[Cider Jim]

...with asterisk.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/base ... 6573.story

[Fumblerooskies]

A shame that history has to be defaced that way.

[scuzdriver]

The Hall of Fame still wants it. The guy had over 10 million votes! The public has spoken.

[Knucklehead]

A shame that history has to be defaced that way.

The most fitting thing that could have been done with the ball from the tainted record.

[SuperJon]

Why is defacing the most famous ball in history the most fitting thing than can be done? Do you realize how many people took steroids? Do you realize steroids don't help you hit home runs? Do you realize Bonds was likely the greatest hitter to ever live before he took steroids?

[thepostman]

you can not say for certain that steroids does not help someone hit homeruns...much like I can't say for certain that it does help....thats just crazy to make statements like that about steroids....nobody is certain one way or another on the effects of steroids and how it translates to hitting, power, and reflexes...any "expert" that tries to say otherwise automatically loses credibility

[SuperJon]

Steroids make you stronger. Steroids keeps you healthy. To hit a home run, you have to hit the ball with the right spot of the bat. 1/16 of an inch to far down the barrel or too far up the barrel and it's not a home run. Barry Bonds has the best plate vision and hand-eye coordination of anyone, ever. Steroids make the home runs go farther, and if you're normally just a pop-up hitter, they'll make the warning track fly-outs into home runs. Bonds was going to hit 600 anyways without the steroids.

[Rocketfan]

Why is defacing the most famous ball in history the most fitting thing than can be done? Do you realize how many people took steroids? Do you realize steroids don't help you hit home runs? Do you realize Bonds was likely the greatest hitter to ever live before he took steroids?

while you can argue most of those points "likely the greatest hitter to ever live before he took steriods" is just silly. Meaning do you know when he actually started....nope none of us do.....but even if you can pick a date, youd have a hard time saying greatest ever without a lot of other opinions being voiced with very good arguements.

[SuperJon]

Every report ever talking about Bonds using steroids has said that he got jealous because of the McGuire/Sosa home run chase and that Bonds started using steroids then. Look at his stats previous to 98. The man was a Hall of Famer then.

[Rocketfan]

Steroids make you stronger. Steroids keeps you healthy. To hit a home run, you have to hit the ball with the right spot of the bat. 1/16 of an inch to far down the barrel or too far up the barrel and it's not a home run. Barry Bonds has the best plate vision and hand-eye coordination of anyone, ever. Steroids make the home runs go farther, and if you're normally just a pop-up hitter, they'll make the warning track fly-outs into home runs. Bonds was going to hit 600 anyways without the steroids.

When they did the autopsy for Chris Beniot they said his brain was deterioted to the point of an 82 year old....its takes a brain to hit a baseball.....the youth arguement may translate to the body, but if the mind is old and slow.....that doesn't hold up.

[Rocketfan]

Every report ever talking about Bonds using steroids has said that he got jealous because of the McGuire/Sosa home run chase and that Bonds started using steroids then. Look at his stats previous to 98. The man was a Hall of Famer then.

HOF probably....greatest to ever live....im not buying.

[SuperJon]

You can't compare the effects of steroids from a baseball player and a man who's 2nd most famous move was jumping from the top rope and head butting a guy. That's apples on steroids vs oranges on steroids.

[Rocketfan]

You can't compare the effects of steroids from a baseball player and a man who's 2nd most famous move was jumping from the top rope and head butting a guy. That's apples on steroids vs oranges on steroids.

why can't you...those are the effects of HGH and steroids.....you can jump and land on the mat all day, the mat doesn't cause any more injuries than laying out for a line drive in the outfield or jumping into the wall at wrigley. Those head butts are fake bro, the mats have so many springs and so much give.....your not threating much injury.

[SuperJon]

The mats give, and wrestling is fake, but some of the hits are real. Don't tell me that, while doing that move 6 nights a week for 10 years, Chris Benoit didn't miss and actually hit a guy with his head. The brutal impact of wrestling makes is a comparison that doesn't work.

