[thepostman]

So if a group of people who are Methodists don’t like the teachings of the Methodist Church, attempt to get the rules changed and fail, why don’t they just make a clean break and start their own thing?

The Methodist Church is not like Baptist churches where the LOCAL congregation is autonomous. The denomination hires the pastoral staff. The denomination owns the building. A "clean break" is much harder to do.

ahhh, thanks for clarifying that. I had no idea. That makes a lot more sense knowing that.

[Jonathan Carone]

So if a group of people who are Methodists don’t like the teachings of the Methodist Church, attempt to get the rules changed and fail, why don’t they just make a clean break and start their own thing?

The Methodist Church is not like Baptist churches where the LOCAL congregation is autonomous. The denomination hires the pastoral staff. The denomination owns the building. A "clean break" is much harder to do.

It's similar to the Presbyterian church in that regard.

I actually just finished working with a Presbyterian Church who had to deal with something like this. Back in 2006, they voted to leave PCUSA (who was moving more liberal) and move to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. They had to go through lawsuits to get ownership of their building and land because technically PCUSA owned it all.

[Tnobes]

Truth be known, they are not churches. They're just people meeting on Sunday mornings. A church is a body of believers.

So you are now judging who are and are not Believers now. Interesting

They are showing that they are not believers by not believing what the Bible says, it's not "judging them" Even though the Bible tells us to judge.

[Tnobes]

Unfortunately more on here than not are likely in ball coach’s camp when it comes to women in ministry.

Women in ministry and women as pastors are two very separate issues. I have never met anyone who is against women in ministry

[Jonathan Carone]

ballcoach wants women to stay quiet. Pretty sure you can't be in ministry and be quiet.

[thepostman]

Since @ballcoach15 won't answer my question maybe you will @Tnobes . How do women remain silent if they are in a ministry role? Why is it interpreted that women can use their voice in ministry roles but not in pastoral roles? This is an honest question and I would love to get an honest answer.

[Tnobes]

According to my Bible, women cannot be Pastors.
How can a woman be a Pastor, if they must remain silent in the church ? A silent pastor is of no help to the flock.

A church with a woman pastor is not a bible preaching church.

Hope all your clothes are of a single fabric, per Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11

Here is a related article on that https://thecripplegate.com/shellfish-mi ... -choosing/

[Tnobes]

God help him if he studies who the author of Hebrews might have been.

It's Paul, there is no "might have been"

[Tnobes]

Ballcoach, do you believe in female missionaries that serve in churches, or should all missionaries be male?

Yes, women can serve in churches, they just cannot be the Pastor.

But how can they remain silent and serve at the same time? There are holes in your theology that you aren't filling in because you refuse to look at culture, timeline and context.

The verse doesn't mean remain silent like zip their lip when they enter the building. Of course you already knew that

[Tnobes]

Since @ballcoach15 won't answer my question maybe you will @Tnobes . How do women remain silent if they are in a ministry role? Why is it interpreted that women can use their voice in ministry roles but not in pastoral roles? This is an honest question and I would love to get an honest answer.

[thepostman]

Yes, women can serve in churches, they just cannot be the Pastor.

But how can they remain silent and serve at the same time? There are holes in your theology that you aren't filling in because you refuse to look at culture, timeline and context.

The verse doesn't mean remain silent like zip their lip when they enter the building. Of course you already knew that

I really don't know that. I am not trying to be difficult but why is that line so obvious? The church at that time had women and men sitting on opposite sides of the church from one another but that isn't how church is done today. So why was that change ok, but not others? Why is that so obvious? I don't think it is which is why this is an issue that is debated.

Again this is not a doctrine worth losing sleep over. I am just trying to get a better understanding as to why you and ballcoach believe what you believe.

I am just trying to have a real discussion but clearly you and ballcoach aren't interested in that. I do appreciate you providing a video and I will watch it when I'm not at work.

