[logic]

No....L Fan is convinced Barber has a "lack of vision" for allowing wrestling to be cut. In previous posts..should have quoted.

[jbock13]

No. What logic is pointing out is that a lot more people care about football than wrestling.

I'm sorry if it's not what you'd like to hear, but it's the truth. Thus, don't be surprised if nobody shows up, that your sport is cut.

Hopefully I don't have to add my disclaimer for the 17th time that I'm not happy wrestling got cut. But it had to be done.

[Dan P]

Oy vey!

I don't even know where to start with some of you'all. Okay ---here we go....

Suprjon- NOBODY is advocating cutting footbally. In fact, the roster management plan that I offered (which is just like the ones used in the BIG-10) increases the women roster slots & spread loads the (few) remaining male cuts to all of the male sports (except football). Would this make the male sports teams less cmpetitive --- NO! Eaxmple --- our baseball team carrys 36 on the roster -- the national average is 29 for a D-I baseball program. Our baseball team could give up 5 or 6 slots and STILL have more on their roster than the average D-I baseball team.

jbrock & logic--- Wrestling didn't have to be cut. All the AD had to do was follow the model of the Big-10 and Big-12 schools (but I guess they aren't good examples of direction we want LU to go??). INcrease the women rosters --- spread the cuts fairly to the other men programs (while still keeping all programs within range of the national average for roster spots). It could have been done - with some imagination and creativity by the AD.

LUfan is correct - Barber does lack creativity and vision. I know he applied for the LSU job (didn't get it) -- he does not belong at LU. There is a "cultural" mis-match and it is just a matter of time before the LU administration sees him for what he is. Not right for LU.

[Sly Fox]

For the record, the Big Ten schools have a much better recruiting position than we do in the Big South so they don't have to gamble quite as much on roster players for baseball. We have need more roster spots to find contributors than Michigan or Ohio State. While I agree that slicing down roster size for LU baseball is definitely worthy of discussion, the Big Ten argument is a bit apples to oranges.

[Aaron Bruce]

For the record, the Big Ten schools have a much better recruiting position than we do in the Big South so they don't have to gamble quite as much on roster players for baseball. We have need more roster spots to find contributors than Michigan or Ohio State. While I agree that slicing down roster size for LU baseball is definitely worthy of discussion, the Big Ten argument is a bit apples to oranges.

Sly, you ment the Big X has better recruiting in FOOTBALL didn't you; if not, please disregard.

That’s interesting, I admittedly know VERY little about football. I always assumed that a 90 man roster just made the team look “big” on the other side of the field and the “Rudy” story was an extremely rare event. How many positions are there in football? I really don’t know. After you use a few of the same guys on the special teams does the total come to around 35?

That being said; pray tell, how does cutting non-scholarship male walk-ons advance the women’s agenda? I have two primary complaints with the enforcement of Title IX. 1) Cutting walk-ons to produce some arbitrarily quota and 2) Requiring that private funds that were raised by the male team to be shared with the women’s team. Both of these are absolute travesties and have more to do with punishing men than they do advancing women.

DanP- please don’t see this as an attack on your plan, it is a good plan that I support. This is simply another rant against this social injustice.

[Sly Fox]

No, I actually was referencing non-revenue sports such as baseball and others as suggested by Dan P's proposal.

[Dan P]

Sly- Just an FYI .... I strongly suggest we quit referring to football as a revenue sport. I know (for a fact) that at LU the program is costing millions more than it is taking in. In fact, at 85% of all D-I schools, football costs more money than it makes. Hardly a "revenue" sport.

But ... I know what you mean. Due to ESPN and mainstream media, "revenue" is a generally an accepted term when referring to football and basketball (which between the two, B-ball is actually a revenue sport). In the case of football - its amore of a money "pit" for 85% of all D-I schools.

Aaron B- no worries --- I support your rant against the injustices of title IX as well. But - until we are in a position to effectively rid ourselves of the titleIX scourge, we are forced to conduct roster management and the like....

[jbock13]

jbrock & logic--- Wrestling didn't have to be cut. All the AD had to do was follow the model of the Big-10 and Big-12 schools (but I guess they aren't good examples of direction we want LU to go??). INcrease the women rosters --- spread the cuts fairly to the other men programs

In other words... make all other sports (except probably football) suffer so we can keep our beloved wrestling.

I can't be for that at all. Please understand, Dan P, it's nothing personal. I just think you and I have a different view of LU and that's fine.

[Dan P]

jbrock & logic--- Wrestling didn't have to be cut. All the AD had to do was follow the model of the Big-10 and Big-12 schools (but I guess they aren't good examples of direction we want LU to go??). INcrease the women rosters --- spread the cuts fairly to the other men programs

In other words... make all other sports (except probably football) suffer so we can keep our beloved wrestling.

I can't be for that at all. Please understand, Dan P, it's nothing personal. I just think you and I have a different view of LU and that's fine.

As far as my statement about a fair distribution of the remaining cuts on the men's side - I actually proposed cutting the men's wrestling team from 39 down to 24 --- that's a 15 person cut. I then suggested cutting baseball only down by 5 --- from 36 down to 31 (which STILL keeps their roster numbers over the national average!). How's THAT for fair?!?

You know --- jbrock, I think you are correct. I do have a different view of what LU was suppose to be. Call me crazy, but I didn't think LU would lie to me (or my kid) with regard to the solvency of the wrestling program.
By the way .... this makes for interesting reading ...
http://www.sparkweekly.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... e=printart

[Dan P]

I forgot to ask ....Jbock- did my proposal of roster management seem fair?

