[givemethemic]

I have a gift for you Medic when you come down for the home opener!!!!!

[PAmedic]

I'm all a-twitter. is it in my color?

[SuperJon]

Just two things to point out and I'll shut up. One of them actually ticked me off quite a bit.

let me ask you this SJ, i know you are wanting to get into real estate apprasils. are you gonna dress with holes in your jeans and have an unclean look when you appraise a house?i think your father is in the same profession? im sure he does not dress like that!

I wear khaki shorts, a polo or button up shirt, and sandals or tennis shoes. If I wear sandals to the door to introduce myself, I always change into tennis shoes before I do the inspection. That's the type of dress code I would love. Just add shorts and we'll be fine. I can handle wearing a polo or whatever, just please, as someone who lives in shorts 85% of the year, let me wear shorts to class. My dad wears khaki shorts and polos as well to jobs. I'm also not wanting to get into it, I'm already in it (just pointing that out, that wasn't the part that ticked me off). I did it for 6 months in South Carolina and have helped with a few in NC this summer. One of the companies just changed their rules to something stupid so we're working on getting work in VA starting as soon as possible.

(who most do NOT pay a lick for their education SJ... MOMMY AND DADDY DO)

(This is the part that ticked me off) One of my good friends is already $60,000 in debt and is only a junior because his parents don't pay jack and he's aviation. Another friend of mine might not be able to come back to LU this year because a scholarship fell through and his parents don't pay anything. Most of the people I know pay for their entire education themselves. That's what student loans are for. I don't pay for my school directly but I do pay for it indirectly. I work for the family business. I get paid 40% of the total price of any job that I do. Of that 40% I pay my own rent. The other 60% goes towards paying my tuition. Whatever's left over after tuition goes back to the company. A good majority of the student body is paying for their own school. Almost everyone that I know is. That's a whole new debate on why parents won't help their kids through college which I won't get into. I'm not saying my parents don't help me because last semester they helped me a ton and still do. I'm extremely thankful for that. I'm one of the lucky ones though. Most of the people that I know aren't, and that's unfortunate.

[STUDENT]

I'm all for a good argument, but you guys also have to see where current students are coming from on this board. It's too easy for all of the alumni to stop a good discussion by pulling out the experience card and it really makes the younger guys feel like you don't respect our opinion because we have less experience and are younger.

Your problem with the hair code is its enforcement. That's a legit gripe... but we don't throw out policy simply on enforcement, we find ways to enforce more fairly.

What I'm saying is that no matter what the hair code is, there is no way to enforce it fairly. Unless you can enlighten me on a way that I am not thinking of.

Well, I thought I did... but once again I don't know that you read my post. It's hard to hold a conversation when half of the participants don't respond to what was being said.

It goes both ways. I think that either you didn't read all of my posts or you didn't comprehend them the way they were meant to be (which happens a lot on message boards probably).

Well, that about says it. You might as well quit school now. It goes to show how open you are to actually learning how to handle yourself in the real world. Knowledge of a topic goes a lot further than a blind personal experience. There is a difference between 10 years of experience in a field and 10 years doing the same thing as a first-year guy. Attaining wisdom from ugly things like 'research' and 'proof' allow a person to move past their initial "experience". You should really warm up to facts and data. It will help you in life.

I would appreciate it if you older guys would quit assuming that some of us are "not going to make it in the real world" because of something we say off the top of our heads on a message board because you don't know anything about us. Sometimes personal experience is better than scientific theories and "science" cannot always be trusted. We are at Liberty University ya know and we don't exactly listen to the most popular views of science when it comes to things like religion. Yes, that may be a completely different topic, but the fact of the matter is, just because many people hold to a scientific belief, ie-students learning better when they are dressed up, doesn't mean it's necessarily true and it doesn't mean that I have to believe that it's true. Don't assume that I'm going to do bad in school or that I won't learn just because I disagree with the notion that EVERYONE will do better in the classroom when dressed up. Many may do better, many may not, can we just agree to disagree on that point.

I guess next time you want to point out that you may know more because you are older and more experienced, I would appreciate it (and I'm sure other younger posters would also) if you explained why that benefits you in the given situation (explain what you learned from your experience). If you want us to learn from your experience I'm open to it, just teach the younger people something instead of just saying "I've went through it so I know better". Also, maybe you do do that on this board, but I've only looked on here a few times so I wouldn't know.

