[bigsmooth]

Haize my good man I mean no disrespect, but have you ever even been a student or at te very least worked at Liberty? While quite witty I am beginning to think you aren't as qualified to post on such topics as you claim to be.

It is common knowledge that kids who live off campus don't have to go to Convo. Only we students living in the dorms have attendance taken.

I estimated - 20K resident students = 14-15k on campus in dorms and another 5-6 off campus.

if you only knew who haize was.....he knows quite a bit and very qualified. his comedy routine sometimes gets in the way though...and his tebowing.....

[BJWilliams]

I just find it ironic that someone with the username "logic" is looking less and less logical with each new post (which is then thusly shredded up and down by Purple or smoothie or any number of other people that he apparently has vastly underestimated)

[Cider Jim]

I was under the impression that you knew 20,000 resident students was the new goal.

Yes, and the 20,000 includes both on-campus and off-campus students in the resident program.

[rogers3]

the city would be dumb to get into an agreement to build something that LU will want for convo three times a week.

I don't know whether it would be "dumb" or not, but having customers "three times a week" is a good thing. Your argument makes no sense.

I make no sense?? Do you not understand the issues that LU has with convo- as in changeover for other productions. Do you really think that the city would want a two day event that is bracketing convo. Do you not think that LU will want to pay bottom dollar for use of the facility. Do you think that the city wants a large facility to end up only being able to house LU convos (because they won't have much time to make money with it on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday nights. Next, LU will want campus church there. I doubt you understand the ins and outs of such a deal, so before you spout off about whether I make sense or not, how about calling Jeff Helgeson over on City Council. He'll tell you much the same. He is an LU grad, so you can feel free to run that "having customers three times a week" logic by him. Dumb move and it won't happen.

[bigsmooth]

and a big kick in the jimmy from rogers....

[TH Spangler]

Is there any chance that Liberty's hockey moves from Club level to NCAA Div-I or III. If so, what is the chance of an arena having ice also?

[From the class of 09]

Is there any chance that Liberty's hockey moves from Club level to NCAA Div-I or III. If so, what is the chance of an arena having ice also?

I'd say no at least for the next 5-10 years or so as the wrestling program was cut to improve our title IX numbers. It would kinda look bad to turn around and add a different men's sport after you just cut a team. Although maybe moving up in women's hockey might be possible

[flamesfan30]

yea a civic center makes no sense financially for the city.

sometimes i think it would be easier to put a roof (maybe even a tent or something) over williams stadium and just move convo there.

[Purple Haize]

Simple solution -

1. Expand the vines to 15,000 (large enough for Convo with 20,000 students)

2. Use curtains to hide the upper deck during basketball games (vines would look the same as it does now)


I've seen this done at places and it works well.

logic, That was your ORIGINAL post.

1. Expand the Vines to 15,000 (Large enough to support Convo with a total resident population of 20,000 students, assuming at most 70% live on campus and knowing off campus students are not required to attend)

Happy now old boy? Need to keep up with me, I was under the impression that you knew 20,000 resident students was the new goal. I've seen 20 mentioned a lot more often lately than the old 25.

That was your second post.

It doesn't take a quiz bowl champ to see there is a difference.

Also how can you be a resident student live off campus? I thought that is what off campus students did?

[Purple Haize]

yea a civic center makes no sense financially for the city.

sometimes i think it would be easier to put a roof (maybe even a tent or something) over williams stadium and just move convo there.

It works for Syracuse.

[logic]

Haize


I was assumimg you knew 20,000 was the student goal and assumimg you knew not everyone was required to attend Convo... the 15,000 comment made sense if you had known these things.

Resident = Living anywhere, taking classes on campus and perhaps online (blended) but not always living on campus, could drive 30 min to attend class on campus
Online = living anywhere, taking classes strictly online, could live closer to campus than a resident student

Within resident -

On campus = kids who live in a dorm
Commuter = kids who do not live in a dorm

Liberty has 80,000 some students........roughly 13,000 are considered "resident" and take classes on campus. The goal is 20,000 students taking classes on campus, of which roughly 60% would live in the dorms and 40% would commute.

Expanding the Vines would be easy. It is afterall, a huge bowl.

1. Take the roof off (comes apart easily)
2. Add another deck of seats around the entire bowl with suites on the "ground level" - what would be the first row of the 2nd deck
3. Put on a new, bigger roof

Would have to find a place to play for a year but this would be easy. Think Michigan Stadium - Just a big bowl - keep adding up and out and make the circle bigger. With the road that splits DeMoss and Vines being demolished there is plenty of room to expand out. Let's hope we build the practice courts with Vines expansion in mind!!

[Purple Haize]

Don't trip over yourself back peddling. You would save yourself a lot of grief if you said what you actually meant. Your last post is a case in point. It is in material whether I know what the stated goal of LUs enrollment is or not. What is important is that we know what you are talking about. The middle part of your post did a nice job spelling out what you meant. On campus as opposed to off campus, you broke down percentages etc.
Now as for your Vines center fix, you have a couple of issues. The first being proportionality of an added 'deck' and its footprint. The second being the added weight. Third it still doesn't solve several other problems. What would the sight lines be? Are you really adding to the value of the venue or just more seats?

