[Schfourteenteen]

MVP's can only get you so far, and you cant use that when talking about a player who had no opportunity to win such an award(actually I think Ruth got one near his end but Im not sure) I doubt you could make a case for any other player in the mid 1920's.

Bonds isnt close to the hitter Babe was, period.

[belcherboy]

I love Barry and also think the ball shouldn't be branded, but steroids have made a big difference in this guys career IMO. Not from a power standpoint, but from a healing standpoint. The biggest draw for steroid use in MLB is because it heals injuries MUCH faster. From what I understand it can cut healing times in half by allowing the muscles to heal at a quicker pace (making users feel as fresh as they did in April in the middle of August). This makes older men healthier and stronger when most guys in their 30's and 40's are falling apart. It could be argued he was healthier because of steroids, and thus he was able to put up bigger numbers. If he is ever caught red handed having used steroids, I do hope he is humiliated for it, but I still think he should get the same recognition as any other hall of famer though. MLB created the steroids scandal by letting it go unchecked (on purpose IMO). They are as much to blame as Barry and the rest of the steroid generation. Let this generation be grandfathered in and then make if a high punishment from this point forward on the league for breaking the rule.

[Schfourteenteen]

If he is ever caught red handed having used steroids, I do hope he is humiliated for it, but I still think he should get the same recognition as any other hall of famer though.

coughcoughPeteRosecough

[jmdickens]

you can not say for certain that steroids does not help someone hit homeruns...much like I can't say for certain that it does help....thats just crazy to make statements like that about steroids....nobody is certain one way or another on the effects of steroids and how it translates to hitting, power, and reflexes...any "expert" that tries to say otherwise automatically loses credibility

Steroids might have helped Hank Aaron too......it is BS the ball is branded

[belcherboy]

If he is ever caught red handed having used steroids, I do hope he is humiliated for it, but I still think he should get the same recognition as any other hall of famer though.

coughcoughPeteRosecough

If the use of steroids had already been branded as an offense that would get you banned from baseball, than I would agree. Pete Rose knew if he gambled on baseball games, while an employee of Major League Baseball, that he could and most likely would be banned from baseball. Illegal substance use has never been an offense that could keep you out of the hall of fame and keep you from holding any job in major league baseball (cough*Darrell Strawberry*cough). Gambling is, and was a known rule when Pete Rose broke it in the late 80's and early 90's.

Completely different situations. Gambling almost killed baseball, and that is why they gave it the death penalty (harshest penalty in baseball). If they banned people for using steroids, than they need to ban the emery board/sandpaper/Vaseline pitchers of the 80's. Cheating to try and get a competitive edge is different than cheating to help the gambling community, at least in the rules of major league baseball.

[SuperJon]

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame as a player.

[Rocketfan]

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame as a player.

Now that we agree on....

[SuperJon]

My biggest thing with Bonds is steroids were not illegal in baseball at the time he was using them. Was it immoral, unethical, and all of that? Yea, definitely. However, they were not banned. It was allowed for them to take them so it cannot be proven that Bonds ever broke the rules.

[adam42381]

If you're looking at being a pure hitter, Ty Cobb must be considered. His career average was .366. He hit over .400 3 times. He was the all-time hits leader before Rose. Just look at the stats. http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cobbty01.shtml

[thepostman]

technically they weren't legal....just not banned in baseball

[RubberMallet]

My biggest thing with Bonds is steroids were not illegal in baseball at the time he was using them. Was it immoral, unethical, and all of that? Yea, definitely. However, they were not banned. It was allowed for them to take them so it cannot be proven that Bonds ever broke the rules.

ITS AGAINST THE LAWm THE US LAW....this superceeds baseball rules in my mind....if its not legal in the country you live in, there is no free pass in the training room...

[Rocketfan]

My biggest thing with Bonds is steroids were not illegal in baseball at the time he was using them. Was it immoral, unethical, and all of that? Yea, definitely. However, they were not banned. It was allowed for them to take them so it cannot be proven that Bonds ever broke the rules.

ITS AGAINST THE LAWm THE US LAW....this superceeds baseball rules in my mind....if its not legal in the country you live in, there is no free pass in the training room...

You said it before i did, i agree....it should have been common sense.

[RubberMallet]

by the way, the difference between 100 mph swing and a 105 mph swing(and considering a level swing) is huge if you look at trajection

100 mph swing - 24-47 degrees to get the ball to go a minimum of 340'
105 mph swing - 20-51 degrees to get the ball to go a minimum of 340'

your margin of error is almost 10 degrees of difference...

and a +5mph speed improvement is a low estimate of power increase in pre steroid, post steroid.....

do you know how many hr's bond hit that were less than 350'? lots.....lots of possibly fly outs there...

look i don't really care...this is the steroid era, asterisk or not, everyone knows it....he was great before he "did" steroids...now we'll never know for sure....i agree, best hands best speed, best eyes....he's phenominal...but it DOES help you hit homeruns...

[RubberMallet]

Let's go back to before the reported date of when he started taking steroids (1998). He had 411 home runs. That's an average of 34.25 HR/year. Without the steroids, going on that average, he would've had 719 home runs at the end of this season. Let's just say he only kept that average for another 5 years after 98. That would've given him 582 going into 2003, and he would've easily broken 600 homers. Whatever way you shake it, Barry Bonds would've had 600 homers without steroids.

but even the best hitter fall off in their waining years...to say he'd of continued on at 34 bombs a year isn't feasible...

[SuperJon]

I said for five years. It's not unthinkable for him to stay at the pace until 2003 before falling off.

[belcherboy]

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame as a player.

Well it was a clear rule that you would be banned from baseball (hall of fame included) if you were caught betting on baseball while working for MLB. It was the one rule that EVERYONE knew not to break. The penalty was clear and harsh. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. He is in the hall of fame, just not as a player. (I believe they have a big section with his name, picture(s), and record(s) in it.

With Pete, I'm in favor of him entering the hall of fame, after his death. He lied to cover up his gambling on baseball games and called other men liars. Now that he has admitted the truth, I have yet to hear him publically apologize for the vicious comments he made over the years about the character of many people in baseball. It turned out that they were right, and he was the liar. After nearly a decade of denial, he finally admitted to gambling, but as far as I know, never apologized to those he publically lied about when he was claiming his innocence.

His accomplishment(s) should be honored in the hall, but as a person he should not be honored IMO. When he dies, vote him in unanimously.

[pbow]

I can't believe how stupid mark ecko is to have the ball branded!!! It's a stupid publicity stunt.

If Barry Bonds doesn't get into the HOF then I don't see what the purpose of even having a HOF is.

[TDDance234]

It was a lot of money to make a 'statement' -- whether you think Bonds "did it" or not, to waste that much money and ruin a ball that deserves its place among baseball lore is ridiculous.

[4everfsu]

First ball in the HOF for a juiced player

[scuzdriver]

First ball in the HOF for a juiced player

maybe, maybe not.

[4everfsu]

Ya like Michael Vick was not in dog fighting, he said it so it must be true. Sure I will believe anything Barry says. NOT!