[Liberty4Life]

From ESPN via the NY Times

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335

Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were among the 104 major league players listed as having tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, lawyers with knowledge of the results told The New York Times.

The two were key members of the Boston Red Sox World Series championship teams in 2004 and 2007.

Ortiz declined comment to The Times.

Who the heck is leaking these names? I'm pretty sure it's illegal.

[4everfsu]

So the Red Soxs titles are tainted

[SuperJon]

No they're not. When you beat teams that are using steroids by using steroids, nothing's tainted.

[Liberty4Life]

No they're not. When you beat teams that are using steroids by using steroids, nothing's tainted.

Who on the '04 Cardinals team was alleged to be using steroids?

(Not that I disagree with your statement)

[Hold My Own]

Wasnt Rick Ankel on that team?

[Hold My Own]

He was, just checked it out


Not to mention others (not sure if their name came out yet or not) Larry Walker, Reggie Sanders, Tarveraz, Scott Rolen, and others

[Liberty4Life]

Wasnt Rick Ankel on that team?

He only played five games that season.

Walker, Sanders, Rolen, weren't on the Mitchell Report. Tavarez was.

Of course, there are 98 other names on that document.

By the way, the next high-profile athlete to get fingered... Mike Piazza. You can only have so much back-acne (backne?) without juicing.

[jinxy]

It's just part of it now, nothing is tainted becuase the entire sport was engrossed by it. Anyone that thinks that they can pick and choose who was on it and who wasn't needs to wake up. I thought that 3 or 4 years ago, but as every bombshell gets dropped its clear that a large percentage of players were using PED's. My only argument is that Football is loaded with these guys and noyone cares. When Lb's and Te's are running the times at 40's that they do now it's never been more apparent than now that most athlete's are on PED's. So, I take it as that these guys are paid to be entertainers and performers and you should not look at them as role models. Everytime we look up and try to role model a athlete or actor or anything they let us down. Jesus clearly tells us this in the bible that we will always be dissappointed when we place too much trust and hope in men. I just think society today is constantly looking for a role model and someone to admire. These guys are all flawed humans like the rest of us and I know each and every day I start to realize more and more that God is the only one who will never let u down and he has no skeletons in his closet that he needs to worry about.

[Liberty4Life]

I mean, the unfortunate thing is for the guys like Dale Murphy, Will Clark, Fred McGriff, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Alan Trammell (the list goes on...) by all accounts, they kept clean. They were great players, and in any other generation they would have been celebrated like kings. As it stands now, they're banished to the dustbins of history because they didn't opt to cheat.

[BJWilliams]

Whats even more sad is many of these guys wont get into the Hall of Fame because they didnt have those lightning rod gaudy numbers like many of the guys who were on PEDs did (and many of those guys may not get in either)

[adam42381]

It's no big shock to me that Ortiz tested positive. His production has taken a nosedive since testing got serious. They're all cheaters.

BTW, I know he's never tested positive, but Pujols was on the 2004 Cardinals and he's the biggest name that's being whispered these days that hasn't yet been outed.

[Liberty4Life]

It's no big shock to me that Ortiz tested positive. His production has taken a nosedive since testing got serious. They're all cheaters.

BTW, I know he's never tested positive, but Pujols was on the 2004 Cardinals and he's the biggest name that's being whispered these days that hasn't yet been outed.

I'm not sure I follow. At first, you say 'Ortiz's production took a nosedive since testing got serious', saying that his production and steroids were linked. Then you throw out Pujols' name, whose production hasn't declined since testing got serious. I don't get what you're trying to infer.

[adam42381]

It's no big shock to me that Ortiz tested positive. His production has taken a nosedive since testing got serious. They're all cheaters.

BTW, I know he's never tested positive, but Pujols was on the 2004 Cardinals and he's the biggest name that's being whispered these days that hasn't yet been outed.

I'm not sure I follow. At first, you say 'Ortiz's production took a nosedive since testing got serious', saying that his production and steroids were linked. Then you throw out Pujols' name, whose production hasn't declined since testing got serious. I don't get what you're trying to infer.

