[alabama24]

It seems you have a problem with Mormons as people and they are intelligible to hold public office.

Neither Tally nor I have ever said Mormons were bad people. And yes, I think some people are intelligible for public office. Namely those who make sense.

[Purple Haize]

It seems you have a problem with Mormons as people and they are intelligible to hold public office.

Neither Tally nor I have ever said Mormons were bad people. And yes, I think some people are intelligible for public office. Namely those who make sense.

You may be on to something there!
Actually that comment was not directed at you. And yes, Tally most certainly besmirched the names of those who are Mormon. You have been quite clear in your disapproval of Romney but you also have been quite clear in your feelings on him speaking in the position that he is in. That whole disagreeing without being disagreeable thing.

[Hold My Own]

If I was a non-Christian viewing this board to be frank its discussions like this and the way some of you have been acting (especially you NAJ and Tally) that would make me think "if this is what Christians are like to each other, I want no part of it". That would drive more people away from Christianity and toward something like Mormonism than a speech that a very high percentage of people outside of Lynchburg probably wont watch.

Beej, gotta take a deep breath every now and then. What Tally is displaying is perfectly healthy conversation and in my opinion is necessary. As a Christian the thing I hate the most when speaking to non-believers is when they are so closed minded that they cannot even consider another way of thinking...and then they walk out. If we're unable to have healthy conversations about opposing views among fellow Christians, what hope do we have for the outside world?

PS I would not consider all of the comments "healthy" but what Tally has been displaying is refreshing and should be encouraged not discouraged.

[SuperJon]

Here's where the atheist/Jew/whatever vs Mormonism debate falls apart:

Someone of another religion, or of no religion, believes something completely, 100% different that Christians. Their message is completely, 100% different than the Gospel.

Mormons take the Gospel and distort it in ways that make their version of religion the same as Christianity. To boil it down even further, they teach a false Gospel. They make you think you're giving your life to the same God and same Jesus as us, but in reality, you're not. That's why having a Mormon speak is much, much worse than an atheist, a moralist, an agnostic, or a Jew.

To put it in food terms: if the Gospel were a cheeseburger, people of other religions are saying cheeseburgers suck and chicken is better. Mormons are making tofu burgers and smothering them in cheese and toppings and trying to make people think they're real burgers.

[alabama24]

If we're unable to have healthy conversations about opposing views among fellow Christians, what hope do we have for the outside world?

[SuperJon]

If we're unable to have healthy conversations about opposing views among fellow Christians, what hope do we have for the outside world?

That's why I love being part of an EFCA church.

[alabama24]

SuperJon - I am a little confused with your analogy. Where does Chick-Fil-A fit it?

[alabama24]

If we're unable to have healthy conversations about opposing views among fellow Christians, what hope do we have for the outside world?

That's why I love being part of an EFCA church.

I served in an EFCA church for four years and loved it. I would eagerly like to be in one again some day.

[SuperJon]

SuperJon - I am a little confused with your analogy. Where does Chick-Fil-A fit it?

Let me rephrase:


If the Gospel were Chick Fil A, other religions would say that they like McDonalds better and Chick Fil A sucks.

Mormonism, on the other hand, would claim to be Zaxby's and be the same thing with just a few things added.

[Hold My Own]

If we're unable to have healthy conversations about opposing views among fellow Christians, what hope do we have for the outside world?

One of my favorite quotes from Doc was when people would question how he could be friends with a Calvinist or other "edgy" type beliefs and he'd simply respond "As long as they believe Jesus Christ died for their sins then we can discuss the rest of the details in Heaven."

This quote doesnt really apply with our discussion but just in general with typical topics that cause strong opinions

Mormonism, on the other hand, would claim to be Zaxby's and be the same thing with just a few things added.

But open on Sunday's

[alabama24]

Next time I am in Knoxville, lets go to Chick-Fil-A AND Zaxby's. Just not on a home game Saturday. I can't take all the Orange.

[SuperJon]

Next time I am in Knoxville, lets go to Chick-Fil-A AND Zaxby's. Just not on a home game Saturday. I can't take all the Orange.

Luckily I live on the complete opposite end of town and don't have to deal with game days. That color is hideous.

[Equinox]

I guess this subject is upsetting to everyone

[Purple Haize]

SuperJon - I am a little confused with your analogy. Where does Chick-Fil-A fit it?

Let me rephrase:


If the Gospel were Chick Fil A, other religions would say that they like McDonalds better and Chick Fil A sucks.

Mormonism, on the other hand, would claim to be Zaxby's and be the same thing with just a few things added.

If Zaxbys is Mormon, I'm converting! I'll leave the legalistic, closed on Sundays dogma of Chick-FIL-A and into the welcoming arms of the Texas toast, special sauce basin of the Zaxby's lovin Mormons!

Glad to see more then 1 EFCA'rs in the house!

And UT Orange always remind me of those nasty Circus Peanuts candy

[Purple Haize]

Here's where the atheist/Jew/whatever vs Mormonism debate falls apart:

Someone of another religion, or of no religion, believes something completely, 100% different that Christians. Their message is completely, 100% different than the Gospel.

Mormons take the Gospel and distort it in ways that make their version of religion the same as Christianity. To boil it down even further, they teach a false Gospel. They make you think you're giving your life to the same God and same Jesus as us, but in reality, you're not. That's why having a Mormon speak is much, much worse than an atheist, a moralist, an agnostic, or a Jew.
.