[LUconn]

The last HR he ever hits will be the most important ball in baseball history you maroons. Where is Barry's ball that broke McGuire's record? Who cares? This branded ball will be in the cooperstown dumpster in a couple of years.

[Knucklehead]

Steroids make the home runs go farther, and if you're normally just a pop-up hitter, they'll make the warning track fly-outs into home runs. Bonds was going to hit 600 anyways without the steroids.

Let's look at some statistics shall we. I find it strange that he was in the top 10 in doubles in 1989-1993 but his homerun output was much lower in those same years than it would be later when his hed grew to the size of Alaska. The whole point is that the warning track doubles became hrs later on. That's why he then stopped being in the top ten of doubles.

Doubles
1989 NL-34-7
1990 NL-32-10
1992 NL-36-9
1993 NL-38-8
1998 NL-44-7

Home Runs
1988 NL-24-9
1990 NL-33-4
1992 NL-34-2
1993 NL-46-1
1994 NL-37-3
1995 NL-33-4
1996 NL-42-2
1997 NL-40-4
1998 NL-37-9
2000 NL-49-2
2001 NL-73-1
2002 NL-46-2
2003 NL-45-2
2004 NL-45-4

See all of his stats here :
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml

You lost me when you said he was the greatest hitter of all time. Ever heard of Ted Williams?

[SuperJon]

He was at the tops in the league (in the 40's) for home runs before the steroids. He had the one big year which I full believe was steroids turning those doubles into homers. He was already a home run hitter before then. It's not like Brady Anderson popping out 54 homers in a year.

Baseball people are so routed in the past that the general baseball fan doesn't ever think that a current player can be better than someone in the past. Listen to what the players say. Bonds was by-far the best player before steroids. He had more MVP awards than ANYONE, ever, even before he took steroids.

[Rocketfan]

He was at the tops in the league (in the 40's) for home runs before the steroids. He had the one big year which I full believe was steroids turning those doubles into homers. He was already a home run hitter before then. It's not like Brady Anderson popping out 54 homers in a year.

Baseball people are so routed in the past that the general baseball fan doesn't ever think that a current player can be better than someone in the past. Listen to what the players say. Bonds was by-far the best player before steroids. He had more MVP awards than ANYONE, ever, even before he took steroids.

Bonds only actually led the lead in homers twice though....no one cares who came in second. Before the roids or prior to 2001 he only won 3 MVP's by my count. Before 2001 the last MVP was in 1993 and he only finished as high as second once in that span, Raffy was putting up simliar numbers to him in that nearly 10 year span. So he had one more MVP than Teddy ball game, im sorry one more MVP isn't going to convince me of this superb greatness. I hear players say a lot of things about Bonds, but " Greatest player ever" isn't one of them.

Your also giving Brady Anderson credit for 4 homeruns he never hit.

[Realist]

I'll buy that Bonds was the greatest hitter of his generation, steriods or not. However, I don't buy that he's even close to the greatest hitter of all time, that still goes to Ruth. Ruth outhomered entire leagues when he played, with the fences out further, steroids weren't even invented, and bats didn't have as much pop.

I also don't buy that steroids don't help you hit more homers. Bonds was a great hitter, but a great doubles/homers guy and then went to great homers guy. Palmero, a proven user, wasn't a big homerun hitter before a certain time as well.

[bbrothers224]

Every report ever talking about Bonds using steroids has said that he got jealous because of the McGuire/Sosa home run chase and that Bonds started using steroids then. Look at his stats previous to 98. The man was a Hall of Famer then.

HOF probably....greatest to ever live....im not buying.

