[Cider Jim]

This is a special day for 2 Hall of Famers who played their whole careers for the same team: congratulations to the Orioles' Cal Ripken, Jr. and the Padres' Tony Gwynn.

[BJWilliams]

In an era where many players are called into question under the cloud of steroids, here you have two guys with careers that were above reproach. I had a chance to watch some of both of their speeches and thoroughly enjoyed both of them. Congratulations for joining an elite brotherhood.

[TDDance234]

I'm with you guys. In what has been a bad Summer for just about every sport, these two going in to the hall is a great day for baseball.

[bigsmooth]

indeed. i loved watching thse guys play.

[Knucklehead]

As a lifetime San Diego Padre fan, this is absolutely awesome. Tony Gwynn has and always will represent what real Baseball is to me. He was always an inspiration to me because he worked very hard for everything he got. Go Tony and Go Cal. The Padres put a statue of tony out in front of Petco last week. I even picked up my Tony Gwynn Wheeties box.

[kel varson]

Cal's a hall of famer but an overrated one. Not even close to the best shortstop ever, which is what you would think after last week. Not in my top 5.

Here's my top 7.

1. Honus Wagner
2. Derek Jeter-------I know he's still playing but his numbers are already HOF.
3. Ernie Banks
4. Robbin Yount
5. Arky Vaughn
6. Joe Cronin
7. Cal Ripken

[SuperJon]

Jeter isn't even the best shortstop on his team.

[Cider Jim]

Jeter isn't even the best shortstop on his team.

Super, that's the best quote I've read all summer.

If you haven't seen a video of Cal's HOF induction speech, you can access it here:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/ripken/

[Fumblerooskies]

I love the story about the 10 year-old he's instructing.

[Cider Jim]

Fumble, that story shows Cal's humility, and the rose shows Cal's love for his wife and family. My only regret is that Cal Sr. didn't live to see this day.

[BJWilliams]

I thought that moment with the white rose was kind of cool. How he put it in his coat and his son then took it out of his and gave it to his mom, a cute bit of sleight of hand for the speech (and I figured out how they made that work btw)

[kel varson]

Jeter isn't even the best shortstop on his team.

That's true. Arod would be the best shortstop ever. Jeter's going to have close to 3,000 hits by the time he's 36 or 37 years old. Impressive to say the least.

[SuperJon]

Defensively Jeter isn't that great. He makes some great plays, don't get me wrong, but people don't consider Jeter a great defensive shortstop. He can hit the ball though.

[bbrothers224]

Wow and double wow! My wife and I were up in Cooperstown, NY (http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/index.jsp) from July26-July30...and being the die hard Oriole fan that I am (since I was 8 in 1968)...these last few days have been baseball heaven for me. We did a bit of sight seeing while we were up there, but the theme was baseball...and when my wife was all "baseballed out"...she would stay in our room and I would drive into town and walk the streets and visit the baseball shops (and there are many of them). My wife had a co-worker who was also up there with his brother and we hung out with them and as they were members of the hall of fame....we were able to get some pretty neat stuff. When my wife would stay behind...we would tend to hang out at Cooleys (http://www.cooleystavern.com/)....I do have a fondness for all things Irish. I took about 3 rolls with my trusty old Canon SLR and maybe 45 with my digital Canon. There are a few stories to tell, so let me know if you're interested. You need to experience this at least once if you call yourself a baseball fan.
This was so much funI felt like I was 12 again. Shocked

[Sly Fox]

Don't even get Cider Jim started about the town's other claim to fame besides baseball.

I admit to a bit of envy, bbrothers.

[Cider Jim]

When I go to Cooperstown, I always make 5 stops before going to the Hall of Fame:

1. James Fenimore Cooper's grave
2. Christ Church, where Cooper is buried
3. Fenimore Museum
4. Cooper's statue, just to the left of the HOF
5. Lake Otsego, aka Glimmerglass Lake in Cooper's novels, including Council Rock

But now that Cal is in the HOF fame, he joins several other Orioles--Eddie Murray, Jim Palmer, Earl Weaver, Frank Robinson, and Reggie Jackson (he played ONE year for us).

[TDDance234]

I have to differ with you on Jeter--defensively, he's one of the better ones in the game. He makes a lot of plays up the middle that a lot of SS's couldn't touch.

[SuperJon]

He may get to a lot of balls other guys don't, but he's not that consistent.

He has the most errors of shortstops in the AL East, and is 9th out of 14 in errors in the American League.

He'll make a great play diving into the stands, or doing his trademark jump throw, but there's he's nowhere near a great defensive shortstop.

Put the guy at 2nd base and he'd be amazing.

[SuperJon]

Jeter's stats over the last five years, in what I consider the top three categories (errors, fielding percentage, zone rating):

16th in errors.
15th in fielding percentage
24th in zone rating

9th in errors
10th in fielding percentage
21st in zone rating

13th in errors
9th in fielding percentage
16th in zone rating

9th in errors
9th in fielding percentage
11th in zone rating

7th in errors
20th in fielding percentage
22nd in zone rating (dead last that year)

(Zone rating is the percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.)

[TDDance234]

I did look-up some stats--you're right. Statsically, he's mediocre with the glove--I think I get blinded by the "wow" plays that he makes.

[SuperJon]

Most people do. He makes the wow plays (diving into the stands, the Jeremy Giambi play, etc) and people don't look at the other games.

[bbrothers224]

When I go to Cooperstown, I always make 5 stops before going to the Hall of Fame:

1. James Fenimore Cooper's grave
2. Christ Church, where Cooper is buried
3. Fenimore Museum
4. Cooper's statue, just to the left of the HOF
5. Lake Otsego, aka Glimmerglass Lake in Cooper's novels, including Council Rock

But now that Cal is in the HOF fame, he joins several other Orioles--Eddie Murray, Jim Palmer, Earl Weaver, Frank Robinson, and Reggie Jackson (he played ONE year for us).

Funny you didn't mention another place...considering your handle. I'm talking about The Fly Creek Cider Mill.
They have some amzing hard cider there...among many other tasty things.[/url]

[olldflame]

ESPN2 is showing a lengthy panel discussion right now with Gwynn, Ripkin and a couple of their baseball analysts. Man, Tony has really let himself go!

[bbrothers224]

That was from Monday July 30. We had a long drive in front of us, so we didn't stay to see it...we also didn't have tickets for that event either. We left around 9:30am and pulled in front of our house around 7pm.

[kel varson]

Defense is important but you can't tell me you'd rather have Ozzie Smith or Omar Visquel than Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter would be one of the all time greats at any position. And like you said, he's not a bad shortstop defenesively, just average.