If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#95965
I've heard stories about what was going on. The reason I say "quit" is because of the timing. Had he left after the season way back in the summer of 06, I would not say a word. However, he made it to January/February before leaving.



Also, at what point do the players stop running the program and the coaches and administrators who were hired to run the program actually get to do it?
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#95968
He would not have left if Dr. Falwell did not tell him that he understands why he is leaving and even agreed with it, and in a few months something will be taking place


They wont stop running the program until someone has a good hand on the pulse. The players were in the worst situation possible and nobody wanted to listen to them.
Last edited by TruthSlayer11 on July 6th, 2007, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
By thesportscritic
Registration Days Posts
#95969
i agree with jon on this issue. bream and gutterman don't have any college coaching experience.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#95970
But the thing is, Dr. Falwell hired Jeff Barber to run the program. He gave Jeff Barber his complete trust. If Jeff Barber hired Jim Toman, and Jim Toman doesn't want to hire Randy Tomlin, then no wrong doing has been done. The man hired to make the big decisions (Barber) made the decision. Dr. Falwell trusted him to do that, and he's doing his job.
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#95971
Assistant coach's dont have to have coaching experience. Being an assistant is where you get that experience! Beleive me I'll play a lot harder for a Randy Sid or Lee regardless of experience or not. Again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HEAD COACH
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#95972
Also, going back to your "you need an alum as a coach" point:

Teams with either the head coach or one of the top assistants being alums, average finish in 06-07: 4.3 (wrestling had no conference, thus I didn't take them into consideration for this number)

Teams with either the head coach or top assistants not being alums, average finish in 06-07: 1.5


Doesn't seem like having an alum on staff is as big of a deal as you say it is.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#95977
Truthslayer, it is not quite correct to say the Steelers interviewed Mike Tomlin "for the heck of it". Yes, it is true they were fulfilling the NFL requirement to interview minority candidates, but that was something they take very seriously, since the policy was the brain child of their owner, and is called the "Rooney rule".

Also, although the Steelers had some other candidates in mind, it isn't like they had already decided; and the other candidated were also NFL assistants like Tomlin, who was after all the Viking's defensive coordinator. Last time I checked that was about as high as you can get in the NFL short of being the head coach. It is true that Tomlin was not at the top of their list until his interviews, where he "blew them away" with his passion and enthusiasm, but I somehow doubt there is anything Sid could have said which would have overcome the enormous disparity between his resume and Tomin's when it comes to qualifications for this position, especially in light of the fact that by all reports, Tomin's interview was also quite impressive. In general, I am against token interviews, and IMHO that is what interviewing Sid would have been.
User avatar
By JDUB
Registration Days Posts
#95979
i will not claim to have inside knowledge, because i definitely don't. but it seems to me that since we have the top recruiter in the country coaching, he probably knows what he's doing, and doesn't need some former player telling him how to do it. if the players he's recruiting need someone to talk to about how a student sees the school, why would they want to talk to a coach who was there 15-20 years ago? let them talk to current players. there the best ones to say whether the program/school is good or not. i think this is one of the problems with the former staff, the current players didn't have good things to say about the program.
so what i'm saying is, we dont need an alum on staff, b/c all the staff has to do is convince them to visit and the players can tell them what its like to be a student here.
User avatar
By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#95980
ouch.

mommy, my head hurts.

make it stop
User avatar
By JDUB
Registration Days Posts
#95981
take some of jon's vicodon. it'll help
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#95982
Hey it's whatever, yall didnt believe me a few weeks ago when I said they wanted to coach, or did you believe me when I said Radford wanted him, and you still dont and thats fine if only walls could talk.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#95983
I've got plenty left.

It didn't work for me.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#95984
TruthSlayer11 wrote:Hey it's whatever, yall didnt believe me a few weeks ago when I said they wanted to coach, or did you believe me when I said Radford wanted him, and you still dont and thats fine if only walls could talk.
I believed you. Radford wants anybody that'll coach there. It's a horrible situation over there and they'd take me or you if we interviewed for it.
User avatar
By JDUB
Registration Days Posts
#95985
oh i believe that they want to coach, but just because they want to doesn't mean they should automatically be given a contract. let Barber/Toman pick the coaches, and if there the guys, great, if not, thats fine too. lets get the best coaches we can, which we already started with toman as head coach, and lets continue with the assistants.
User avatar
By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#95988
bottom line- whether they coach here or not, I'd like to see LU step up and let successful athletes who have made it to the next level stay involved, in SOME fashion, with their programs.

Gado
E. Green (yup- I said it)
Shelton
Carswell
Feenstra
Bream
Guetterman


Look at 'Bama, Penn St, Michigan, etc- their old guys always return and stay connected.

