[Cider Jim]

I was walking through the 2nd floor of DeMoss Hall today, and I noticed a guy on a ladder painting a stars-and-bars Confederate Flag on the wall outside of an office across from the LU Debate office. Apparently, we are starting a Civil War Chaplain's Museum, so that's the reason for the flag.

[Fumblerooskies]

Uh oh...

[Libertine]

I'll have to check it out. If it's there in the context of the Civil War accompanied by other Civil War stuff, that makes it historical and I wouldn't have a problem with it. If it's just up there on the wall, I'm guessing that a few people at MISO (among others) are going to want a conversation.

[Cider Jim]

I'm just hoping that the director of the museum got some kind of official university approval before he hired a painter.

[Fumblerooskies]

Oh CJ...
...you've been around long enough to know how it works...
Much easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission.

[Cider Jim]

Much easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission.

Been there & done that, Fumble: I read you loud & clear.

[Sly Fox]

I know LU prides itself in being Anti-PC. But in certain aspects I'd like to see our sensitivity be higher. This sounds like one of those instances.

Even under the pretext of that museum, I would have issues with just a Confederate Naval Battle Flag painted in a public hallway. If it were part of a logo with the Stars & Stripes and a cross it would make more sense.

I know you Virginians & Carolinians don't want to hear this once again, but that flag symbolizes slavery and racism to the vast majority of Americans.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

The office across from the debate lab is the National Civil War History Museum or something like that, im sure its not just up there for no reason, but idk.

[Libertine]

I know you Virginians & Carolinians don't want to hear this once again, but that flag symbolizes slavery and racism to the vast majority of Americans.

I'm not arguing that, Sly. But, if the flag is placed in some historical context, I don't see it as that kind of issue. You couldn't very well have a WWII museum without seeing a few swastikas here and there and I would think that a Civil War museum that pertains to chaplains on both sides would have to have some imagery of the flags they served under.

[Sly Fox]

I agree but that is not what was described at the beginning of this thread. And for the record I find the swastika and confederate naval battle flag equally offensive for different reasons.

[TallyW]

If it has to do with the Civil War I hate to tell everyone but there was a side that lost... and they bore that flag... We can't wipe it out of history... granted I too would be offended if it was designed to focus the attention on a particular flag but we can't do a mural of various people/scenes from that period and just delete that flag b/c some find it offensive. If it's there in context with everything else it's a non issue for me... if it's on the back of a pickup truck that has a gun rack and muddin' tires... I'm less comforted.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

what i love is how uneducated most people are, i have a huge british flag in my dorm, and so many people come in, see it, and are like "why the heck do you have a confederate flag"

[thepostman]

what i love is how uneducated most people are, i have a huge british flag in my dorm, and so many people come in, see it, and are like "why the heck do you have a confederate flag"

wow.....is this a common thing???

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

yeah, i have had at least 5 people this year ask me that. Two of them try and play the image of im from the south its part of my culture, when one is from Indiana, its rediculous

[thepostman]

wow...I knew there were some idiots at LU...but wow...

I think I have said this to you before...but the office is amazing

[ATrain]

I have absolutely no problem with that flag being painted...they also painted the Stars and Stripes on the other side. The Confederate flag at an angle displayed with the Union flag at an angle is a common symbol for something Civil War related. As for the issue of the Confederate flag itself, I have very strong convictions about it but will keep my mouth shut (or in this case, my keyboard locked) about it b/c I do not want to step on toes unnecessarily.

[PeterParker]

If done in context of a museum detailing the civil war and balanced exposure is given to both sides, it would seem to be less of an issue.


This mural idea dovetails with an idea I was discussing with some other LUers concerning the hospital white walls of DeMoss. The point was brought up that it would be interesting to see about bringing in one of those 3D muralists to recreate famous historical paintings (you know the ones you see in the library of Congress and other national museums) of significant events in American history and others that pertained to the theme of Liberty in place of the white walls. (Such as the subjects of the Frieze from the rotunda, see http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/rotunda/frieze/index.cfm )

For instance, they could include renderings with painted decorative "frames" around each scene as if it were a lifesize or large painting hanging in a museum such as the signing of the bill of rights, the continental congress, the declaration of independence, women's suffrage, the civil rights movement, et al. Perhaps, they could place them in a sort of timeline, so as you walked the halls you would see the idea of Liberty in its historical context. (It would be a lot better than the stark white walls in my opinion.)

