- February 18th, 2006, 7:56 pm
#4785
All of you are up in arms at my "attacks". That is precisely why I gave you all the definition of a "rant" which I was accused of in my first post. A rant by definition speaks to a violent, angry disposition. I took offense to this name calling because I gave attempted to give an objective opinion of our current state as I see it. Again...these are my opinions: if you disagree that's fine, but I can go sermon for sermon with you if you want to go crazy with the plank-eye stuff. Some of you who are more objective realized the intent which was to question whether moral character and God's blessing in atletics could be linked at a place like Liberty.
Tally is mostly wrong: for those of you that care for a rebuttal here it is.
I tried to underline all of the quotes from "guest"
Rant: To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.
Good job. You can use dictionary.com
This is a classic case of the ‘straw-man’ argument. My point wasn’t to discuss the definition (which as noted above is pretty silly). My point is that I wonder if the game had ended in LU’s favor would you have still felt so spiritually obligated to take time and discuss the spiritual climate of our student athletes? Yes. I question your motive and integrity. There, I said it… I thought you would pick up on the fact that YOUR TIMING was what I called into question. I wasn’t aware you’d completely miss my point and run to dictionary.com.
You didn't understand my point so I tried to explain it above for you. Yes, I do know how to use dictionary.com, but I didn't think I needed to be so explicit in making the point that I was not ranting.
Rather than name calling, maybe Tally would like to analyze those portions he/she feels are a rant.
I’m a ‘he’, thanks. No… instead, I’ll post my reasoning for why I won’t get into the merits of your argument. I’ll also discuss why I will consistently speak up against guests who blast people behind an anonymous screen name. This has been a consistent position of mine (go look at my thread history). I believe we must stop this and make this board welcoming to anyone with diverse views but NOT for people who hide behind computer screens. These figures you attack are public and so much of what they do is in public. It’s only fair that those who attack them are held to at least the standard of having to be known for what they say.
I am criticized in my position by publicly and privately. I can evaluate and give response to both sorts of criticism. If private criticism has its merits am I glad to be accountable to those who are faceless.
I have an up close and personal look at the lives of many our our athletes...which is why I am posting as a guest.
This is why I question your willingness to post attacks of character on a public forum without giving your name. That to me is cowardly and does not display the very Christ-like attitude you want for LU. This is a classic case of plank-eye. From the words of Jesus mouth to your ears “ 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.”
By the way, I don’t enjoy calling you out in a public forum.. but unlike you I’m able to be identified. I’ve had discussions on this board with several different people where we discussed things through PM’s because they needed to be addressed privately. I suspect that since you’re so concerned with Christian character at LU, that you’d be open for Iron to sharpen Iron and you’re a strong enough believer to have someone open up scripture and ask you to calm down and see if you’re matching up. This isn’t my opinion… this is biblical.
Secondly with regard to this… Matthew 18:15-17 tells us to go PRIVATELY to our brother FIRST… then take a second brother with us if the offender doesn’t repent.
Finally take it to the whole body (the church) if there is no resolution.
This is proof texting to make your point. There are plenty of passages that counterbalance us "never being fruit inspectors". On top of that, the point is not to single out individual players on the board, it is to look at a "corporate" team and whether they as a whole are honoring or not. Maybe a player or two would like to post as a "guest" to set me straight.
SIDE NOTE: Your brother has sinned against YOU since you seem to be the one offended here and claim that these things are happening. If you’re not the one offended, then what is your deal? Pray for the players, pray for the coaches, pray for the University… This IS NOT the place for your attacks (yes that is what they are…see my next point)
Coach Dutton is the leader of this team, I am not appointed to be the coach.
IN ADDITION TO ALL OF THIS… YOU CLAIM THAT WE DON’T HAVE 3-4 Christians on the whole basketball team.
Nice misquote. I said 3-4 STRONG Christians. That means guys that are so mature that they are willing to take a stand when teammates are struggling. A moderate Christian or babe in Christ would not confront the unruly. When the girls did a camp a couple of years ago they almost all signed a bible verse next to their picture (and they weren't all John 3:16). I'd say they had a nice nucleus of strong Christians on that team. They could all be Christians for all I know, but some aren't exhibiting a strong walk.
If there's not a nucleus of at least 3-4 strong Christians on the team, it's going to be rough for these guys to have any sort of "walk" or accountability with one another.
That is a blatant attack on their faith and the character of our coach. You either must have witnessed to the whole team or you are their chaplain. Otherwise, I don’t believe you have the right to say something that ignorant in a public forum about these young men. They are atheletes but they are men for whom Jesus died FIRST. If what you say is true, how will it affect their view of Christ and his people for you to come out and say these things about them to other ‘Christians’? Think before you type!
