This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#634081
paradox wrote: October 26th, 2021, 8:12 pm So, you believe there's an official deliberate conspiracy against women reporting claims? But you and I don't really know anything regarding the validity of the claims. Maybe, we'll know later. TBD.
A deliberate conspiracy? No. A deliberate indifference to it in the name of keeping up some kind of image? Absolutely. I have seen it with my own two eyes.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#634082
What have you seen with your own eyes? Again, this is a very specific class action claim. It could go either way. No need to get emotionally invested when it's TBD. Let's keep our cool.
By jimflamesfan
Registration Days Posts
#634085
One thing that's in LU"s favor...the media will hold LU to a higher standard than other schools, and that's a good thing! When I went to Pitt...after freshman orientation one of the deans asked all the guys to stay back. He then spoke to the us alone and basically said, these are the areas near the campus where you could have sex and not get caught...and reminding us that there was a highschool across the street so make sure if your having sex dont get caught in case she's under age. All they guys were told that at orientation...and everyone nodded in understandimg. We had a biology professor that took one class to explain why he though guys must look at women's breasts at least once daily. That's at a secular school. No one's going to hold Pitt accountable. One of my friends almost died of alcohol poisoning in a frat house thing. I have more horror stories... Bad stuff happens with college students on their own for the first tjme. This is not jist a LU thing. However. Because we call ourselves Christians at LU...we are held to a higher standard. And that's a good thing. I havent read all the articles completely...but what I take is the problem is a girl gets raped and she goes to her RA...and the RA is basically saying...if you go forward with the rape story you may het kickdd out of school for being drunk. And this is happening to multiple girls because that's the way the system is set up. That's a problem. At least the light is being directed at the problem. What can be done to address it? Train RA's and SLDs that sexual assaults must be reported to the police. How about changing the alcohol rules? Keep it the way it is for on campus...basically if you get caught you can be expelled. Change it to something like 1 or two demerits off campus. Make it so that admitting to drinking at an offcampus party doesnt automatically expell you unless you've made it a major habit. That's just an idea. And I don't drink. As far as the president situation...they should hire some who is a Christian with an academic background that doesnt have any ties to the current or former administration. I mean this needs to happen soon. Just mg opinion. Sports related...maybe it's good we are still independent. Maybe that will also put some pressure on the administration to get this stuff cleaned up. I mean it's tragic and should be addressed regardless. But whatever it takes for us to get better as a school. I love LU and want LU to get better.
By Yacht Rock
Posts
#634086
paradox wrote:What have you seen with your own eyes? Again, this is a very specific class action claim. It could go either way. No need to get emotionally invested when it's YTD. Let's keep our cool.
Just because there are two sides of a story doesn’t mean that each side has equal chances of being true.

This isn’t Schrodenger’s cat.

Maybe from your perspective, you haven’t seen enough to give weight to the claims one way or another.

Some of us have.

Either way, it’s perfectly fair for anyone to say, “Based on what we’ve heard so far, I believe…”

If you want to remain completely neutral, you have that right.

Liberty has lost the benefit of the doubt for me though, so I put more weight in the statements from the Jane Does. Their experience also lines up with what I’ve seen and experienced. Liberty’s statement doesn’t line up with what I’ve seen and experienced.

Choosing to believe the stories told via the Jane Does isn’t an emotional one. I know for many, it’s based on observation and experience with Liberty admin.
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By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#634089
Yacht Rock wrote: October 26th, 2021, 11:08 pm
paradox wrote:What have you seen with your own eyes? Again, this is a very specific class action claim. It could go either way. No need to get emotionally invested when it's YTD. Let's keep our cool.


Either way, it’s perfectly fair for anyone to say, “Based on what we’ve heard so far, I believe…”


Agreed. It's completely fair to lean in one direction or another. And subjectivity is often the only option. So, no objections there. However, many here are getting too emotionally invested. Why? Just let it be until the time comes.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#634092
paradox wrote:What have you seen with your own eyes? Again, this is a very specific class action claim. It could go either way. No need to get emotionally invested when it's TBD. Let's keep our cool.
I've already explained the story of a friend of mine from my freshmen year. I haven't gone into details out of respect for her but her story is very similar to those of many of the Jane Doe's. I saw how LU handled that and lead to a nearly tragic ending. I convinced myself that LU was trying their best because I was naive. Nearly 20 years later it is pretty clear it was a much bigger problem then I realized.

So that is why I am so emotionally invested but I'd argue we should all be emotionally invested. We shouldn't think the way these cases were handled is ok. There is a enough email traffic, photos and other evidence that proves this isn't just someone crying wolf.
ATrain liked this
#634094
Can someone explain to me why Christian organizations are so bad at handling sexual misconduct? I’ve had to report two Title IX cases at two different public universities, because the students came to me, and they were both handled. One resulted in the university protecting the student from another student and the other resulted in a faculty member being let go. Immediate action was taken in both instances. On the other hand, Christian organizations seem to cover up first and then hope for the best. Do I just pay more attention to Christian groups or is this a real issue?
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#634096
I think there’s at least a couple of dynamics that have made Christian institutions bad at handling this stuff:

1. Victim blaming under the guise of “personal responsibility.” Just look at this thread- “well, if she hadn’t been at an off-campus party, if she hadn’t been drinking, if she hadn’t been breaking the Liberty Way, etc.” it’s not usually explicitly said, but the implication is that if you break the rules, you at least somewhat deserve what happens to you.

