[From the class of 09]

I'm not saying that all good quarterbacks have bad offensive lines or that an offensive line doesn't help. Manning and Brady certainly have great O-lines and it has definitely helped their success. However, even if they didn't have good offensive lines, they would still be really good quarterbacks. That's what I'm saying. Even just an above average quarterback like Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers does well without a good o-line. My argument is that Tebow is terrible because he's Tebow. I have a no excuse policy when it comes to the NFL. When you're only allotted so many positions and there is a shortage of great NFL players, you can't blame your success on the talent or lack thereof around you. Good NFL players make their own success. If Tebow is going to be good, he will do it because he did it. If he's bad, it's because he did it. A good quarterback adapts to situations, a bad one doesn't.

Some would say being 2-1 is adapting.

[Schfourteenteen]

Why does a team's record become a measuring stick for how good a QB is? Tim Tebow didn't recover the onside kick against the Dolphins. The Giants beating the Pats doesn't make Eli a great QB. He had an average game, and they still won.

A good QB reads defenses, makes good decisions, and makes better throws. A QB's ability should be based on HIS productivity in HIS role, not the outcome of a game decided by 22 players.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Why do you want to sign players, to get you good stats or to get you wins? At the end of the day, you want the wins.

[Schfourteenteen]

Why do you want to sign players, to get you good stats or to get you wins? At the end of the day, you want the wins.

Yep. Teams were so impressed by Trent Dilfer's ability to win that after his Super Bowl victory he signed with Seattle to be a backup.

History is littered with great players on losing teams and below average players on winning teams. Apparently people forget that one man cant win a football game, and as such a win cannot be a determining factor in how good a player is.

[RubberMallet]

Why do you want to sign players, to get you good stats or to get you wins? At the end of the day, you want the wins.

when people say completely asinine things like this it cracks me up.

i remember when craig krenzel won his first few starts in chicago. "he's just a winner!!" lol.

[adam42381]

If it is just about wins/losses then Tebow is a much better QB than Cam Newton. If you believe that, you're an idiot.

[From the class of 09]

3-1 winning ugly still counts right?

[jbock13]

As a Redskins fan, give me a quarterback who sucks that can actually win.

[Schfourteenteen]

Denver is winning in spite of Tebow, not because of him. Get a clue.

[From the class of 09]

Maybe so. Im certainly not going to sit here and say he's the reason they've won 3 out of their last 4. But I have to say something is working with the change when you go from 1-4 to 4-5 when he became your starter.

+1

[jbock13]

.

[Schfourteenteen]

Maybe so. Im certainly not going to sit here and say he's the reason they've won 3 out of their last 4. But I have to say something is working with the change when you go from 1-4 to 4-5 when he became your starter.

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

[RubberMallet]

their defense is playing alot better, however, their wins have come against turds. oakland was winning despite its bad defense early on because of campbell and mcfadden.

[jbock13]

Yeah let's pretend Jason Campbell is a good quarterback lol

[jinxy]

I dont think anyone thinks Tim is a top 10 QB but the malicious hate that ESPN and most of the media have for him is what makes me hope he succeeds. Tim is not the worst starting QB in the league right now. He's in the bottom 10 but next week will be his 8th start and he has a winning record. The comment about winning despite Tebow is idiotic. With other QB's the last year and half denver is 4 and 12 or somethign like that and tebow is 1 game over .500 (i think 4 and 3). John Fox should like tebow since he loves a strong run game. Tim will clearly have to improve if he is to get better than what he is now. However, the hate and magnifying glass that each of his performances are under is ridiculous. Kevin Kolb should be the one that's getting run over by a bus. They traded what a starting CB and a 1st pick for Kolb who is basically John Beck in that he can't throw the ball downfield.

[jinxy]

Mallet come on bro, tell me you didn't just say Campbell had a big role in the Raiders success. There is a huge sample size of him and he's...well...average. If he was so good the raiders wouldn't have went out and dumped two picks for Carson Palmer essentially mean jcamp is out. The raiders are having success because they are a physical defense and a brutal running game with Bush and Mcfadden.

[BJWilliams]

They went out and got Palmer because Campbell broke his collarbone and they didnt have confidence in Kyle Boller jinxy

[BJWilliams]

Im not. I was just mentioning that he missed that aspect of the circumstances of Palmer's arrival in Oakland. Campbell hasnt had consistency wherever he has been. he has had a different OC almost every year since he left Auburn. If he could get some consistency I think he might do better

[LUconn]

The guy is an average QB who was set up to fail in Washington. Oakland gave away their future to get Palmer so they're stuck with him but their doing well was absolutely because of Campbell being the QB and not Jarmacus Russell or Bruce Gradkowski.



I don't get the hate for Tebow. He's not that great of a passer. So what? The fact that he CAN pass, is what makes him effective. It's like having a durable RB line up behind center that you can't simply assume is going to run.

[RubberMallet]

nobody is saying campbell is a fantastic qb you nitwits. during their first 5 games he had a qb rating in the 90's, didn't lose games, and more importantly sustained drives that allowed their terrible defense to stay off the field. then they got 2 starts from a qb who clearly was a huge contributing factor in their losses.

and apparently its being insinuated that the raiders generally make smart personnel decisions so they couldn't of possibly dropped 1st round picks on a qb who may or may not be their starter next year.

[ALUmnus]

I don't get the hate for Tebow. He's not that great of a passer. So what? The fact that he CAN pass, is what makes him effective. It's like having a durable RB line up behind center that you can't simply assume is going to run.

It's funny how everyone is suddenly an expert on footwork and throwing motion. The quarterback position has become one of robotics and sameness.

[RubberMallet]

i dont' think there has been any time in the history of the nfl where people have been educated more about the mechanics and footwork aspect of the QB position. you are pretty much bombarded with it because of this guy. so its easy to see why people are talking about it.

i enjoy his success to be honest. only because it drives the talking heads completely insane and makes for good tv. Chris Carter and keyshawn HATE tim tebow...i can't wait for them to talk about him because its hilarious.

don't be surprised when he runs real well against the jets. this one could be close.

[jinxy]

mallet, YOU said they were winning because of Campbell and Mcfadden. We just said Campbell had very little do with it. BJ, the point is simple. You dont go get Carson and spend those picks on him if you don't think you substantially upgraded at that position. If they viewed Jcamp as their answer long term they wouldn't have gotten palmer, it's simple. Campbell is an average QB.

[RubberMallet]

mallet, YOU said they were winning because of Campbell and Mcfadden. We just said Campbell had very little do with it. BJ, the point is simple.

and you are wrong and i showed you why. they were absolutely winning because of campbell being their qb (90 qb rating, sustained drives, etc) if they weren't you certainly can't then say the broncos are winning because of tebow. where do we dig up these people.

You dont go get Carson and spend those picks on him if you don't think you substantially upgraded at that position. If they viewed Jcamp as their answer long term they wouldn't have gotten palmer, it's simple. Campbell is an average QB.

once again, we are talking about the raiders. you could shine a turd and they'd give you a 1st and third for it. thinking you know what the raiders are going to do based off draft picks traded is completely hilarious.

[jinxy]

i beg to differ, palmer played very very well in their win over the chargers. They didn't run the ball as well. Campbell was the def. of a game manager. I never said they were winning because of Tebow, it's the overall offense that they have changed to it, it may not last. It's not a personal attack mallet, just saying.