There's a disconnect between the student body and some of the athletes.
You must not be TOO in the know. According to the recent Quality Enhancement Plan (available to the public on LU’s site)… the people who actually have looked at our school and it’s growth have said “The faculty and staff have been forced to adapt to a quickly changing environment, leaving little time to focus on the aspect of building community at the University. This has left residential students at times feeling disconnected within the University.” QEP page 13
I'm not a genius, but the above statement supports my view...a disconnect. Read it again...residential students feel disconnected within the university. I don't know if this means disconnected from faculty or from their fellow students, but it's obvious they are disconnected from student athlete groups or they would be coming to the games to "support" their friends even if the team was losing.
So we have to understand that winning isn’t the only thing our school is facing. We’re growing at an unprecedented rate without a ‘tradition’ to keep these new students plugged in. 80-90% of the students don’t know who the players are and they probably don’t care. They are there for reasons other than LU’s sports or tradition. That is a bigger issue than just Coach D. Although I would like to see more students at the games… let’s not trivialize it all and blame it on one man. The ENTIRE UNIVERSITY is looking in the mirror trying to keep students connected. It’s growing fast and one of the problems with growth is the connectivity students have with the University. ESPECIALLY since the growth mostly comes from new freshman each year and as I pointed out on other posts, the older students are moving off much sooner than ever. This leaves a huge void on campus to keep up campus spirit and pride for our programs (at least for now until the growth isn’t as fast each year). Don’t make coach D a scapegoat with your simplistic analysis. It’s not completely his fault. The women have won for a decade and they have low attendance. How many people show up at the track facility for their events? Soccer? Baseball? Hockey is getting good attendance but that is relative… they are getting a few thousand into a small space… the environment there is rockin’ compared to anything else… right now, Hockey is an event and the facility is new. More effort will be needed in years to come. Let’s not blame one man for this problem.
I'm not blaming one man. I realize some of the problem is that we are losing, but some of it is like what has happened in professional baseball. Some Fans are saying...I can't relate to that sort of person. Give me a break, things are not that complex. There were only a handful of fans when everyone was "snowed on to campus" last week. Stuck on campus with nothing to do but hang out in the dorm, make snowmen outside or go to the ball game...they chose not to go to the ballgame....there is a disconnect when the captives won't even come to the game
If you disagree that's fine, but how about some analysis rather than making this the "group hug" board.
No one is asking for hugs. In fact if you look around you will see we disagree regularly.
What we do ask for (and expect) is decency, honor and integrity. None of which you display with faceless attacks. Someone with integrity would not use this forum for the mess you are spouting… I DON’T CARE how long you’ve been around the school or how much you give. You’re not above Christ who said “They will know you are my disciples when you love one another.” John 13:34-35
Your attitude is about yourself, not about loving one another. The way you stop this madness is by identifying yourself and apologizing for speaking out of line. After that, I’d suggest you contact the coach and apologize to him. Then apologize to the players. If you really care about their spiritual growth, bring that up with the coach and then go sit down with Dean Gomes and see if there is any way you can encourage this bunch of guys in their spiritual life. If you don’t want to do any of this… do the next best thing… Keep your mouth zipped and unplug your keyboard.
I'll post for one more day and then I'm done. It's apparent that diversity is not welcome here.
---Yeah, that about sums up what I meant when I said: “I wonder if 16 more points would have
Finally, yes I would have posted if I had known more about this board even when we were on our way to our 2nd NCAA tournament bid with the men. I attended some practices and was quite displeased with the "prima donna" attitude of some of the players. I then saw some of this extend beyond the court. Everything carries over. So are you happy, I had dissatisfactions even with a championship caliber team.
And to Rocketfan...you're right on. The only reason I say I'm not too sure they were playing their hardest at the end of the Hankinson era was that they may have just been way too confused. I think that competitive fires are raging in any collegiate athlete and that the terrible disorganization on that team certainly made it look like they weren't playing very hard...but they may just have been thinking too much.
Sly...you're fair enough, but I believe I will stay anonymous. LU has a certain political climate.
Tally. I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I feel I have a useful ministry associated with LU and that there is much good being done here. To those alumni across the country, I hope you believe me. LU is an awesome place and is changing lives on a grand scale. So while I may have some current frustration with our winning and the testimony of some athletes it has no reflection on LU as a whole.
By the way...I am still waiting for some of the experts around here to tell me that LU should not be competing THIS YEAR against there BIG SOUTH opponents. Since I believe they should be...I have to ask why aren't they? This is what has brought me to the postings....does God care about basketball and does He care about the testimony of our athletes?
stopped this rant from "guest".---
It will all stop soon enough.
Question!
- By Purple Haize