2. Another dynamic that has been made clear through the SBC nonsense this year which I think applies here as well is institutional idolatry. We protect our institutions over the people they are supposed to serve. It usually comes out in the form of “yeah, but look at the good they do!” If we’ve decided that LU is sanctified by God as an institution, we are a) quick to dismiss claims against it as untrue and b) quick to hide even obviously true things because it will “hurt the mission.” That’s why it’s so important for a guy like Dean Inserra to speak up at the SBC executive committee meeting and ask “what is a little girl worth?” God does not need the SBC and God does not need Liberty. We are to protect His children over the man-made institutions.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#634097
These are valid points. I'd like to think that deep down, most want to see justice. Sadly though, there are always heartless fools in high places who are corrupted by power. And it exists everywhere, unfortunately. It's the world we live in.

As far as the Jane Doe's go, we are on the outside looking in. Like it or not, that's the position we're in. But we should all be charitable and understanding nonetheless.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#634100
Coming back to add more thoughts on #1 and the influence of “purity culture.”

I’m right smack in the middle of the purity culture cohort, I signed a True Love Waits card, had the cassette compilation featuring two DC Talk songs (bonus points if you can guess which ones), so I am pretty well-versed in purity culture and the current backlash.

The message that we received from purity culture was that boys are so driven by their sexuality that it’s basically impossible for them to restrain themselves when faced with temptation and, therefore, it’s the girls’ job to ensure that boys stay pure. This means dressing super modestly, rules around dating, rules around platonic interaction, all built around restraining the boys’ sexual appetite.

One of the second-order effects of this type of thinking is diminishing the responsibility of boys who act out and blaming the girls who they acted out upon. It’s in the complaints from the Jane Does- administrators asking “well, what were you wearing?” It’s not his fault if you tempted him by showing cleavage or acting flirty. If someone attacks you, it’s because you didn’t do your job to restrain his sexual appetites.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#634101
thepostman wrote: October 27th, 2021, 6:23 am
paradox wrote:What have you seen with your own eyes? Again, this is a very specific class action claim. It could go either way. No need to get emotionally invested when it's TBD. Let's keep our cool.
I've already explained the story of a friend of mine from my freshmen year. I haven't gone into details out of respect for her but her story is very similar to those of many of the Jane Doe's. I saw how LU handled that and lead to a nearly tragic ending. I convinced myself that LU was trying their best because I was naive. Nearly 20 years later it is pretty clear it was a much bigger problem then I realized.

So that is why I am so emotionally invested but I'd argue we should all be emotionally invested. We shouldn't think the way these cases were handled is ok. There is a enough email traffic, photos and other evidence that proves this isn't just someone crying wolf.
Looking back on the legalism days, you can see how it gets in people's heads. Lot's of paranoia as a result. Drama as well. To me, Moby Dick will always be an existential classic. But I don't think I ever really fully understood it until I was exposed to legalists and hyper-calvinists. Melville was fighting against God, but there was all this baggage that distorted his vision.

We all have perceptions of things. They may be real or imagined. These jerks do exist. We've seen them up close. But, we should still pursue it with an open mind. I believe Shannon Bream is doing that. So, that's got my attention.
#634114
The experiences detailed in the Pro Publica story are extremely similar to what happened to my friend in the fall of 2005. It is also why, for those who know what happened to these Jane Does, other victims stay silent during their time at LU, and for long afterwards.
thepostman liked this
#634119
ATrain wrote: October 27th, 2021, 12:09 pm The experiences detailed in the Pro Publica story are extremely similar to what happened to my friend in the fall of 2005. It is also why, for those who know what happened to these Jane Does, other victims stay silent during their time at LU, and for long afterwards.
Same here with my friend in 2003. I was so naive then and kick myself quite often for not doing more on her behalf at the time.
ATrain liked this
#634148
Not ignoring the Jane Doe's because they are the main story but reading the article, the interviewer asked Lamb some tough questions and he came off like a total piece of...nope, we don't have that emoji.

“Former and current employees have called you a bully,” ABC13’s Cynthia Beasley asked Lamb in an interview. “They say you used intimidation to the point where some people say they felt threatened. What do you think of that now that you’re in this position?”

“Most of my career at LU was spent talking to executives and my boss” Lamb responded. “I tried my best to be, you know, non-bristly, non-bully. God makes us the way we are. I think if I’ve been bristly with people, I don’t excuse myself on that level at all and I would own up to it.”
And this:

“As you’re addressing alumni, you’re getting pushback,” ABC13’s Cynthia Beasley asked Lamb in an interview. “It’s coming at a time where you say you were seeing all of these morally corrupt things and you never said anything, so you’re saying it now. Some people would say that makes you an opportunist and you’re trying to control your narrative.

“So there's two ways of looking at it,” Lamb said. “Either I’m coming out now because I was fired, and there's some sort of revenge. Or, I was fired because I was coming out internally.”

Lamb said he wants his actions to speak louder than his words. He said if he was aware of illegal activity, he would have come forward earlier.
Please....
#634159
flamehunter wrote: October 27th, 2021, 8:13 pm Makes it easy to dismiss the plaintiffs claims if they ain't got the right lawyer. Am I right?
These cases are pretty old. My first question would be, did the law firm reach out to the plaintiffs first? What type cases have they been involved in over the years. I haven't looked it up, but if I did that's where are would start. Gloria Allred types are more about personal fame and fortune than than truth if you ask me. That may not be the case here, like I said I haven't researched it.
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