[mrmacphisto]

I don't think it's a matter of RA's being in the ILRC, either. When someone breaks the rules, the ILRC lab attendants ask them to quit, and then if they don't, they're asked to leave. Unfortunately the only people who can physically enforce someone being asked to leave are LUPD officers, not RA's or the ILRC staff. So, unless LUPD wanted to be involved in campus security, the ILRC was stuck.

I wasn't saying it was a matter of RAs in the ILRC. I said it was a matter of concentration and enforcement capability. Let's use another example. Take all the criminals in America and put them in a small town. The local law enforcement wouldn't be able to control the crime. Redistribute the criminals across the country and it becomes an easier task, since all areas and branches of law enforcement are working on it.

LUPD aside, ILRC staff and RAs are also a branch of law enforcement. When there are more enforcers on the job, you have less violations. This is partly why you don't see as much trouble during regular hours at the ILRC, and exactly why you don't see this sort of thing in the dorms. It's a numbers problem.

[El Scorcho]

LUPD aside, ILRC staff and RAs are also a branch of law enforcement. When there are more enforcers on the job, you have less violations.

They're a branch of law enforcement that's limited, by law, in their ability to enforce. That's why you can't just put LUPD aside. It doesn't matter if every RA on campus was in the lab at night. If they ask someone to leave, and that person refuses, the only people who can do anything about that are LUPD officers.

[PeterParker]

mrmacphisto wrote:

ILRC staff and RAs are also a branch of law enforcement.

Now that's a new one; when do they start issuing the berettas? So do RA's have to read Miranda rights before issuing reps these days?

(Just couldn't pass this one up ) The view from outside the bubble is quite refreshing, I believe.

Okay, back to your computer lab Jets and Sharks squabbles.

[mrmacphisto]

LUPD aside, ILRC staff and RAs are also a branch of law enforcement. When there are more enforcers on the job, you have less violations.

They're a branch of law enforcement that's limited, by law, in their ability to enforce. That's why you can't just put LUPD aside. It doesn't matter if every RA on campus was in the lab at night. If they ask someone to leave, and that person refuses, the only people who can do anything about that are LUPD officers.

Your argument doesn't really address mine, as it assumes that a situation will always result in someone being asked to leave. Granted, only a cop could physically force someone to leave the ILRC, but the last time I checked, LU was well within the jurisdiction of LPD as well.

My point is that the presence of more enforcers would reduce the number of situations where someone is asked to leave the lab. You can't expect me to believe that the dorms wouldn't be absolute madhouses without the RAs. Contrary to the belief you seem to be suggesting, the threat of reps and fines does discourage disorderly behavior. When you prevent an incident in which a police officer would be needed, you eliminate the need for the police officer.

[El Scorcho]

Your argument doesn't really address mine, as it assumes that a situation will always result in someone being asked to leave. Granted, only a cop could physically force someone to leave the ILRC, but the last time I checked, LU was well within the jurisdiction of LPD as well.

My point is that the presence of more enforcers would reduce the number of situations where someone is asked to leave the lab. You can't expect me to believe that the dorms wouldn't be absolute madhouses without the RAs. Contrary to the belief you seem to be suggesting, the threat of reps and fines does discourage disorderly behavior. When you prevent an incident in which a police officer would be needed, you eliminate the need for the police officer.

Oh, but it does address yours. ILRC staff are not capable of giving reps. They have no power to enforce the rules of the lab, other than to ask. If they don't want to obey the rules, they are asked to leave. If they don't leave, they are supposed to call LUPD. LUPD then says "Sorry, but we don't have time to deal with this tonight." This was the problem.

As for the RA's, the threats of reps and fines from them are just as useless as the ILRC staff asking students to obey the rules. An RA says "Hey you. Do what the ILRC employee is asking." (In a much more nice and tactful manner, of course.) The student causing the problem says "No, thank you." The RA says "May I please see your ID, then?" The student says "No, thank you." The RA may ask a second time, and they will again be refused. At this point, I believe the RA is also supposed to contact LUPD for physical enforcement. Again, this was the problem.

I was a full-time, 40 hours-a-week supervisor in the ILRC for a year and a half. Don't tell me it doesn't happen.

[mrmacphisto]

Your argument doesn't really address mine, as it assumes that a situation will always result in someone being asked to leave. Granted, only a cop could physically force someone to leave the ILRC, but the last time I checked, LU was well within the jurisdiction of LPD as well.

My point is that the presence of more enforcers would reduce the number of situations where someone is asked to leave the lab. You can't expect me to believe that the dorms wouldn't be absolute madhouses without the RAs. Contrary to the belief you seem to be suggesting, the threat of reps and fines does discourage disorderly behavior. When you prevent an incident in which a police officer would be needed, you eliminate the need for the police officer.

Oh, but it does address yours. ILRC staff are not capable of giving reps. They have no power to enforce the rules of the lab, other than to ask. If they don't want to obey the rules, they are asked to leave. If they don't leave, they are supposed to call LUPD. LUPD then says "Sorry, but we don't have time to deal with this tonight." This was the problem.

As for the RA's, the threats of reps and fines from them are just as useless as the ILRC staff asking students to obey the rules. An RA says "Hey you. Do what the ILRC employee is asking." (In a much more nice and tactful manner, of course.) The student causing the problem says "No, thank you." The RA says "May I please see your ID, then?" The student says "No, thank you." The RA may ask a second time, and they will again be refused. At this point, I believe the RA is also supposed to contact LUPD for physical enforcement. Again, this was the problem.

I was a full-time, 40 hours-a-week supervisor in the ILRC for a year and a half. Don't tell me it doesn't happen.

This one actually did address my argument. I'm aware that the ILRC staff can't give out reps, but the buck doesn't stop at LUPD. If the students are breaking the law (and essentially, in this case, they are) and will not remove themselves from the ILRC, the ILRC staff are well within their rights to call LPD when LUPD will not respond.

I still credit the RAs with the lower rate of incidents in the dorms. Not only is it less concentrated, but the offenders are more easily identified.

There are no easy solutions, but as I stated earlier and stand by, the easiest would be to eliminate curfew. The main reason there were so many problems in the ILRC was because it was the only place open. That's not an excuse, that's the simple truth.