I don't think you will see Bonds in the HOF...well, he is sort of right now. I was up there during the Cal / Tony deal in late July, and I did see Barry's name (and photo) in the rooms that show the plaques that show totals for HR, 2B, 3B, grand slams, etc., but I doubt that you will see his likeness on a golden plaque in that very special area. Evidence of that can be seen by looking at Mark McGwire's votes for getting in the HOF. We do not vote to see who gets in to the HOF. That is done by members of the HOF and I believe the baseball writers association. There were lots of those folks in Cooperstown in July and the general consensus was that they would vote in Pete Rose before Bonds, because Rose did his betting on baseball while he was a manager...not a player. Granted that Barry does have great skills and would have been a shoo in for the hall during his first year of eligibility...but he basically shot himself in the jerk (or wherever else he injects that stuff...who knows, it may be oral) when he started his steroid routine. He has multiple scarlet S's all over him now.
Now if Bonds wants to roll back all his stats previous to 98...then by all means, he should get into the HOF

[JDUB]

[Schfourteenteen]

There is no way he touches Ruth, teams would have 20 to 25 HR's combined and hed be hitting 45+ HR's in the DEAD BALL ERA. Thats ridiculous to say Barry minus roids is close to Ruth or Williams.Theoretically he shouldnt be in the HOF, even if he didnt use them till later in his career. Pete Rose isnt in the Hall and we cant say he started betting before he was a HOF player. Heres the hard part. As much as I hate Barry and everything he is, how can we say well those HR's from that point came when he was steroids? Does that mean every time he struck out to a pitcher who was on roids, are those void too? We cant know who and what. But for the future of this game they have to start somewhere. Clemens, Pettite, Tejada, Gibbons, Brian Roberts as well as any one who has enough evidence against him should be banned permanently. Why? Becuase everytime Baseball has hit a controversy they have struck back. The Federal League, The Black Sox, Pete Rose, and there is no reason any of these cheaters should be exempt just because "we cant catch all of them"

[SuperJon]

I didn't say Bonds was the best power hitter of all time. That's Ruth and anyone who says different is an idiot. Ruth lost years to being a pitcher or he would've hit over 800 homers.

Look at Bonds' stats:

Over 600 doubles, record homers, almost 3000 hits, .298 average for a career. He's got a .444 CAREER OBP. He's averaged 41 homers and 108 RBIs every year. He has an almost 2:1 walk to strikeout ratio (1.67:1 to be exact). All of this, and he still averages 28 steals a year.

Let's go back to before the reported date of when he started taking steroids (1998). He had 411 home runs. That's an average of 34.25 HR/year. Without the steroids, going on that average, he would've had 719 home runs at the end of this season. Let's just say he only kept that average for another 5 years after 98. That would've given him 582 going into 2003, and he would've easily broken 600 homers. Whatever way you shake it, Barry Bonds would've had 600 homers without steroids.

Until 1998, he had 403 doubles, an average of 33.58 per year. If he continued that pace for 5 more years, he would've had 570 doubles going into 2003, and easily passed 600 for his career.

That's 600 doubles, 600 homers without the help of steroids.

Before 98, when Bonds reportedly started taking steroids, he had a career .313 average and .442 OBP along with 445 stolen bases.

I could go on and on. Barry Bonds is one of the best hitters of all time, even before steroids.

[Schfourteenteen]

Why is defacing the most famous ball in history the most fitting thing than can be done? Do you realize how many people took steroids? Do you realize steroids don't help you hit home runs? Do you realize Bonds was likely the greatest hitter to ever live before he took steroids?

Thats what Im arguing - Barry is not the best hitter ever, Babe Ruth is

700 HR's, in an era where no one had more than 400, 2800 hits, .690 slugging pct, 2200RBI's and he batted .342 3 points less than Ted Williams.

Baseball people are so routed in the past that the general baseball fan doesn't ever think that a current player can be better than someone in the past. Listen to what the players say. Bonds was by-far the best player before steroids. He had more MVP awards than ANYONE, ever, even before he took steroids.

Are you kidding? Yogi Berra, Joe DiMaggio, Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Mantle, Roy Camponsomething, Mike Schmidt and Im missing someone maybe Ted Williams(probably not) all had 3. Also MVP didnt start until the 30's, near the end of Babe's career.
[/quote]

[SuperJon]

I'm sorry, I made a wrong statement. There are many with three. It wasn't until the steroids when he broke that record winning four in a row to make a total of seven. My bad.