until he got down to Tallahassee) either....but they ran the style of offense that Jack Lengyel wanted to run down at Marshall. While the circumstances obviously aren't the same, my underlying point is that if I want to learn about how to run a particular style of offense, why not learn everything I can from someone who ran it all the time

[Purple Haize]

The thing is PH, West Virginia never won a national championship with Bobby Bowden (he didn't win his first until he got down to Tallahassee) either....but they ran the style of offense that Jack Lengyel wanted to run down at Marshall. While the circumstances obviously aren't the same, my underlying point is that if I want to learn about how to run a particular style of offense, why not learn everything I can from someone who ran it all the time

Several reasons
That person may have access to personnel and resources I never will
Another coach may have adapted it in a manner that fits what my personnel or resources are
Another coach may have tweaked it in a way I like better
The coach who developed it may suck at teaching it

Would you like more reasons?

[Jonathan Carone]

Beej has made 18 references to either Oregon's offense or uniforms since Gill took over.

[BJWilliams]

No that'll do PH...given that is your opinion on the matter which is fine by me. that said, I would handle it the way I want to handle it and if that isn't your way...that's fine.

Now I will say that as to Oregon's uniforms, Im not a huge fan. I don't mind updating from time to time but you don't need to have 5,000 different uniform combinations and change them every year (heck we have 27 and I think that is a tad much). Also...why the heck are you taking the time to count the number of references I made to them?

[Jonathan Carone]

It's called the search function. I did it while pumping gas. It doesn't take long.

[LUnpretty11]

....

Olldflame is spot on. This further proves the coaching staff has done a horrible job positioning Masha for success. There is nothing "up-tempo" about our no huddle offense. It's an unorganized pro-style offense that operates out of a no huddle. We call no offensive plays that resemble an up-tempo offense, let alone in any strategic sequence.

In summation, I don't believe for a second that Masha is as bad as he has shown this year.

True. Maybe Masha is not as bad as he seems. Maybe he is a product of a horribly organized offense. Maybe that's why Woodrum had such an awful year last year.

There may be some truth to this. HCTG made OC changes after last year, but I think it runs deeper than that. You don't redo an offensive philosophy and gear it toward a QB to only do the opposite.

Forbidden, I can appreciate how much your post sounded like Yoda, love it much do I. Anyway, it is hard to miss that SM has not been coached to his capabilities. The man was incredibly efficient in his first 2 starts with little preparation prior to the games. This proves to me that he stepped in and played his game and felt comfortable doing it. The coaches didn't have enough time to reign him in and limit what he could do and it showed. Also, 2 of his INTs went through receivers hands and at least 2 more were wrong routes by WRs, but those facts are just semantics. The man has 7 INTs through 4 games and that's unacceptable by everyone's standards. I would, however, argue that there are only 3 INTs that are his fault, but that's just a dumb fan, who knows nothing about football because I'm not a coach, coming to his defense, right?

The facts are clear. SM is a great athlete and very capable QB who has not been trusted or provided the same opportunity as prior QBs before him. HCTG is trying to prepare for the 2018 Playoffs and that's where we find ourselves.

I like Calvert. The kid is a great talent and has an undeniably strong arm. However, he has not proven anything to me (to this point) that says we should give up on SM and hand it all over to Calvert. I don't completely disagree with the decision to start Calvert against RMU because it allows him to get good game experience prior to the bye week leading into conference play - I see the logic. However, I disagree wholeheartedly with how the staff has handled the QB situation to this point.

[Jonathan Carone]

How much of 2016 Masha had to do with him looking over his shoulder knowing if he screws up he's done? In 2014, he knew he was our only option and just went out and played football.

[BJWilliams]

The other thing is from what I can tell, Coach Dailey didn't really do all his homework when it came to transitioning from the style of offense we ran before to the no huddle style they mentioned back in the spring. If he was named the OC last fall/winter, that is more than enough time to learn everything that was needed and then evaluate the existing personnel as well as the incoming players to ensure success even as they were in the first year with that style this fall.

[olldflame]

If Calvert has the day against RMU that Masha had against Jax then this board will lose itself over how amazing Calvert is at QB.

PH - it's much easier to justify losing to CSU with a true Fr QB than a R-Jr. Beating everyone else in the BSC is supposed to be a given. Also, Masha was not given years to prove himself. He rode the pine behind "the greatest QB to play for Liberty" and proved what he could do in 2 games because he had to and the coaching staff didn't have a choice. The lack of development of SM from there on out is beyond frustrating.

Forbidden - I know I have disagreed with you a lot on the QB discussion, but I think we both agree SM was not set up for success.

whoooooohh... Greatest QB in LU history? Really? We've had some pretty good QB's - Peterson really help Woodrum out.

Woodrum's name appears prominently in the record books in one general category CAREER records He isn't close to the best in single game and single season numbers He started for 4 years, and had the advantage of a year of maturity from redshirting as a FR

[Purple Haize]

The other thing is from what I can tell, Coach Dailey didn't really do all his homework when it came to transitioning from the style of offense we ran before to the no huddle style they mentioned back in the spring. If he was named the OC last fall/winter, that is more than enough time to learn everything that was needed and then evaluate the existing personnel as well as the incoming players to ensure success even as they were in the first year with that style this fall.

Maybe it was the players that didn't do the homework

[LUnpretty11]

How much of 2016 Masha had to do with him looking over his shoulder knowing if he screws up he's done? In 2014, he knew he was our only option and just went out and played football.

You don't ever do that if you are coached well.

[Purple Haize]

How much of 2016 Masha had to do with him looking over his shoulder knowing if he screws up he's done? In 2014, he knew he was our only option and just went out and played football.

You don't ever do that if you are coached well.

You'd be surprised what players do regardless of how they are coached

[Jonathan Carone]

I have a real hard time claiming a coach didn't prepare. These guys work their butts off. I'm okay questioning results and tactics but I draw the line at work ethic.