Another option would be to incorporate murals pertaining to the major thinkers and the major areas of study (arts, letters and science) of western civilization, think painting of School of Athens, etc.






Reference:

Subject Paintings, et al:

1. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html Library of Congress Collection

2. http://www.humanitiesweb.org/human.php?s=g&p=g&a=i


Artists:

1. http://www.antoniasfineart.com/

2. http://www.ericgrohemurals.com/ and http://www.ericgrohemurals.com/projects.html

3. http://dmoz.org/Arts/Visual_Arts/Painti ... l_Artists/

4. http://www.humanitiesweb.org/human.php?s=g&p=g&a=i

5. http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/557396474ricQNK

[4everfsu]

Ok let me see if I can understand, some dont like the confederate flag (CSA) because of slavery. Ok I take they also don't like the USA flag, the stars and stripes for if I remember our history correctly it was the flag on the ships that brought the slaves to the US.
Also if I had been born in 1851 instead of 1951 and in the same society setting, I would have been classified as poor white, I mean poor white. So if some yankees invaded my states for whatever reason, good intentions included, I would have taken up arms againist them. I would like to think I would be of the same mindset then as now againist slavery, I cannot stand to see a dog chained up for life, so I know I cannot imagine a man being chained for life, regardless of color, etc. and liking it or supporting it.

[Sly Fox]

Given the context of the two flags together, I don't have any problem with it as I described in my first post in this thread.

I know I've beaten this dead horse about the Conferderacy plenty of times before and just as sure as the sun rises in the morning I'll chime in on any future discussions. Suffice it to say I believe you can honor your ancestors without using one of the ugly symbols as your banner.

[ATrain]

Well, personally I think the Confederate battle flag is a good design...but I know thats probably not what you're talking about.

My ancestors (who were not slaveowners), fought and died underneath that flag for protecting Virginia and their homes from invaders. It is unfortunate that groups such as the KKK and others have disgraced and misused that flag by using it for their extremely racist views and by flying it alongside the Nazi flag as well, but that does not change of what it truly represents.

[bigsmooth]

i agree with you atrain, but this is a delicate issue. the confederate flag is a part of history, and for that i have no problem with it be painted on a wall to show the historical perspective. however, i have never seen a confederate pride group come out an ask these hate groups to stop using that flag to enhance their agendas. if an effort like this was made it may be more easy to stomach for some people. you are also talking about your ancestors who you never met, so do you really know how they feel? in now way am i disgracing your ancestors, but bringing up a valid question.

[PAmedic]

Uh oh...

you said it

at least its outside the DEBATE office

[kel varson]

Uh oh...

you said it

at least its outside the DEBATE office

Good point Medic--about the DEBATE office. Kind of ironic. I really didn't see what the big deal was for many years with regard to the confederate flag. I am more sympathetic now. I guess, like someone said, it depends on what it means to you personally. I know for many black people it brings back ugly memories, to say the least. I can certainly understand their point.

With the flag in context of a museum, it seems like it will be okay.

[ATrain]

In response to your post smoothie, to the first point that is why I have never joined a confederate pride group like the Sons of Confederate Veterans (why join something that won't help itself).

To the second point about my ancestors, while I have never talked to them, there are a few letters that were kept, a couple from the battlefield, a couple to other people after death, that refer to "defending Virginia" and "invaders," (none regarding slavery or people of other races), so based on that I have a pretty good idea of how they felt. I have seen them with my own eyes, however I do not have access to them right now being at school.

[Ed Dantes]

I understand that having a confederate flag painted could be justified for historical and educational reasons, but c'mon, this is Liberty. Chances are, one of the guys heading up this new area is going to be Kenny Rowlette, an old English professor of mine (who wound up being removed from the class of mine he taught due to gross incompetence), a guy who basically refers to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression".

(Darn those aggressive Yankees and their William Wilberforce-esque piety, not wanting to enslave a race of humans!)