- September 30th, 2012, 11:16 pm
#405857
BJ sent me a PM about this thread. This interview reveals what Johnnie actually said about getting even:
Moody Radio Transcription – Sept. 2012
Fabry: What was the purpose of having Donald Trump there and how did this all come about?
Chancellor: Convocation here is not a chapel service. Liberty is a very conservative Christian school, committed to the fundamentals of the faith, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, substitutionary death on the cross; all the fundamentals of the faith are never compromised here. All of our faculty are committed Christians and sign our doctrinal statement of faith. But convocation has always served a different purpose, it’s not a church service it’s not a chapel service. The purpose has been to expose students to leaders from all walks of life, because Liberty’s mission is not to be a bible school, but rather to be for evangelical Christians what Notre Dame is Catholics, a world class university to train students to go out in every walk of life and be champions for Christ in whatever profession they choose. We have had diverse speakers from Ted Kennedy to Jesse Jackson back in dad’s day, and more recently just a wide range of speakers from every profession. So it’s not unusual for us to have speakers who do not share our doctrinal tenets and are not really people you would expect to be a faculty member at Liberty, but someone who is successful in their field. And in this case, somebody who has been a strong advocate of the free enterprise that is another one of Liberty’s focuses is to instill in students the desire to return American back to its founding principles. Individual liberty, free enterprise, and all the things that America is all about, we support. So that is the reason for having Donald Trump. It was actually Johnnie Moore’s idea to have Donald Trump.
Fabry: Ok. Let me ask Johnnie Moore. Is it true that he didn’t accept any payment or you didn’t give any payment?
Johnnie Moore: Yeah. You know he was a big fan of Liberty University before we got to him and so when he receive the invitation it didn’t take long for him to vet it. And I think that is one of the amazing things about our Chancellor and, before him, our founder is that we’ve always had this philosophy that if it is Christian, it ought to be better. And it’s interesting that our testimony of excellence had made it all the way up to his corner office in New York City, so when the invitation came he didn’t think for five minutes he said “yeah, how quick can I get down there?”
Fabry: The one quote that people have taken, the one thing that they have honed in on was the quote about getting even. To sum it up, he was prefacing what he had to say, that he didn’t need to say this here, talking about a prenuptial agreement because “all of you folks are going to stay married, right?” And everyone clapped. But the other thing was, “don’t let people push around, you need to get even.” People said from a Christian perspective Jesus said turn the other cheek and love others. And that is the one thing was coming up. Chancellor why don’t you talk about that. How did you respond when he said get even?
Chancellor: He almost said it in jest, but he is a tough competitive business man, And you know, Jesus gave us the parable of the talents, where he condemned the servant who didn’t invest and take a chance in the marketplace. You know I’ve always taken that as whatever profession you’ve entered to go out and give it your all. Be the best you can be. Sometimes I think that means being tough. You know Jesus ran the money changes out of the temple with a whip, I always tell people that Jesus wasn’t a wimp. He died on the cross. What kind of person does it take to give up his life for others? It depends on how to take it, but I took it to mean go out and be the best you can you can be in whatever profession you enter, be tough, be competitive, be as wise as a serpent, but as innocent as a dove. That is what we always teach our students and that sometimes means being competitive, especially if that means going into the business world. He may not have said it as elegantly as what Mitt Romney claimed recently about something he said. But I think the basic idea is not so far out of sync with what we teach our students otherwise.
Fabry: Johnnie Moore you’ve had to answer that question with a lot of media outlets, haven’t you?
Johnnie Moore: Yeah, I have.
Fabry: And what have you answered.
Johnnie Moore: You know, I think that particularly young people who have grown up in cultural Christianity in the United States have this sanitized view of Jesus. And they have this image of Jesus you know walking in the lilies, being kind all the time and being gently. And we see that characteristic, but we also see the characteristic of Jesus being tough in Scripture. The Pharisees made fun of him for a long time and then you have this moment where He is in a crowd of people and he kind of gets back at them. And what does he say? He says; “don’t listen to these sons of Satan.” You know, that wasn’t a nice, polite little thing to say. And I think what you see in the story of Jesus living on planet earth is that he was meek, but he wasn’t weak. You know, he was strong, but He was patient with that strength. You know, one of things that I have said is that Jesus did get even. When it is all said and done, that is the whole story of the Bible. You know, when you close the last book, He wins, and all the injustice in the world is made right. And you know the Jesus of Culture is not necessarily the Jesus of the bible, he was a carpenter and he had a little dirt under his finger nails.