[Sly Fox]

None of us old hags are discounting the opinions of current students. Hey, we were students once ourselves and believe it or not we can comprehend your mindset.

Forgive my ignorance, but why is fairly enforcing the hair code all that difficult. Franklly, its one of the rules I find less & less necessary. But I don't see why RAs handing out reps to students who are not in the guidelines is all that difficult. Just ask our friends up 501 in Lexington.

And none of us are saying current students won't make it in the real world. In fact, we're rooting for you. But we are saying the discipline involved in some of these rules helps prepare you to succeed. Its not a prerequisite to success but it is a facilitator.

And I suggest you look back at the volume of posts you will find some of the people you view as antagonistic in this thread are actually sympathetic to your daily grind. Most of us weren't perfrectly in line with the Liberty Way when we were in school. In fact, quite the opposite for some in this thread. That's why we come on here and try to express our feelings so that some of you younger guys won't have to learn the hard way like we did.

BTW come on and bite the bullet and register. I think you'll find this place rather enjoyable if you get it a chance.

[SuperJon]

It's been mentioned on here before but I'll bring it up again. If, uh, metrosexuals like gmtm wear their collar popped, are they in violation of the hair code? Their hair is on their collar so, by rule, they would be in violation, right?

[ALUmnus]

Just a random note, did anyone catch the Nathan's world championship hotdog eating contest last weekend? One of the contestants went up onstage holding up a big sign with the Whalers logo on it.

[SuperJon]

I saw that, and laughed.

[TallyW]

Student-
- You enforce the hair code by using the collar and ears as measuring sticks. The thing with the code is that usually you're given a head's up. I know very few who were cited the first time by an RA or RD. They are around you every day. When it's getting out of control, I've almost always seen them say "Hey, shape it up by Wednesday or I have to give you reps. This isn't hard.

- No one is telling you not to discuss or debate because others have more experience. My reference to experience had NOTHING to do with that. I honestly and sincerely want you to take a logic class next semester. If you read your posts back and forth with me, you've taken nearly everything out of context and threw out red herring arguments. My reference to experience is that experience is NOTHING without growing and you aren't going to be able to grow if you simply ignore research, data, proof, etc. You'll end up being a guy who constantly has to fail because you won't listen to anyone else. That's my point with experience... it only helps if it's combined with the willingness to learn from others. When you say "throw out the facts, I'm going on my own subjective experiences", you're limiting yourself.

SJ-
I'd hope that "popping" the collar was against the dress code... it just looks bad on most people. You have to have skillz to pull it off. My decree: "If a person can pull off the popped collar, I say they are off limits. Poppin ain't easy!"

[givemethemic]

O we are all about poppin the colla, and it is not against the dress code

[SuperJon]

But is it against the hair code?

[LUconn]

It's against the homosexuality code.

[STUDENT]

I'm not even going to go into what I've dealt with as far as the hair code goes, but trust me, my RA was out of control when it came to that (and if you had to deal with all of his petty crap, you would be a bit frustrated with it also). While we are talking about metrosexuals and all that, I think the dress and hair codes encourage it. People who gell their hair will never have a problem with the hair code and the worst thing that happens to people who pop their collars is that they are told to put them down (which rarely even happens).

[belcherboy]

I'm not even going to go into what I've dealt with as far as the hair code goes, but trust me, my RA was out of control when it came to that (and if you had to deal with all of his petty crap, you would be a bit frustrated with it also). While we are talking about metrosexuals and all that, I think the dress and hair codes encourage it. People who gell their hair will never have a problem with the hair code and the worst thing that happens to people who pop their collars is that they are told to put them down (which rarely even happens).

I can certainly understand your frustration with an overbearing RA. I had one my freshman year that nearly kicked my roomate out of school because he didn't like him. He went as far as to write him up for a Celine Dion CD (which should have gotten him written up for suspicious homo behavior). Every opportunity he had, he would stick it to my roomate, who was more than willing to try and stick it back. This RA nearly got beat up several times for pulling his "high and mighty" crap with football players. He was a tall skinny guy who would brag that he knew Karate.

