[whmatthews]

Two nights ago four guys on my dorm were caught jumping out of a window at 1:30. Last night and pretty much all day today I've had to listen to these kids complain about Liberty's rules. They each got over 20 reps each (for other stuff also). My opinion is they don't have the right to complain. So many people here break the rules and then cry about how much they hate the rules and how unfair they are. None of these kids were forced to come here, and most of them should be kicked out. Of course Liberty won't kick them out, because they think if they're here at Liberty, they'll find the Lord. These kids know the Lord, they know the rules, they continue to break them. Two of the four were caught earlier this year drinking and with girls in their room topless. NOT KICKED OUT!!! How does that happen??? All the got were fines from the reps and community service, which they didn't even complete and nothing was done about it! This ticks me off. Stop whining about the rules and leave.

[Libertine]

NOT KICKED OUT!!! How does that happen???

Ministering to students is part of the LU mission. Especially since the whole discipline system has been moved to being under Duane Carson's perview, you have to be either utterly incorrigible or dragging other people down with you to get kicked out. If someone ends up expelled from the school, it means that the school has completely given up on them. Given that, people are going to get their chances to shape up, particularly this close to finals.

[TallyW]

Wow... Nude girls in the dorms isn't exactly something I'd think LU would think of as guys who need ministry... I'd lean with WH here... We can't allow an attitude of ignorance sweep the campus... while I know many students push against the system (in every generation)... you can't set an example to the student body that LU puts up with garbage like this...

I recall in 1997 being pulled out of the dorms and down to the Shilling center when a sexual assault was alleged... you know how you keep those incidents to a minimum? Enforce the rules... and if a girl is nude in a dudes room, kick them both out. We're devaluing our school when we let kids thumb their nose at the institution. If you don't like the policies, leave. Especially with how many policies have changed already. We're down to some basics at this point.

[El Scorcho]

I see both sides and think you have to take it on a case by case basis. You look at the individual, find out where they're at, etc. However, I also don't have much sympathy for people who want Liberty to change. There are HUNDREDS of places that are not like Liberty. If you want to be at a place where you can do those kind of things, then please go. Why the hang up on trying to change LU? I don't get it.

[whmatthews]

This is not a case in which kids need to be ministered to. That point of view is a slap on the wrist, and doesn't change anything in most of the cases I've observed. Some people will say anything when they're in trouble just to get out of it. It doesn't change anything. If these kids aren't being kicked out with the blantant things they do, something needs to be done about Dwayne. There aren't any excuses for the things they've done and continue to do, and Liberty keeps saying "Oh we must minister to them." Liberty has a standard to uphold and this place is becoming a joke with discipline.

[SuperJon]

Yet they're giving kids who don't do anything insane punishments and putting them in a financial burden for something they didn't do.

It's great how they pick and choose.

[TallyW]

To be fair I'm not sure if there is a "they". Unfortunately it seems that too much is left to the RA's and the pipeline is clogged with the stupid appeals (meaning the kids shouldn't have to get the fines in the first place) so that the bigger ones get backlogged. For instance... a haircode violation vs. a nude girl in your room... hmmm which one should make it to the Dean's office first?

I've heard a lot about the new student court system. The stats are coming back that the punishments will tend to be more harsh for serious violators and more rational with the small stuff. Students will likely push through a lot more cases and crack down better than the few in the Dean's offices. It's not a knock on them.. they each try to work with thousands of students... by letting the student court handle most of these you will find that the RD's and Deans offices will get to truly minister to the ones that need it most. They'll also get to know the trouble kids better and make those determinations that El Scorcho mentions...

Does anyone know an expected 'launch date' of this program?

[jmdickens]

To be fair I'm not sure if there is a "they"

There is, and I have been punished for several things that I should not have been punished, but was anyways. How about getting reps for dragging someone away from a bar so they wouldn't drive home drunk, and then get accused by "student leadership" that you catch there.... Then turn around and I got accused of being around a party....It is where I work!!!!!

Those are things that are messed up about the rules

[Fumblerooskies]

Let's put things in perspective, here. On "all things Liberty," follow the money. If the rules are overly enforced...if people are routinely booted...there will be a decrease in student retention. Word will get out...and it will become tougher to attract students to The Mountain...and almost impossible to get to the 25K goal. Thus...the MINISTRY aspect of the school's mission. I agree with it...minister to the students...try to lead them to not only being saved, to follow Christ's example. Don't simply resort to remedial punishments...try to change the behavior.

[SuperJon]

Fumble, let me rephrase it for you:


They kick kids out they lose money. They're not going to lose money.

[RubberMallet]

wait,...how do you get caught sneaking out a window.....losers

[jcmanson]

So basically in order for us to get to 25k we're going to let kids be kids?!

[Libertine]

This thread is going nowhere.

[4everfsu]

Sorry drinking and with nude girls in dorm room, see you.

[LUconn]

These sounds like some real classy girls. Hey, I'd like a drink. But I think I'll take it with my shirt off.

[RubberMallet]

we could barely get them to stand by our window let alone come in and take their clothes off....

[RubberMallet]

plus we both married moral girls....what were we thinking....i can't even get her to drink and take her shirt off NOW

[HenryGale]

plus we both married moral girls....what were we thinking....i can't even get her to drink and take her shirt off NOW

Mallet...that just comes with the word "married"

[Fumblerooskies]

plus we both married moral girls....what were we thinking....i can't even get her to drink and take her shirt off NOW

Mallet...that just comes with the word "married"

What he said....

[El Scorcho]

Losers.

[jcmanson]

plus we both married moral girls....what were we thinking....i can't even get her to drink and take her shirt off NOW

Mallet...that just comes with the word "married"

What he said....

Don't get me started

[whmatthews]

They kick kids out they lose money. They're not going to lose money.

I think it's retarded, but of course they're not going to get rid of that money. Is money really that big of a problem that we can't just kick some people out because they can get money out of them? I don't know how many times I've sat through a class or convo and heard about how bad the university was financially a few years ago and how did they get money??? Not by reprimanding people to death, because back then Liberty still stuck to its standards. They relied on GOD and they prayed for the money. If they need the money that bad now, rely on God to do it and stop fining people when they clearly need to be kicked out.

[Fumblerooskies]

You don't win souls or build Champions for Christ by booting them...
...you love them. Again, correct the behavior, but love the student.

[El Scorcho]

We've heard testimony on this very board from people who probably should have been kicked out for similar stunts back in their day, but later in their time at LU got their relationship with God straightened out and went on to do great things for Him.

"The only army that shoots their wounded."

Ever heard that one before?

[SuperJon]

By that theory, this school will have students breaking worse and worse rules. I don't have to worry about getting kicked out of school because they'll love me and help me.


Sometimes the best way to love someone is to take what they want most away from them.