Fabry: And I don’t disagree with that, and I don’t want to stick you with this point, but the thing that I come back to is when you have something against someone, you go and work it out. And I understand that he lives in the business world and it’s not the world I live in or the nice little Christian community we live in, but if I have a problem with my neighbor and I listen to what Donald Trump had to say theological, to get even, then I am going to do something to get even, and I don’t think that fits with the golden rule, it you interpret that in that vein.
Chancellor: Yeah, and I don’t think he meant it that way. Like I said, I think he meant it as do the best you can and work hard. My father always said never ever quit and he also said, he got this from Winston Churchill that “success is sometimes moving from one failure to the next with undiminished enthusiasm.” And that is certainly the way I took what he said. But like you said, he lives in a different world and I think that overall his speech was very well accepted and very well received. He received a standing ovation from the students. You know I have never seen the students receive anyone as well as they received Donald Trump.
Fabry: You know there was a sort of winsome feel and off the cuff feel to this. I took some notes. His main thing was about success … Here is the point that I wanted to bring up with both of you. The main problem that I had when watching him, is that if I had college age kids right now and they were sitting there in that arena looking at this guy, I would take it that here is success. He is a man who is successful, and I don’t know … if we want to send the message that the more you get or make the more successful you are, because in the kingdom world sometimes that is opposite and sometimes that is backwards. So Chancellor, go ahead. How do you react to that?
Chancellor: Well, I will go back to the parable of the talents. Jesus talked about the servant who took the risk and invested his talents wisely; who reaped the reward and profits-- that is capitalism to me. And I tell students all the time who ask why we focus on people who have made a lot of money, “isn’t that somehow sinful” and I remind them that the reason that America has been able to do more for people in need around the world and do more to send missionaries out probably than any other country in history is because of capitalism, and because of rich people who were able to donate. And you can’t do ministry without support. And this university wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for rich people —mainly people giving small amounts — but there were some major gifts that were between this university surviving and succeeding or not continuing at certain points in our history. And if it were not for those people who were capitalistic and extremely ambitious, and driven people who made money and used that money to do good work and help others — and that is without talking about the people that they hire in their business and help that way — I am just talking about charitable giving. I think God uses that in ways that he can’t use underachievers. I just think that is why America has been as successful as it has been, that is the reason we have been able to propagate the gospel more than any other people in history, and I don’t think success is a sin. I think Jesus taught personal charity, we are supposed to help the poor, but he never said vote for someone who is going to tax your neighbor and give that money to the poor. He said you help the poor. So that is what we teach at Liberty. That is what I believe and I hope that students learn that while they are here.
Fabry: Johnnie Moore, is there any downside to asking Donald Trump there? Were there any dangers or warning flags?
Johnnie Moore: I don’t think so when it is all said and done. You have to be careful not to take this convocation out of context. These thousands of students who were listening to him were thousands of students, who take two theology courses, Old and New Testament courses, two worldview courses, they take an introduction to philosophy course. And they are going into the real world that is what they are doing. And in Higher Education we talk about levels of learning right? And the highest level of learning is synthesis, the ability to take what you have learned in a particular field and apply it in a different context. And I think that one of the best things that have happened out of convocation this week after Mr. Trump’s visit to campus is that it started very profitable conversation among students as they are trying to figure out how to incorporate their orthodox Christian beliefs in the real world they are going to walk into. There are people that find that popular and those who don’t, but when it is all said and done I can’t think of a better or safer place for these types of questions to be asked and answered than Liberty University.
Chancellor: And we try to be different than the state universities that are so politically correct and they censor conservative thoughts and Christian ideas, and they only want their students to hear one side of everything. At Liberty, we like to think that we have a free exchange of ideas that they are going to hear from people that don’t necessarily represent exactly what they should be when they leave or what they should become. It is their job to eat the fish and spit out the bones and to discern what is good advice and what is not. And if you don’t learn that in college, when do you learn it?
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