I'm going to have to disagree. What is the difference between ignoring a sizeable chunk of Christianity (Judaism and the New Testament) and adding to it? What's the difference between thinking there is no God and thinking there are many gods?
Thisis where HMO's allusion to Doc's quote comes in. What I would add would be, if they aren't going to Heaven, then it will be sorta hard to figur the 'details' out. So why are we treating Mormons with more disdain then other ' non believers'?

[logic]

Haize, I actually nominated you for "post of the year" earlier, perhaps I was still on ignore back then.


Tally - lets go back to the basics -


1. Romney has a chance to become the next President of this country..
2. Considering the point of the commencement address is NOT to deliver a spiritual message..
3. Why not use this speech as a platform to gain nationwide recognition for this university?


How much is Romney worth? 300 Million? Our students are fools if they think they won't/cannot learn anything from him. How arrogant they are!

[jcmanson]

why are we treating Mormons with more disdain then other ' non believers'?

This is what I've been trying to get at. A non-believer is a non-believer.

[Purple Haize]

@Manson - I agree that is what it boils down to as well. The question then becomes are we OK with having unbelievers speak at Commencement. I vote yes, but can understand why some vote NO.

@logic - since you buttered me up by nominating me for Post of the Year, I have taken you off of foe. Don't abuse the priviledge!

[TH Spangler]

Haize, I actually nominated you for "post of the year" earlier, perhaps I was still on ignore back then.
1. Romney has a chance to become the next President of this country..
2. Considering the point of the commencement address is NOT to deliver a spiritual message..
3. Why not use this speech as a platform to gain nationwide recognition for this university?
How much is Romney worth? 300 Million? Our students are fools if they think they won't/cannot learn anything from him. How arrogant they are!

Excellent points by everyone ...... I think Liberty U is confident enough in what she believes and teaches and in the students, to host a Presidential candidate that we disagrees with on religion. I'm not sure BYU can say the same. http://yfacts.byu.edu/viewarticle.aspx?id=192

Just about every University in America would jump at the chance to have a GOP nominee as their speaker six months before an election.

Selecting LU is also a pretty bold, risky, but very necessarily gamble by Mitt. If he can not get Christians to look past his "minority" religion he can not win.

The anti-constitution crowd will stir this as much as possibly.

[SuperJon]

why are we treating Mormons with more disdain then other ' non believers'?

This is what I've been trying to get at. A non-believer is a non-believer.

Because a nonbeliever is generally apathetic. A mormon is actively pursuing teaching people something other than the Gospel.

[Purple Haize]

why are we treating Mormons with more disdain then other ' non believers'?

This is what I've been trying to get at. A non-believer is a non-believer.

Because a nonbeliever is generally apathetic. A mormon is actively pursuing teaching people something other than the Gospel.

But at the end of the day what is the difference? Plus, apathy can just as easily push people as activism.

[TallyW]

Purple and JCMason

So why are we treating Mormons with more disdain then other ' non believers'?

This is what I've been trying to get at. A non-believer is a non-believer.

Its not that you haven't heard the argument. You simply do not want to agree with the argument.

SJ, in his fabulous exposition of both chicken and theology, already articulated why this group is especially troubling. Their ENTIRE facade relies on deception. They come close enough to sound like a friend but then when you understand what THEY mean when they use Christian verbiage it is something far different. It's not only that they don't know Christ... it's far more sinister... they (as a cult) are highly deceptive.

LIBERTY ONLY FOSTERS THEIR ABILITY TO DECEIVE BY COZING UP TO ROMNEY. The LDS church will have one more example of how their friends, the evangelicals aren't put off.

A second reason there is a problem:
THEY (Romney included) ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST OUR INTERESTS as a Christian university. We are trying to train champions for Christ and Romney is funding champions for Moroni.

This isn't a group of people who simply don't know Jesus. It's a group of people who are actively working to pursued the world AGAINST honoring Jesus Christ as Lord and knowing Him as Savior.

To compare it to atheism... This is more like inviting a militant atheist to give our commencement than simply an unbeliever. They are not the same.

Some of you would apparently argue that a Geo Metro and Aston Martin are the same... after all, they're both cars.

[jcmanson]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. All non-believers, in their own way, are attacking Christ.

"He that is not with Me, is against Me"

[Purple Haize]

Bite your tongue! James Bond would NEVER be caught in a Geo Metro!

You too have heard the arguments and you too simply do not want to agree with it.

Your arguments about Mormonism could apply to all religions. I go back to my comments about just claiming to be Christian does not mean you are a Christian. They are free to claim they are the same, and they honestly believe it. Obviously we see Mormons differently. I see them as earnest moral people who truly believe they ARE just another denomination. You apparently see them as evil manipulators, who know they are NOT another denomination but for some unknow nefarious reason are trying to usurp Evangelicals.
And again, still looking for examples of Mitts dastardly deeds in knowingly thwarting Christianity. Could it be donating his inheritance? Serving as a missionary? Running a program to help unwed pregnant women? Giving vast amounts of money to charity? Sure, they are all Mormon affiliated but that makes them neither evil nor immoral.

[Humble_Opinion]

THEY (Romney included) ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST OUR INTERESTS as a Christian university.

So is it your opinion that anyone who actively works against our interests, does not deserve our time or attention? I mean there are a lot of people out there that have actively worked against the "interests" of Christians and they later turned away from their evil ways. C.S. Lewis, Josh McDowell, etc. Many of the best apologists for our faith, started out as the greatest detractors. I can't think of any better example than Saul who then coverted and his name was changed to Paul.