No, I have NO idea how you do that. Just putting it out there.
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#96000
Truth, we have talked about this in PM's but to say that the three alums were not interviewed is not totally correct. One did not apply, (hard to interview him) the other two were spoken to, and maybe they were not given a formal on-site interview, (which appears to be your definition of an interview) I am confident they were given the status of the interview process and what Barber was looking for.
To say that Barber had his mind made up before the process began is assuming a lot of things. Would Toman be interested, could we pay him, would he be a good fit, etc. I know for a fact that there were other candidates, who were as qualified as Toman who applied for the job, and were given very careful consideration. Sometimes in the business world, the thing that helps a leader when making hiring decisions is past experiences with a candidate. Many times, I have considered two equally qualified candidates but have hired the person with whom I had a favorable past association, or a peer manager has had a positive experience with. Sometimes this can also make the difference between candidates when they are not equally, but closely qualified and the decision is made to hire the less qualified candidate.
So, I know you said you were not talking about HC, you were talking about assistants now. Don't you think that Toman should be able to hire who he wants? Should he be told you have to hire this guy ot that guy? IF I was the HC, I would not have taken the position if those guidelines were in place. After all his performance is going to be measured ultimately by how successful the program is. They are not going to fire the assistants if the program is not meeting expectations, they will fire Toman (remember Pastors).
On another note, do we know that any of these three guys have applied for an assistant position, were they interviewed, is the salary something they can live with/on? We don't know that, especially based on how you have chosen to define interview. I also know for a fact that other alums have applied for the assistant positions. Does that mean Toman "owes" them an interview? I also know for a fact that other alums applied for the HC position, were talked to on the phone (not an in-person interview, probably just like many others), and have zero interest in becoming an assistant, because they have better opportunities in their current positions. Should Toman interveiw them anyway so maybe he can talk one of them into joining his staff to tell prospective players they have to go to convo 3 times a week, and "I have been there and done that" and it is not that bad? Kinda seems like a waste to me.
Finally, IF Sid goes to Raturd, that will be his decision and he may make them a very good coach. Personally, I would root for him to win every game that does not have a bearing on LU's record or ability to win the conference. Does that mean we made the wrong decision in hiring our HC or assistants becuase we let a former alum go to another school, and we may not have someone on our staff to say I went to LU and the rules aren't really that strict?
Until JB makes a decision that is obvioulsy not in the best interest of LU sports, I think we have to trust him and the people whom he has hired to make the correct personnel decisions. Believe me, in the best of times, no one here knows 100% of the entire picture.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#96006
Medic,

You forgot the school where former players are more engaged than anywhere, and it may shoot your entire theory..............................................MIAMI!
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#96034
PAmedic wrote:bottom line- whether they coach here or not, I'd like to see LU step up and let successful athletes who have made it to the next level stay involved, in SOME fashion, with their programs.

Gado
E. Green (yup- I said it)
Shelton
Carswell
Feenstra
Bream
Guetterman


Look at 'Bama, Penn St, Michigan, etc- their old guys always return and stay connected.

No, I have NO idea how you do that. Just putting it out there.
Medic, It pains me but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I THINK this has been recognized by the athletic staff, I hope we will do more to ensure this happens. In addition, there are many more alums that may not have made it to the "big time", but have very impotant contacts and lots of money.
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#96037
Honestly we're all saying the same thing. I'm not asking for any of these guys to be our AD and I'm even OK with not being head coach's but we need to start treating them with more respect and getting them involved more. If we can afford to pay a coach 3 times what our previous coach made then we should be able to pay an adviser or the amount it'll take to bring one of them in as an assistant.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#96039
What if the head coach doesn't want them as an adviser or assistant?
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#96041
Then I believe they only want whats best for them and not the program or school. There are plenty of scouts, coach's, ex pro athletes that have played here at LU that he can choose from. I'm sure he's bound to get along with one of them. Sure in the perfect world who wouldnt only his best friends to come work for them, but every now and then you'll reach a point where you have to choose b/t whats best for you and whats best for the program.

I'd never force someone to take a coach. "you have to take Sid." I dont believe that'll be fair their personalities may clash, but i'd be sure to give him a list of names of those who've played here and have achieved status outside of Liberty wither it be scouting, etc.


We've had former players from Scouting Directors for professional teams to former coach's in minor league system show interest in this job.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#96042
What if Toman just says, "Look, I appreciate what you did for this school, and I appreciate what you're wanting to do. However, I have some other people in mind for assistants."

How is that looking out for himself and not the program?
By TruthSlayer11
Registration Days Posts
#96043
Simply b/c we've proved that $$$$ is not an option. Heck MR could have assembled a remarkable staff if he was given the same amount of money. You dont have a limit on your options. They arent going to say no to a former player who may make 60k but bring in 200k with his contacts.
User avatar
By JDUB
Registration Days Posts
#96044
your acting like these guys are the most qualified for the job, and that they deserve a offer. we DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE an LU alum for this job, and there are probably more qualified people available than these guys. I'm not agianst them getting the job, don't get me wrong, i think it would be great if we were able to offer the job to an alum, but we can't hire someone just because there an alum. we must hire someone who is right for the job, and believe it or not there are more people out there than these three guys
5 for 5 rule Meeting

Ohio just granted an injunction to 15 kids with mo[…]