[Tnobes]

This is not a hill to die on one way or another but there is more scripture backing women can't be lead pastors and none saying that they can. Being a pastor is very different than being a missionary or Sunday school teacher or youth leader or children's ministry leader, or serving on various committees. I have no problem with churches that have female pastors by the way, I have served along side female pastors. Senior pastors I believe is a different story. This is not a salvation issue and I have no problem with people coming down on different sides of this but ball coach doesn't need to be pilled on over this

[ballcoach15]

There is a difference between "in ministry " and pastor. Normally churches have 1 pastor, but have lots of people in ministry.

[Tnobes]

Great commission is for everyone, evangelism is for everyone, being a missionary is for everyone, the role of pastor is very specific

[adam42381]

God help him if he studies who the author of Hebrews might have been.

It's Paul, there is no "might have been"

Most Bible scholars would disagree. They're nearly unanimous in their opinion that the author was not Paul. Who authored it is a different story.

[Tnobes]

How did we move from Homosexual agenda and the Methodist Church splitting to women in ministry tangent?

[Jonathan Carone]

How did we move from Homosexual agenda and the Methodist Church splitting to women in ministry tangent?

ballcoach

[Tnobes]

God help him if he studies who the author of Hebrews might have been.

It's Paul, there is no "might have been"

Most Bible scholars would disagree. They're nearly unanimous in their opinion that the author was not Paul. Who authored it is a different story.

And most Bible scholars are taught at seminaries who don't believe in God or the Bible being a divine book. A Bible scholar is the last place I would look for insight into the Bible. Most Bible scholars would tell you that Jonah was not swallowed by a whale, there was no global flood, there was no red Sea crossing and there is no such thing as the Virgin birth

[Purple Haize]

There is a difference between "in ministry " and pastor. Normally churches have 1 pastor, but have lots of people in ministry.

I see you are evolving your position. Interesting

[Purple Haize]

It's Paul, there is no "might have been"

Most Bible scholars would disagree. They're nearly unanimous in their opinion that the author was not Paul. Who authored it is a different story.

And most Bible scholars are taught at seminaries who don't believe in God or the Bible being a divine book. A Bible scholar is the last place I would look for insight into the Bible. Most Bible scholars would tell you that Jonah was not swallowed by a whale, there was no global flood, there was no red Sea crossing and there is no such thing as the Virgin birth

Hmmm. I must have attended a different Seminary. So must have my friends.

[Jonathan Carone]

Pretty sure Liberty teaches that the author is unknown and despite our faults, we believe the Bible.

[Tnobes]

Most Bible scholars would disagree. They're nearly unanimous in their opinion that the author was not Paul. Who authored it is a different story.

And most Bible scholars are taught at seminaries who don't believe in God or the Bible being a divine book. A Bible scholar is the last place I would look for insight into the Bible. Most Bible scholars would tell you that Jonah was not swallowed by a whale, there was no global flood, there was no red Sea crossing and there is no such thing as the Virgin birth

Hmmm. I must have attended a different Seminary. So must have my friends.

Clearly you don't understand the word "most". I can count on one hand the seminaries that believe the Bible. Most of the time going to seminary makes you less educated on the Bible.

[thepostman]

Most? Please explain. That is a very strong statement to make. Of course there are seminaries that have lost their way but to suggest most don't teach the Bible isn't something that you could possibly prove.

[Tnobes]

Pretty sure Liberty teaches that the author is unknown and despite our faults, we believe the Bible.

Teaching the author is unknown is far from teaching that the author isn't Paul, and teaching that everyone before 1800 was wrong is a pretty arrogant position

[Tnobes]

Most? Please explain. That is a very strong statement to make. Of course there are seminaries that have lost their way but to suggest most don't teach the Bible isn't something that you could possibly prove.

Easily provable. Ask a professor at any given seminary if they believe in billions of years and you will have your answer. My seminary North Park stopped being Christian long ago