[Hold My Own]

Ok guys, I just wanted to take a quick poll b/c Bonds has some yet another book coming out saying in details what he used, how he used it and even has some phone conversations on it....heck in my mind there is no doubt he used them and that's simply going by his bone structure in his face, Acne on his back & face, stretch marks & quite a few other things.....

[PAmedic]

and judging by the fact that he put on about 100 lbs over the last 5 years.

[Hold My Own]

yeah, I forgot the study, but it showed the human body begins to break down after age 29, and it also had a few other key facts...although bonds started absolutely crushing at something like 35 (he's always crushed but not like 72 in one year)

another interesting note is this new book talks about how was using Winstrol which is the only steroid that can actually increase your fast twitch muscles which makes it perfect for baseball (hitting)

[RubberMallet]

regardless of whether it was knowingly or unknowingly, it has been proven that he has...

that being said, barry bonds is a jerk, and he cheated, but regardless, he is the best ball player in our era, maybe even ever. no one has ever struck more fear into the heart of a pitcher than this man..

[PAmedic]

I forget the exact number, but the amount of BBs he's been issued and the % is staggering.

(do they calculate intentional walks separately?)

[Hold My Own]

Speaking about that he absolutely shattered the Intentional Walks in a season record and I think it was one that he held, so I think he is #1, #2 & #3 or something like that which is just crazy....HR per AB is just sick

[A.G.]

I will admit being the lone dissenter. Although I am not from Missouri, I want someone to

the proof, not the circumstantial evidence.

Do I suspect him, heck yes, but in the US of A, we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Of course, it won't take Jack McCoy to convict him.

[bigsmooth]

bonds is a tool!

[RubberMallet]

I will admit being the lone dissenter. Although I am not from Missouri, I want someone to

the proof, not the circumstantial evidence.

Do I suspect him, heck yes, but in the US of A, we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Of course, it won't take Jack McCoy to convict him.

grandjury testimony isn't proof enough

[SuperJon]

From 1998 to 2001 Bonds did not cheat. Taking steroids was not cheating during that time because it was not against the rules. After that, he has yet to test positive. I have no doubt that he used some type of steroids, however, we have no proof that he has ever broken the rules. Before there is a rule in place, it is impossible to break it.

[jcmanson]

SJ, yes steroids was not against the rules in baseball, and the only reason that was was because it hadn't needed to be one yet. All athletes from all sports know it is ethically wrong whether it is a rule or not. Once it became an outspoken problem in baseball, it immediately became a rule. I consider this to still be cheating.

[Hold My Own]

SuperJon, you're correct they were not against the rules...THEY WERE AGANST THE LAW!!!!! MLB doesnt have anything in the rule book about killing people either but you cant do it


also, he said that he used the clear and a few others to the Grand Jury but "Thinking" they were something else....that is my favorite excuse (Sheff used it too) these guys' body are worth millions and millions of dollars yet they dont "know" what they are putting in their bodies

[SuperJon]

I'm gonna pull something from Bill Simmons' article today:

E-mail from reader: At no point were steroids illegal in baseball until after he had played all of his "steroid-enhanced seasons."

Simmons: couldn't agree more. What Bonds did made him unheroic and unlikable, but he wasn't a cheater. He took advantage of a bad system and maximized all the loopholes that were already in place -- loopholes that existed because the commissioner's office and players' union were more than happy to look the other way while the offensive explosion in the late-'90s rejuvenated the nation's interest in baseball. Sure, Bonds ruined his body and his reputation in the process, and he'll be lucky to make it to 60 years old, and he's going to be remembered as the Hall of Fame Bad Guy of his generation … but it's tough to blame someone for breaking the rules when nobody was policing those same rules. His records should stay.

I agree with what Simmons said.

Now, I'm not trying to condone what Bonds did. It was illegal, I know that. I just wrote a paper on steroids in sports. You say MLB doesn't have anything in the rule book about killing people, neither do they have anything against weed, or underage players drinking. Are you telling me that the 19-20 year old players who make it to the pros don't go out and drink it up with the boys even though they're underage? That's just as illegal as taking steroids. Yes, what Bonds did was wrong, however, it wasn't cheating. If it changes him going into the hall of fame, then no player between 1996 and 2003 should go in the hall of fame.

[Hold My Own]

anyone hear what Tim K. said on ESPN tonight....he's no longer going to vote for Bonds b/c of this book! I knew the book would have an effect but I didnt think that powerful

I mean, how dumb does he think we are???? He was MVP in 92 & 93 (his prime) and then goes 10 years before another one...so the late bloomer thing doesnt work...not to mention the huge muscle gains (that he got after his prime ) but whatever, I wanted so bad for Mark to just lie to us on Capitol hill and say he's never touched them instead of his no comment of guilt...I'll never forget getting to meet him as a kid during the home run chase and I really looked up to him and it just made me sad



You know what else I love is how people discredited Jose Canseco's (bad sp) book and yet slowly but surely everything kinda fell into place like he said....People laughed when they heard Ralphy's name and said there's no way and this his little capitol hill gig yet look what happened.....Jose earned credibility in my eyes when someone asked him "It's obvious people like Sammy Sosa have taken steroids, why don't you mention them?" and he said "Because I didn't inject them or supply it for them" I knew at that point he was foreal about this whole thing

It's crazy how many people take them in HS and even at LU

[givemethemic]

I just wish Bonds would just retire and leave the game of baseball alone... He is never going to tell media that he was taking them.. I have been saying this for years that he was on them.....

[Thelaxman]

You Guys make some good points. But remember Boods is also Human. We can judge him because he is not very friendly to the Press and in Public but as I said earlier he is human and may just need a relationship with God to change his direction.

I was at Coors Field in 2003. My Son is a Rockies fan and I take him to see the Rockies every year either in Denver or last year we caught the Rockies in Atlanta. In 03 we went to Denver and got Tickets to see the Giants play. We were hoping to get Boods 's autograpgh. He was injured and did not play. At the time Jackson was 6 years old and had his Autograph book out for Boods to sign and he just kept right on walking by. It was not even worth signing a autograph for a 6 year old little Boy that really admired him. Instead second year Pitcher for the Giants Kurt Ainsworth came up behind Boods and saw what happened and asked my Son if he would want his autograph. Now I know Ainsworth was traded later to Baltimore but I'm not sure where he ended up or if he is still even in Baseball. But he sure was a nice Guy to my Son and treated him with a great deal of respect compared to the superstar Barry Bonds. That was my on personal experience with Bonds at Coors field in Denver.

Over the last 6-7 years Bonds has spend close to a 1/3 of his playing time in that time frame on the DL list . It could be that all that weight has caused some of the knee injuries and the other problems he has had and if he just went natural and stayed injury free he may have already surpassed all these records and would be in the 3000 hit Club. The drugs he has used may possibly done more harm to his Baseball Career then if he had just went natural. He already was a beast at the plate and I believe if he had went natural he would have better stat's then he does today and most of all have his health. If he would have not worried about getting big and just focused on playing Baseball in the end he would have been better off then he is today. Of course that is if all the prof comes out that he used these enhancement drugs.

Thelaxman