[Baldspot]

How's this for a response?

These numbers are drawn from CFBDataWarehouse.com and are, therefore, facts; not random suppositions based on Sam cutting my tongue out for not watching the language I use.

LU Winning Percentage by coach:

• Rutigliano .558
  Rocco .545
  Cartwright .518
  Royer .500
  Dowling .466
  Hout .410
  Karcher .313

Winning seasons at LU by coach

• Rutigliano 6
  Dowling 3
  Cartwright 2
  Hout 1
  Karcher 1
  Rocco 1

Sam has 67 wins on the LU sideline to his credit. The next guy down is Dowling with 33.

Of the 4 seasons with 8 wins or more, Sam has 2 of them.

I can't speak to the facilities at the time or to the student body but I know that the people who worked with him -- at least everywhere else -- still respect him. I know that his former players love(d) him. I know that Sam was one of the first people that Jerry called to help him find a new coach after Karcher got the boot. If there's a hole here to be dug out of, it was probably originally excavated by the local redneck populace who couldn't get past that last name.

Respondez vous?

On the field - What your stats do not show Raging Tire is the state of the progam, ie Div II transition Div IA. Sam's stated goal was to take a fledgling IA team to the next level - Ques How did he do?

On the field - I remember being in the press box during a baseball game with Jerry right after a reporter from the N&A had just questioned him pretty hard on the Starks situation. Real Nice! Unfortunately there were many more similar experiences.

[flameshaw]

I have varied opinions regarding Sam's coaching era. Certainly in his defense, I think he raised most of the money for the budget back in those days and probably the reason he was brought on board. It is hard to find people, who knew him well, that don't like the guy. As already stated, he is still in the loop with Jerry and things on the mountain. Morgan did bring in the most talented players that we have ever had at LU. I am confident that Rocco will soon pass him in this area.

[Baldspot]

Look at the school's we used to beat pre-Sam like Central Florida, Youngstown State, JMU and where their programs have gone since the wonder boy from Cleveland came on board. A few Nat'l Championships, IA status etc. Sam's name did bring in some donors early on but when the program stagnated, so did the donors.

[flameshaw]

Might want to review some of the game results my friend. I am almost positive we beat CFU with Sam as coach and I know we beat App State at least once (McKnight caught a bomb to end the game), and were robbed in another game with them on a blown call on a 2 point conversion (nothing has changed on this front). I believe we beat Troy St. as well and some other pretty good teams. Sam wasn't perfect, but he wasn't horrible either.

[RagingTireFire]

On the field - What your stats do not show Raging Tire is the state of the progam, ie Div II transition Div IA.

Winning is winning. Why should there be qualifiers on that?

Sam's stated goal was to take a fledgling IA team to the next level - Ques How did he do?.

Look at the school's we used to beat pre-Sam like Central Florida, Youngstown State, JMU and where their programs have gone since the wonder boy from Cleveland came on board. A few Nat'l Championships, IA status etc. Sam's name did bring in some donors early on but when the program stagnated, so did the donors.

Answer: $. UCF is the largest school in the state of Florida and is state-supported. YSU got major funding from the DeBartolo family (yes, that DeBartolo family). JMU is also a state-supported school. We (and Sam) had precious little of that. Does anyone else remember LU nearly losing its accreditation over the amount of debt hanging over the school? LU was operating on a shoestring throughout the 1990's which makes Sam's accomplishments during that time frame all the more impressive to me.

On the field - I remember being in the press box during a baseball game with Jerry right after a reporter from the N&A had just questioned him pretty hard on the Starks situation. Real Nice! Unfortunately there were many more similar experiences.

Starks who? I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Baldspot]

Starks who? I have no idea what you're talking about.[/quote]

Raging Tire - Your admission of ignorance is accepted.

P.S. excuses for losing are just that - excuses. What we are talking about is programs moving to new levels, not whether we beat JMU is '98 or whatever.

[RagingTireFire]

Without getting into too much detail it seems as if after the first 4 years of Sam R were over, LU's performance agains't the better 1AA teams got worse and I think that his better teams were his first 4 years when Coach Houts recruits were still around and yes I do think Houts recruits were better all around. After that it seemed LU went on a roller coaster and then it went South. It seemed like Sam was an okay coach but his team's lacked overall talent and depth. I don't know if the huge debt that LU had caused recruiting cutbacks or not. I have been following the team pretty close for about 25 years now and that is my perception.

Ahh, but Steve, the argument is in the details. If you don't have details, you haven't got anything.

[Baldspot]

Without getting into too much detail it seems as if after the first 4 years of Sam R were over, LU's performance agains't the better 1AA teams got worse and I think that his better teams were his first 4 years when Coach Houts recruits were still around and yes I do think Houts recruits were better all around. After that it seemed LU went on a roller coaster and then it went South. It seemed like Sam was an okay coach but his team's lacked overall talent and depth. I don't know if the huge debt that LU had caused recruiting cutbacks or not. I have been following the team pretty close for about 25 years now and that is my perception.

Ahh, but Steve, the argument is in the details. If you don't have details, you haven't got anything.

Perhaps those who know the details would rather not put it in the public view.

To reiterate - to work "for" Sam was to love him, to work "with" Sam was a different story.

[RagingTireFire]

Starks who? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Your admission of ignorance is accepted.

P.S. excuses for losing are just that - excuses.

You have just proven yourself an unequivocal idiot. You blame Sam for the lack of the program's growth and yet he had no resources with which to make it grow. At the same time, he put up the best winning percentage in LU football history. How is that excused losing or even losing at all?!

