[El Scorcho]

I'm just curious to see if any of the FF faithful have opinions, thoughts, etc. on Rob Bell's ministries. I was introduced to Bell through the nooma DVD's, as I imagine a lot of people were. The more I've listed to stuff from him and his ministry, the more I'm certain that I share a worldview and approach to my faith with him. While I think it's quite a bit different from what a lot of churches are teaching today, I haven't found anything fundamentally flawed or wrong about his teaching. It's just different, which I think a lot of "brickianity" Christians have trouble with.

So, if anyone has any thoughts and/or experiences, I'm curious.

Now, I'm fairly certain I can already ascertain the opinion of those of you who still firmly believe rock music is of the devil and women should never wear pants. So, to be clear, I'm not asking you.

[RagingTireFire]

My initial impression of Bell is that he has some very valid points but he teaches them in an indiscriminate, therefore irresponsible, manner. Well, I say teach but he doesn't really teach, he asks questions. If you're going to make someone question their faith and its tenets, you should be reasonably sure that they are aware of what their faith is and what it really means. Bell hits everybody with the deep (and, in my opinion, occasionally irrelevant) philosophical questions regardless of their maturity level and that could very easily send a young undiscipled Christian down an entirely wrong path. I think a mature Christian could get a lot out of Bell's approach but I would hope that new believers gain a firm foundation before they run into him.

[thepostman]

I like the videos and I like his approach....I was talking to a guy I work with about him and he told me he doesn't believe in a literal heaven or literal hell, but I have yet to look into that myself....

[Cider Jim]

My church, Rivermont Ave. Baptist, showed many of the DVDs during our Wednesday night Soul Cafe service where I tend bar (coffee bar). I've loved all of them, esp. the one with the blow horn preacher.

[El Scorcho]

My initial impression of Bell is that he has some very valid points but he teaches them in an indiscriminate, therefore irresponsible, manner. Well, I say teach but he doesn't really teach, he asks questions. If you're going to make someone question their faith and its tenets, you should be reasonably sure that they are aware of what their faith is and what it really means. Bell hits everybody with the deep (and, in my opinion, occasionally irrelevant) philosophical questions regardless of their maturity level and that could very easily send a young undiscipled Christian down an entirely wrong path. I think a mature Christian could get a lot out of Bell's approach but I would hope that new believers gain a firm foundation before they run into him.

I understand your point and where you're coming from with that. At one point in life, I think I may have agreed with it completely. However, at this stage of life I think that people are already questioning faith (whether it be ours or theirs) from the outset. I don't know if I completely side with Bell's approach, but I am in agreement with him in that I think that questions are good, and uncertainty is sometimes just the honest to God truth of some matters.

I was talking to a guy I work with about him and he told me he doesn't believe in a literal heaven or literal hell, but I have yet to look into that myself...

I've read what he had to say in the "Velvet Elvis" book, and that wasn't what I came away with. He may have discovered something I haven't, but based on what I've read, I wouldn't believe that to be the case.

...esp. the one with the blow horn preacher.

Yes. "Bull Horn Preacher" is one of my favorites as well. "The Way of The Master" folks tried to do a video response to that video, but it really just reinforced exactly that the Nooma video had said to begin with. I literally laughed out loud at them when they started out their response by making fun of the way Rob Bell dresses/looks. It was so flawed and ignorant throughout that I was just disgusted by the end.

[RagingTireFire]

I think that people are already questioning faith (whether it be ours or theirs) from the outset.

This is true. They question because they are looking for answers. That being said, I don't think that the best thing to do at the outset is give them more and harder questions. Solidify them in the basics first, then use the tough questions to help them grow through the Bible and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I agree with you that questions are good. Paul extolled the Bereans who questioned everything he told them. So long as you know where to get answers, questions are great.

As far as the non-literal heaven/hell thing, I have also heard that's Bell's position but I haven't heard him say that myself. This, however, is one of those irrelevant questions I was talking about before.

While I'm here, it really frosts me when one ministry takes public cheap "oh, those guys are so wrong"-type shots at another ministry. It diminishes my respect for whatever it is they have to say. In this case, that would apply both to the donks at Way of the Master and to Bell for his constant 'Brickianity' snipes.

[El Scorcho]

So, I'm almost done with a more thorough spin through Velvet Elvis and I'm about to start Bell's second book.

It's safe to say that while I think he's a genuinely nice guy who's trying really hard, we disagree about our approaches to theology and, in turn, Christianity. I've learned quite a bit more about the "emergent church" since I first posted this, and I'm definitely not in that camp. I'm not really looking to expound on that right now, but I remembered starting this thread and wanted to come back to make a note of it in case someone else comes across it.

[HenryGale]

I have the Velvet Elvis...I am about halfway through it. I have heard nothing but good things about Rob Bell and his ministry.

[El Scorcho]

I have the Velvet Elvis...I am about halfway through it. I have heard nothing but good things about Rob Bell and his ministry.

I had heard nothing but good things too, which is why I started this thread way back when I did. Since then, that has changed. Rob writes about his idea of flexible theology in Velvet Elvis, and since then has fully embraced that. For example...

http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/200 ... d-out.html

Again, I think Rob is a great guy and I think that he's reaching people in a way that no one has before. I just think that his "flexible theology" concept is an extremely dangerous one.