I think the biggest problems most college kids have with the rules at Liberty is the fact that they are being policed by kids their age or slightly older. I've had very good RA's, but the few power hungry ones seem to ruin it for everyone. The partner of the tyrant RA I spoke of above would many times write people up and than never turn the write up in. He was a genuinly cool guy who kept order and control on the hall without throwing his weight around. I think he told me that he might have turned in a half dozen write ups all year. He said he only turned those in because they had either been warned quite a few times or acted like a jerk to him. He probably saved the tyrant RA a world of trouble by smoothing over dumb situations of which were created by the tyrant RA.

If you were a student from 1993-1995, you might remember him. PM me and I'll give you his name if you are curious. Everyone seemed to have had some sort of run in with him.

[ATrain]

Student...you didn't happen to live on E5 did you? Those RAs definitely count as overbearing and petty (which is part of the reason why I jumped across the street to rival E6-definitely the best move I could've made spiritually and socially).

[Purple Haize]

O we are all about poppin the colla, and it is not against the dress code

I don't know this "poppin collar" thing?? Is it anything like some people did in the 80's (the greatest decade EVER) where they wore to "Izod" shirts, usually pastel, and had the collars up? WOW that was hideous, not sure what "those" people were thinking!!!
As for dress code, as a former employee and theoretical enforcer of the dress code, I hated it!! When students (male) had to wear ties, it was always funny to see them try to compete to see how sloppy they could look while still being in dress code perameters. When they switched to "business casual" then any type of enforcement went out the window. Since it was a nightmare to enforce, I had just 3 or 4 criteria to "admit" a student into my class - 1) They had to be clothed 2) Shirt tucked in 3) Shoes 4)Belt. And to be honest, I never really enforced the dress code vis a vis what the females wore. There were those in our department that felt like it was opening a can of worms, and a legal mine field, to address the situation. As for the hair, I am convinced that hair codes were put into place by old men who had lost theirs!! (SCAR etc.) But if you go to LU then you know the rules and should follow them. There are a TON of great Christian colleges around the country whose rules are not as "strict" as LU's and are probably closer!!
Just my "Confessions of a dress code enforcer slacker"

[Sly Fox]

Yes, the popped collar is a retro look first popularized in the Early '60s that made a return with the preppy craze of the Early '80s. I guess this means skinny ties and pastels are just around the corner.

[TIMSCAR20]

O we are all about poppin the colla, and it is not against the dress code

I As for the hair, I am convinced that hair codes were put into place by old men who had lost theirs!! (SCAR etc.) But if you go to LU then you know the rules and should follow them. "

I shave my head. I may have lost my youthful athletic ability but I can say that the hair is in tact I could grow an afro if I really wanted but way too much maintenance. Besides, I like the "Hawk from Spencer for Hire" look. You old hags remember that show. I may just have to grow that goatee again.

[Sly Fox]

And you would need the shades on no matter what time of night.

[qkslvrsrfrboy]

skinny ties and pastels already are back, maybe not on the east coast yet. but poppin the collar has been back for at least 10 years?

[SuperJon]

A girl on Myspace said this today. Being a dude, I've never looked at it from this angle:

haha That's great......having experienced both levels of dress code (drastically more strict at PCC then transfer to LU just before the jeans and flip flop OK) I can actually say that the more relaxed dress code helped my grades..

this may apply more to the girls, but, at least for me, wearing dressier clothes requires more time in all aspects of getting ready- from ironing to nicer hair and makeup, not to mention giving yourself longer to walk to class if you're someone who refuses to wear running shoes with your dress pants/skirt

....so conservatively this means getting up an hour earlier (at least) to make it to class dressed and on time......

After coming to Liberty and especially after the dress code change i found that extra hour in the morning I had after throwing on jeans, sweater, and flip flops was an excellent time for studying or last minute cramming

not to mention just being all around more comfortable throughout the day........

I still dressed up some days just because I like to dress nice......the new dress code isn't PREVENTING anyone from dressing up

So if the dress code Bothers you WHERE A SUIT and let everyone else just be comfortable!

[Sly Fox]

The fact that she even went to Pensacola in the first place shows her total lack of judgement.

[cheerbren]

I just had to read all this to see how there can be 7 pages on the dress code. Wow! I am impressed!

[Sly Fox]

We're just warming up.

And the amazing thing is that the vast majority of those commenting are guys. That's probably the most surprising aspect of all of this talk.

[Old School D]

So my question is, are there really going to be rule changes soon? I've been growing my hair out and trying to figure out ways to hide it.