[NJLibertyboy]

And SuperJon, you are my hero. Your fact finding skills are exquisite.

[SuperJon]

The more I read, the more I think it may be the JuCo thing that they exploited and used to their advantage. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how they did it. I've asked on AGS and I'm waiting for an answer.

[Sly Fox]

I took this from the thread on AGS that SJ has been referencing ... it lists the schools that stepped up from I-AA since 1992:

1992
Arkansas State – Sun Belt
Nevada - WAC

1994
Louisiana-Monroe – Sun Belt

1995
North Texas – Sun Belt

1996
Boise State - WAC
Central Florida – C-USA

1997
Alabama-Birmingham – C-USA
Idaho – WAC

1998
Marshall – C-USA

1999
Buffalo - MAC
Middle Tennessee State – Sun Belt

2001
South Florida – Big East

2002
Connecticut – Big East
Troy – Sun Belt

2006
Florida Atlantic – Sun Belt
Florida International – Sun Belt

Obviously some of those schools have been a complete disaster at the next level (Buffalo, Idaho and La-Monroe) while some have been extremely successful (Boise State, Marshall and Troy). Obviously we would be distinguishing ourselves as a private making the jump. But just look at the success level of schools like Florida Atlantic & Florida International right now in the recruiting game. Its not because of their rich tradition ... its because they can sell the I-A/FBS experience to kids and they are located in talent-rich Florida. Our location isn't our calling card but just being able to tell a kid he could play I-A football for you has its great advantages. Obviously it takes more than just that sales pitch if you are in a dump ... just ask Arkansas State, Buffalo and Louisiana-Monroe (and the hinterlands of Idaho to a certain extent even though it is beautiful country up there). And you can't discount our greatest strength and weakness which is the same thing ... being distinctively Christian.

[SuperJon]

Dr. Cider, from everything I can gather (and I'm still waiting on a response from Dave Coulson), Marshall did a few things:

A) They were supplying (and it was well known in the admin part of the University not just the Athletic part) jobs to the athletes.
B) They were handing out exams ahead of time for study purposes.
C) They were stockpiling scholarships. They gave the I-A amount of scholarships, even though they only suited up the I-AA amount. Some of these scholarships may have been guys at the JuCo.


Once Mr. C replies to me I should have a better idea exactly what went on.

[LUconn]

That sounds like a lot of unsubstantiated sour grapes.

[SuperJon]

Yea, they were sanctioned for sour grapes.

[LUconn]

http://www.ncaa.org/releases/infraction ... 2101in.htm

huh, how about that. I was always under the impression that they took advantage of a scholly loophole that they've since fixed. But it looks like they just cheated.

[SuperJon]

I was about to post that exact same link.


I was always under the impression they took advantage of something not many people knew about because that's what I had read. I'd never taken the time to read the actual sanctions. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I guess they did just cheat.

[paradox]

I think that we should make the move to 1A as soon as a favorable opportunity comes along. Personally, I'd like to see LU move into the MAC. The eastern half of the mid-west would be a great fit as we'd be able to successfully recruit both nationally and in the MAC region--which is a geographical area that we can do well in, recruiting-wise.

It would be fun. We would have a chance to play on ESPN in the Orville Reddenbacher Bowl against Texas Christian or in the Don Ho Bowl against the U of Hawaii. Seriously though, it would be fun and a heck of alot more interesting than competing for a playoff spot with Coastal.

If we go 1A, then UVA and VA Tech would gladly schedule us, which would benefit both institutions.

[JDUB]

I think that we can move up like jon said after we get to app st level. if we are competing with coastal for a spot every year, were gonna get embarrassed when we move up. once we can consistently win the big south, and we have expanded the crowd to the right size, then we can think about moving up to IA

[PAmedic]

I agree with Eagle Ed and DOX

[paradox]

I don't think that we need to win a big 1-AA game in order make the move toward 1-A.

We can really make the move at any time and then build and grow in it. Even the early process would be far more interesting than what we're doing now.

Also, keep in mind, with a move to 1-A, we gain recruits and opportunities that are not within our grasp right now.

[Sly Fox]

There seems to be a correlation between the age sof posters and how much time we should spend making the move up. Perhaps us Old Hags want the move to happen while we still can move ourselves.

[PAmedic]

[SuperJon]

Perhaps the old hags are the ones that give the rest of the country the perception that Liberty fans have unrealistic ideas about what their team really is.

[SuperJon]

Dox, did you really say you wanted to go to the MAC? The MAC is the worst conference in the country not named the Sun Belt, and they're barely beating the Sun Belt.

[Sly Fox]

So let me get this straight, we shouldn't go I-A because we'll get our brains beaten in. But we shouldn't go to the MAC because they aren't that much stronger than a FCS league. Am I getting this correct?

[SuperJon]

We shouldn't go to the MAC because there's no point, and we'll get our brains beaten in. MAC schools have to play road games against the top BCS programs just to fund their program. Then they come to the MAC, hope they can win a few games, and then go to some piece of crap bowl game that no one watches, and that you barely make any money off of unless you sell out your allotment of tickets (which is generally in the range of 15-20k). If you're going to do it, have something set up to where it works. UConn did that. The schools that went into Conference USA did that. Going to the MAC or Sun Belt is just stupid.

[JDUB]

Even the early process would be far more interesting than what we're doing now.

i must be reading you wrong, b/c the way i understand that is that our football program isn't interesting. let me tell you what wouldnt be interesting. us in I-A gettin our butts handed to us every game.

I just don't understand how you think we can compete in I-A untill were competing in I-AA. so what if we get slightly better recruits? we'll be playing MUCH harder opponents

[SuperJon]

Dox, go watch App St on Black Saturday. Go to a Georgia Southern game. Watch Montana on tv.

Do all that then tell me I-AA isn't exciting.

[Sly Fox]

H edidn't say I-AA wasn't exciting. Just not as exciting as playing the majors. Its an opinion that I also share ... and I'm a big fan of FCS football. Tell me the Wake game didn't get your juices flowing.

[JDUB]

ever go to a Duke game? thats what we will be like if we move up too soon, and there is nothing exciting about it

[SuperJon]

H edidn't say I-AA wasn't exciting. Just not as exciting as playing the majors. Its an opinion that I also share ... and I'm a big fan of FCS football. Tell me the Wake game didn't get your juices flowing.

The Wake game didn't get my juices flowing, and I was there.


The atmosphere at App is far superior to the atmosphere at Wake. The atmosphere at SC State is better than Wake. The atmosphere at VMI is better. The game I saw on tv at Montana looked a lot more exciting than Wake.

[Sly Fox]

Perhaps Wake wasn't the best comparison. You Carolinians seem fixated on hoops (especially on Tobacco Road).

I attend both FBS & FCS every weekend in the fall and have for two decades. There are lousy FBS atmospheres just like there are terrible FCS atmospheres (Savanah State anyone?).

[SuperJon]

There are REALLY good I-AA atmospheres too. To say that I-AA can't be as exciting as I-A is asinine. Most of you guys just have I-A envy because that's all you know. You've never been around good I-AA football.