----- I caught the edit.

What we are talking about is programs moving to new levels, not whether we beat JMU is '98 or whatever.

That's exactly what you were talking about 20 minutes ago. Need I remind?

I agree that Sam was a disaster of a coach both on and off the field. He lost games, .

And, by the way, don't play the Condescending Gray Haired A-hole to me just because I don't know who this Starks person is.

[RagingTireFire]

Without getting into too much detail it seems as if after the first 4 years of Sam R were over, LU's performance agains't the better 1AA teams got worse and I think that his better teams were his first 4 years when Coach Houts recruits were still around and yes I do think Houts recruits were better all around. After that it seemed LU went on a roller coaster and then it went South. It seemed like Sam was an okay coach but his team's lacked overall talent and depth. I don't know if the huge debt that LU had caused recruiting cutbacks or not. I have been following the team pretty close for about 25 years now and that is my perception.

Ahh, but Steve, the argument is in the details. If you don't have details, you haven't got anything.

Perhaps those who know the details would rather not put it in the public view.

To reiterate - to work "for" Sam was to love him, to work "with" Sam was a different story.

But we'll apparently allude to them without any hesitation. So...rumor and innuendo, it is.

[Baldspot]

Starks who? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Your admission of ignorance is accepted.

P.S. excuses for losing are just that - excuses.

You have just proven yourself an unequivocal idiot. You blame Sam for the lack of the program's growth and yet he had no resources with which to make it grow. At the same time, he put up the best winning percentage in LU football history. How is that excused losing or even losing at all?!

And don't play the Condescending Gray Haired A-hole to me just because I don't know who this Starks person is.

Look at my name - I don't have any hair. I think there has been a sufficient amount of detail posted but nontheless, sorry to get you so excited, I trully enjoyed the banter, though and hope you did too.
I'm grabbing my cane and going home now to see the grandkids now.

[RagingTireFire]

Yeah. That was fun.


I love this board!

[jvegas14]

Some, and I'm not saying who, on this board haven't a clue what all went on with LU back in the 90's, football wise or the entire University. He said, she said, working at LU or working for someone that worked under or for someone still doesn't qualify as being in the know.

I was/am in the know and I can tell you this - not everything you saw happen during Coach Sam's tenure was all his fault or even remotely close. His hands were severely tied behind his back in more ways than you can imagine. So, yes, Coach Sam's best years were with "Morgan Hout's players," but if you knew all of the circumstances, you'd surely understand why.

FYI - Eric Green was one of Hout's players. I can guarantee you Big Sy wouldn't have been a first-round pick had he played his senior year under Hout. Not a knock on Hout. Sam didn't get to the level he got (NFL Coach of the Year) because he was an average 1-AA coach

One final note - the recruiting during Hout's tenure was, in my opinion, FAR superior to what Coach Sam had and that had nothing to do with Hout or Rutigliano. I don't know about now, but Hout had the personality of a piece of firewood - not on fire, either. Coach Sam, on the other hand, was very personable and could sell ice to an eskimo. Coach Hout's teams had all of that talent because of his incredible assistant's, not himself. Contrast that during Coach Sam's tenure - he had Pete Sundheim doing most of the recruiting coordinating. Need I say more?

[Cider Jim]

FYI - Eric Green was one of Hout's players.

Correction--Eric Green was originally one of Jeff Myer's players; Eric came here from Savanna to play basketball for LU. He and Pervis Ellison were on the same team in high school, and Eric was the MVP (in basketball) in a high school tournament over Ellison. But for some reason Eric and JM didn't get along, so he switched over to football.

[bucksweepjax]

Cider...I work with Eric's high school coach. I never heard him mention Pervis Ellison, but Derek Miller (Kentucky) and Derek Williams (Liberty) were on that team. Eric had a cousin that was the best athlete of them all.

[Cider Jim]

Buck, Eric told me that story himself, but it's been so long ago that I may have my facts mixed up: maybe Eric and Ellison played in the same tournament, but on different teams. In any event, I'm sure that Eric was the MVP of the basketball tournament that Ellison played in as well.

If you work with Eric's old coach, you should ask him about Eric's basketball prowess in high school; if my memory is right, I don't even think Eric played football his senior year of high school but was a basketball star instead.

[bucksweepjax]

We talk about it all the time...He says that Sy basically just outgrew basketball.

[jvegas14]

I think Eric made the correct career choice.

[bucksweepjax]

Yeah, no doubt about that...back to the original topic, Eric will tell you there was no way he would have been a 1st rounder had Sam not been there, and he likes Coach Hout, just very different offenses.

[bigsmooth]

that loss was the worst i have ever seen! i will say that DSU's band was rockin the house. they told us to ask us to play any song and we woudl name something and they played it...freakin fantatsic.

[jvegas14]

Smoothie, you need to see the FAMU band sometime. WOW!

[Stevev]

I think that Southern U has the best band. They played in the Bayou Classic vs Grambling.

[ATrain]

I think we need to get some of the HBCU schools on our schedule and invite their bands...our students would LOVE it.

[SuperJon]

Or we could win against the teams that are on our schedule now. I bet our students would LOVE that too.

[Sly Fox]

As someone who watches all of the SWAC bands in person on a very regular basis, the Ocean of Soul at Texas Southern is the best with Southern & Grambling not far behind. But there is no such things as a mediocre SWAC band.