[jbock13]

I forgot to ask ....Jbrock- did my proposal of roster management seem fair?

First of all, it's jbock.

Second of all, what you're advocating is that to save wrestling, we should lessen our ability to compete in other sports. From an executive standpoint, I would not make such a move. It doesn't make sense to "spread the pain" around. I'm sorry that we had to cut a sport, but wresting was that sport. I'm sorry that it wouldn't be your choice, and I'm not even sure it would have been mine. But what's done is done. And the conspiracy nonsense is just making you look bad.

I say that with due respect.

[logic]

Dan P -


Some rather bold statements you make. I have heard a lot about how wrestlers are the model of truth, honesty, character, etc. etc. etc...So how about you put your money where your mouth is and answer the following questions honestly -


1. IF it had been baseball, track, or soccer that was cut, would you still be on here saying that Barber lacks vision and creativity? Would you still consider him a cultural mismatch for LU if wrestling were not cut? Would you still insist it is only a matter of time until the administration sees him for what he is?

2. Getting back to vision - the vision here is football and basketball - What part of that vision do you not understand? The vision is football/basketball getting to the top and all the Olympic sports coming along for the ride. With regards to vision, the original vision of Falwell Sr. and this university, Barber is doing just fine. (see football/basketball recent success and football renovation with Vines renovation planned)



You're going after the wrong guy here. Barber is not to blame and has done incredible things for this university in such a short time. Look at all the recent facility upgrades and success. How many Sasser Cups have we won? The football renovation and talk of moving up to the FBS level does not happen without Barber. All across the board he is hiring quality coaches who are having tremendous success - look at his hires - all successful thus far. Rocco with 4 championships and Layer with a 2nd place Big South team after only two years at the helm, and did so after having to completely rebuild, having lost a guy who is now starting for some team named Duke.

Again I hear a lot about wrestlers and their honor, character, etc...man up and admit that your disdain with Barber lies solely with his decision to cut YOUR sport...me, myself, I. Had this been a different sport my guess is we wouldn't have heard a word from you and you would have thought the world of Barber for not cutting YOUR sport.

Emotion ruling out logic, self interests crowding out what is best for the university as a whole. Typical of humans and it is hard to blame you - we all want what is best for #1.

[jbock13]

Again I hear a lot about wrestlers and their honor, character, etc...man up and admit that your disdain with Barber lies solely with his decision to cut YOUR sport...me, myself, I. Had this been a different sport my guess is we wouldn't have heard a word from you and you would have thought the world of Barber for not cutting YOUR sport.

Right on here logic. Of course, it's the same thing I've been saying

[4everfsu]

Please, enough on the AD. If you think you replace him with another AD that wrestling would come back, that is not going to happen. Wrestling will never come back unless someone gives LU a million just dedicated to wrestling and then some to help establish some girls programs.

[Dan P]

First off- Jbock, I apologize for misspelling your name. I will go back and edit previous posts and get it right.

Logic- This is just my opinion (the entire email), but I do not see those statements as being bold at all. IF Barber had cut baseball, track, ect … my opinion would still be that his decision lacks creativity and vision. Would I be investigating to the extent I am now? No – I wouldn’t. But I would still hold the same opinion of him.

Would I support the wrestlers standing up in solidarity with the team that was cut- you bet I would! I KNOW that once an AD goes down this path of CUTTING opportunities for males (even when the school is compliant), then it is not likely the AD will stop there. If CUTTING sports is the only answer of the AD, then I doubt that they have seriously looked at all of the other options. Anyone that immediately jumps to “cutting” as a solution, isn’t compatible with LU in my opinion. Just a matter of time … before enough light is shined ….

Thirdly - I understand the vision is football. But here’s something you all might want to consider – football costs the university a great deal more money than it brings in and will continue to do so for many, many, many years. IMO, the reason LU pursues football as much as they do is because it brings mainstream media’s attention to LU. Currently, football has about 66 scholarships (and 94 on roster) --- to move to the FBS level, they need to go up to 84 scholarships. That means LU needs a total of 18 more scholarships. By cutting wrestling, it seems the AD now has knocked that number down to 8. Look out, Golf, Soccer, track ---- AD needs 8 more scholarships.

Logic- judging by your response, you are very close to the AD. I understand trying to look out for one’s own.
You’ve asked me to “man-up” – and so I have. My record is a lifetime of service to my country , supporting an institution founded on the principles of honour, character, and courage. My distain lies with a decision to cut ANY sports without seriously looking at other options. IMO, Barber probably thought this situation wouldn’t escalate as it has. Maybe if he had picked another sport, it might not have – but he didn’t – he picked wrestling & wrestlers do not go down easy.

[jbock13]

IMO, Barber probably thought this situation wouldn’t escalate as it has.

Well, other than 3 people on an internet message board, it seems nobody else seems to care.

[PAmedic]

IMO, Barber probably thought this situation wouldn’t escalate as it has.

Well, other than 3 people on an internet message board, it seems nobody else seems to care.

that's a stupid comment. New flash: just because you're not aware of things going on outside your college-kid sphere of influence doesnt mean they're not happening.

I've been pretty respectful to date and stayed out of most of this, but now you seem to be taking delight in watching people personally affected by this suffer. Not cool.

And with that, it's as good a time as any to lock this thread down. If news breaks changing the situation- someone can open it back up.

God Bless Coach Castro and Liberty Wrestling.