I'm thinking that Ortiz went off whatever he was taking and didn't continue to work out hard. Pujols is known for his work ethic so even if he came off roids (which can't be assumed since there are still many undetectables out there) his production wouldn't necessarily decline as long as he continued to work out the way he does.

[Rocketfan]

Bronson Arroyo, a former Boston Red Sox teammate of Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, said he would not be surprised to find his name on a list of 104 ballplayers who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, after he had heard a then-legal supplement he was using was tainted with steroids, the Boston Herald reported.

Arroyo, now with the Cincinnati Reds, told the Herald he does not know if Ortiz or Ramirez, who were identified in a New York Times story as also being on the list of 104, were taking anything. He said his knowledge of what his teammates did ended at the clubhouse door. But he does not believe their accomplishments should be diminished as a result.

"Before 2004, none of us paid any attention to anything we took," he said, according to the Herald. "Now they don't want us to take anything unless it's approved. But back then, who knows what was in stuff? The FDA wasn't regulating stuff, not unless it was killing people or people were dying from it."

"Personally, I don't care what people think about what I did. I do what I do."

[Liberty4Life]

Good point, when we think of steroid-users, we think of guys injecting syringes into their butts.

Sometimes, they're just using a supplement and it contains trace amounts of a banned substance. It's like, if I have a poppy-seed bagel, I'd flunk a drug test because they'd find opium in my system.

I mean, the NCAA has banned certain flavors of Vitamin Water. So it's possible -- yes, possible -- that a player gets busted without knowing it.

Although I'd imagine that Ortiz is as guilty as hell.

[flamesbball84]

Good point, when we think of steroid-users, we think of guys injecting syringes into their butts.

Sometimes, they're just using a supplement and it contains trace amounts of a banned substance. It's like, if I have a poppy-seed bagel, I'd flunk a drug test because they'd find opium in my system.

I mean, the NCAA has banned certain flavors of Vitamin Water. So it's possible -- yes, possible -- that a player gets fingered without knowing it.

Although I'd imagine that Ortiz is as guilty as hell.

And the odd thing is, at the mens hoops ncaa tournament, Vitamin Water was a sponsor yet some of their products contain ncaa-illegal substances.

[PAmedic]

So it's possible -- yes, possible -- that a player gets fingered without knowing it.

somehow I think that's not possible

wait, what?

[Liberty4Life]

So it's possible -- yes, possible -- that a player gets fingered without knowing it.

somehow I think that's not possible

wait, what?

Respectfully changed.

[Th3rd]

i just find this funny cause the soxs fans begrudged all us yankee fans when a-rods name came out.


now its one of those hahaha, wow that sucks and yall were joking on us?


but it is a sad testimony to how "clean" a lot of people have claimed to be over the years

[RubberMallet]

So it's possible -- yes, possible -- that a player gets fingered without knowing it.

somehow I think that's not possible

wait, what?

all this talk has me hankerin for some steroids...

[Hold My Own]

If you listen to his interview back in Feb he clearly talks about things that happened in the past should stay in the past but now that their is testing those that test positive now should sit out a year. If anyone was smart they would have asked him back THEN why should they stay in the past. The answer is simple, b/c he was using back then.

[prototype]

Who cares...MLB just needs to release the whole list...take their kick in the balls...and let this all blow over. No wins are tainted, because everyone used steroids back then - it was not against the rules. If there is something that gives an advantage - and a doctor is telling them it's not going to kill them - most are doing it. These purest who think that they wouldn't are idiots- do you see anyone using the old time bats claiming "If Babe used this kind of bat, then I need to too. -or - giving up their under Armour, medal cleats, etc... You don't think Babe would of juiced, if it was available back then???

This conversation is so worn out - they all did it - it's now against the rules - if you get caught you get suspended - if you get caught a second time you get suspended longer - if you're so stupid to take anything again you get banned from ever playing baseball and forced to wear a sign that says "I dumber than a bag of hammers".

It wasn't a rule - it would be like the Olympic Committee changing the rules and not allowing the swimmers to wear those slick outfits and then going back to Phelps and all the other swimmers and taking their medals and stripping their world records away. NOT HAPPENING and those suits are the reason they are swimming so fast.