[BJWilliams]

Ive had PLs that used his Nooma videos for lessons. I must say I found the one that ended with the car getting t-boned was quite eye-opening

[El Scorcho]

I don't have a problem with the NOOMA series. They're great tools and very well done. I just have a problem with Bell's approach to theology.

[jimflamesfan]

The videos are well produced. That seems to be very rare for Christian material.

Our young adult Sunday School class used them, and about 12 out of the 15 seemed to get a good response. They worked well in Sunday School because they got people talking.

There were some that were just a little too out there, though....Trees and Breathe are two that come to mind that are just out there - they seem to ask more questions than give answers.

Even with the Bulhorn guy one...I agree with the premise...often we need to be able to relate to the person who we are witnessing to, instead of just shouting at them.

But the problem is, sometimes we never come around to telling them the truth. So in that sense, Bullhorn guy was a little too one-sided for me.

Overall the Nooma series was OK. I haven't read Velvit Elvis, but I have heard of problems with the Emerging Church movement, mainly regarding that it is not theologically sound.

[Sly Fox]

Count me in your final statement's camp, Scorcho. The video are thought provoking and a great tool when you in the proper context.

I've listened to some of us his podcasts and came away with the same concerns. But I admit I haven't read any of his books.

[TDDance234]

I've had a hard time forming an opinion of his ministry. His nooma stuff is very good, however, I had a professor that completely undressed him and a lot of his views and have yet to get over that. I'd like to find some time to do some more indepth study of his teachings and ministry because it seems like one that is def. thriving.

[TDDance234]

But the problem is, sometimes we never come around to telling them the truth. So in that sense, Bullhorn guy was a little too one-sided for me.

Overall the Nooma series was OK. I haven't read Velvit Elvis, but I have heard of problems with the Emerging Church movement, mainly regarding that it is not theologically sound.

Have to be careful here. There is a big difference between the Emerging church and the Emergent church.

[El Scorcho]

I've had a hard time forming an opinion of his ministry. His nooma stuff is very good, however, I had a professor that completely undressed him and a lot of his views and have yet to get over that. I'd like to find some time to do some more indepth study of his teachings and ministry because it seems like one that is def. thriving.

I have a video of a great message given by Mark Driscoll a few weeks back at SEBTS in Wake Forest, NC that you should see. PM me if you're interested.

[revmitchell]

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue104.pdf

This is a critque of "The Velvet Elvis"

[AZjonz]

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue104.pdf

This is a critque of "The Velvet Elvis"

Nice contribution to the discussion. I plan on reading this in full when I have time. I have questions about Rob Bell that I'll eventually get around to asking and answering.

[SuperJon]

I'm reading Velvet Elvis now. I'm three chapters in (about 100 pages) and there has been some good stuff and some stuff that I thought was dumb. Then again, one of the things he has said a couple times so far was that he wanted us to question what he was writing and discuss it and critique it and not just take it as gospel from the get go.

[Sly Fox]

On a side note, while Rob Bell was away this past Sunday he had Ed Dobson fill in for him.

I still enjoy his Noomas but generally steer clear of most of his doctrinal positions. I believe we have plenty to learn from how he is attracting young folks to a church in Grand Rapids of all places (before you Michiganders jump down my throat, I used to live in Muskegon once upon a time).

[TDDance234]

On a side note, while Rob Bell was away this past Sunday he had Ed Dobson fill in for him.

I still enjoy his Noomas but generally steer clear of most of his doctrinal positions. I believe we have plenty to learn from how he is attracting young folks to a church in Grand Rapids of all places (before you Michiganders jump down my throat, I used to live in Muskegon once upon a time).

What is he doing differently to be so effective among the 20-30 range?

[Sly Fox]

That is a terrific question that has many watching him very closely. Frankly they do a very simple service.

[rueful]

Sly, what do you think of Matt Chandler? Hes in Dallas, which I know isnt houston, but still, and he has a church of about 6 or 7,000 thats predominantly 20-30 age males, but hes a whole heck of alot more theologically sound. Not saying Bell isnt, but Chandler doesnt have the hate him love him mentality nearly as bad as Bell does.

[Th3rd]

my big problem with him and all the emergent guys is the fact that they dont seem to ever be concrete on something. they all say that i may be right or i may be wrong but who is to really know, that is just the beginning i am reading a good book right now called Why We're Not Emergent: By Two Guys Who Should Be by Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck. the back of the book reads as follows

You can be young, passionate about Jesus Christ, surrounded by diversity, engaged in a postmodern world, reared in evangelicalism and not be an emergent Christian. In fact, I want to argue that it would be better if you weren’t.”
The Emergent Church is a strong voice in today’s Christian community. And they’re talking about good things: caring for the poor, peace for all men, loving Jesus. They’re doing church a new way, not content to fit the mold. Again, all good. But there’s more to the movement than that. Much more.
Kevin and Ted are two guys who, demographically, should be all over this movement. But they’re not. And Why We’re Not Emergent gives you the solid reasons why. From both a theological and an on-the-street perspective, Kevin and Ted diagnose the emerging church. They pull apart interviews, articles, books, and blogs, helping you see for yourself what it’s all about.

and here is a site more about it

http://www.notemergent.com/

[Sly Fox]

A good chunk of the team I manage were in Dallas Monday for Catalyst led by Andy Stanley, Matt Chandler and Pete Briscoe. They came back energized and reassessing why we do things the way we do. I have followed Andy and Pete more and I had a relatively lengthy chat with the latter a couple of months ago at NRB. I like what I hear philosphically in regard to outreach.