[ballah09]

Is there any chance that Liberty's hockey moves from Club level to NCAA Div-I or III. If so, what is the chance of an arena having ice also?

I'd say no at least for the next 5-10 years or so as the wrestling program was cut to improve our title IX numbers. It would kinda look bad to turn around and add a different men's sport after you just cut a team. Although maybe moving up in women's hockey might be possible

i was going to say they couldn't just add men's hockey. they would have to add women's hockey.

28- scholarships fro men

25- for women

add diving to swimming and that should should cover title ix?? correct?


i always heard they didn't want to spend travel cost. they rather save money for football

[logic]

Haize -


I don't spell everything out line by line because I expect people to know the basics....enrollment goals, definition of resident students, etc.

1. Sight lines are an issue.
2. Weight is not an issue - ground level is where the second deck would start

[flamesfan30]

but the ground the vines is built on is pretty dang soft, as it was built on top of a creek. more weight on that soft ground might make the whole thing sink, or something. i have no idea if this would have any impact on this or not, just throwing it out there.

[flamehunter]

but the ground the vines is built on is pretty dang soft, as it was built on top of a creek. more weight on that soft ground might make the whole thing sink, or something. i have no idea if this would have any impact on this or not, just throwing it out there.

Not to mention that much of the perimeter footings were set on fill dirt.

[Purple Haize]

but the ground the vines is built on is pretty dang soft, as it was built on top of a creek. more weight on that soft ground might make the whole thing sink, or something. i have no idea if this would have any impact on this or not, just throwing it out there.

Not to mention that much of the perimeter footings were set on fill dirt.

Well I just assumed he knew that I'm not sure how you start a second level on the ground floor, but I assume he knows what he means. I also just assumed he knew the dimensions needed to meet the addition of an upper deck at the Vines. And it goes without saying that it would be foolish not to assume he knows how to apply an X Ray vision field to allow people to see through the large cement and steel columns.
Yeah, this is much easier.

[flamehunter]

Of course you know that the new scoreboard (center hung, I might add) solves all of the sight line problems. I shouldn't have to spell that out should I?

[Purple Haize]

Of course you know that the new scoreboard (center hung, I might add) solves all of the sight line problems. I shouldn't have to spell that out should I?

Yes because of the reflective mirrors that everyone knows they are going to install. And that would make sure the upper deckers can see the video screens which will now all be DLP !

[logic]

http://www.libertyflames.com/media/1912 ... flames.com

I see two "upper decks" there...is it impossible to imagine those decks circling the entire Vines?

Where is your vision haize?

P.S. If they're going to build the practice courts behind the Vines and right up against the lake I don't know that the land is a concern to them. Pretty sure the architects would have taken that into consideration.

[Purple Haize]

2 upper decks?
I can assume you know that an artists renditioning is just that, it's nothing set in stone.
I also assume you know that artists don't consult structural engineers for the feasibility of their drawings.
And of course you recall the issues they had when they started working on the grounds around The Bill

PS Is it safe to assume you know the myriad of projects that have met there doom in the area between the Vines and the Circle area? Of course it is.

[logic]

You're a tough sell my friend. You rail against a Vines expansion yet you're against a civic center as well. At least in that aspect we find some common ground. The Vines is only 20 years old, and with a proper expansion and renovation could support our Convo and basketball needs for the next 20 years.

What is your solution, haize?

[jbock13]

You're a tough sell my friend. You rail against a Vines expansion yet you're against a civic center as well. At least in that aspect we find some common ground. The Vines is only 20 years old, and with a proper expansion and renovation could support our Convo and basketball needs for the next 20 years.

What is your solution, haize?

But there's no way you can have upper balconies hold the weight in the vines. It's probably why it is scrapped.

Having said that logic, I don't have the answer either, just trying to add more the conversation. I think it really has to be asked if we need a new arena. The Vines is fine, but based on convo attendance, problems will occur pretty soon. I really don't see how Vines can be expanded anymore.

I remember when I was 8 driving by the Vines. I said, "mom, what's that big giant golfball doing on the side of the road!"

[Purple Haize]

Logic, I think you need to contact Cider and see if they need a manager for the quiz bowl teams because your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking. I'm all for renovating the Vines but it would have to be gutted.
I am against an off campus civic center because that will be an albatross.
The best solution IMO is to start over somewhere else on campus. I assume you know where I'm talking about.

[logic]

The Vines is in the perfect spot for Convo/basketball IMHO...easy walk from DeMoss and the dorms via the tunnel...

Gutted is a start. I'm less worried about sight lines and more concerned with where to eventually put 15,000 for Convo. I do not want to see us split up, and do I do not want to walk or bus to an off campus site. I think we worry about sight lines when we're consistently putting 6,000+ in there for games.