This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#632447
Purple, a personal friend who is a local ER doctor advised us that if our oxygen level dropped below 90, we needed to take an ambulance to the hospital and get a chest x-ray. I trust his medical knowledge more than mine. I'm grateful for the advice I received and the medical treatment that I got in the COVID unit at Lynchburg General.

And since I entered the hospital 3 weeks ago today, I've had 2 dear friends a decade or two older than I am DIE of Covid.
Last edited by Cider Jim on September 30th, 2021, 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#632451
Cider Jim wrote: September 26th, 2021, 9:53 pm Purple, a personal friend who is a local ER doctor advised us that if our oxygen level dropped below 90, we needed to take an ambulance to the hospital and get a chest x-ray. I trust his medical knowledge more than mine (and even yours). I'm grateful for the advice I received and the medical treatment that I got in the COVID until at Lynchburg General.

And since I entered the hospital 3 weeks ago today, I've had 2 dear friends a decade or two older than I am DIE of Covid.
I’m sorry to hear about your friends.
My medical knowledge here is that you survived. As have Millions of others. Not sure what your point of contention is
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#632455
Watched a very interesting segment on FoxNation titled "What Really Happened In Wuhan". The virus was peiced together in the lab and designed to target humans. Program covers many details, to many for me to post here. This Frankenstein may have the ability to mutate in ways we've never seen. We might be just getting started.

Our Intel agencies know more than we've being told. Segment has interviews with Pompeo, Trump and Ratcliff. Many more.
By willflop
Posts
#632459
stokesjokes wrote: September 26th, 2021, 4:45 pm Maybe not vaxable in the sense of eliminating infection risk completely, but it is effective in mitigation. The 5x reduced infection rate for vaxxed people is current, meaning it applies to current infections, which are almost exclusively delta. That number was higher pre-delta.

Now, this isn’t to say that vaccines are a magic bullet, but for now they are our best available tool. We might still be seeing high numbers because of delta, but they’d be crazy out of control if we didn’t have the vaccines.
Going back to your 5x number, how does it control for asymptomatic infections among the vaxed?

I was looking at VA's numbers and they make a claim that it's 7.4x higher for unvaccinated vs. fully vaxed. https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronaviru ... on-status/, similar to your point.

But, they are just dividing the number of positives into the relevant population to get their ratio. Earlier they state that most positives don't even have symptoms among the vaxed. It seems like we are missing the key variable.

What if the vax causes a 10x reduction in symptoms, both sides seem to agree that it does do this to some factor, and therefore a 5-10x reduction in reported cases?

Edit...not to mention, there's probably a large factor of unreported symptomatic cases among the vaxed because they are more likely to treat their cold symptoms as just a cold on the grounds they were vaxed and protected.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#632460
Yeah, they’d have to do random blood serum tests to get an idea of true case counts.

Now when you get into the asymptomatic cases side, this is where terminology has confused the issue. Yes, people who do not currently have symptoms can spread the virus. However, people not currently displaying symptoms can be separated into two clusters- presymptomatic and asymptomatic. Presymptomatic meaning that person will develop symptoms later on (incubation period up to 14 days before symptoms can show), while asymptomatic means symptoms do not develop. When this differentiation is made, we see very little evidence of asymptomatic spread (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article). The problem is, a lot of the reports have not made this distinction and have lumped in presymptomatic spread with asymptomatic spread under the umbrella of asymptomatic spread.

So even if vaccines are only turning cases milder and more asymptomatic, that should have a mitigating effect on spread, not to mention the individual health benefits of having a milder case.

Also, anecdotally, I don’t think it follows that vaccinated people would underreport cases. If anything, the people who have gotten the vaccine are more conscientious and careful.
By willflop
Posts
#632463
stokesjokes wrote: September 27th, 2021, 9:01 am Yeah, they’d have to do random blood serum tests to get an idea of true case counts.

Now when you get into the asymptomatic cases side, this is where terminology has confused the issue. Yes, people who do not currently have symptoms can spread the virus. However, people not currently displaying symptoms can be separated into two clusters- presymptomatic and asymptomatic. Presymptomatic meaning that person will develop symptoms later on (incubation period up to 14 days before symptoms can show), while asymptomatic means symptoms do not develop. When this differentiation is made, we see very little evidence of asymptomatic spread (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article). The problem is, a lot of the reports have not made this distinction and have lumped in presymptomatic spread with asymptomatic spread under the umbrella of asymptomatic spread.

So even if vaccines are only turning cases milder and more asymptomatic, that should have a mitigating effect on spread, not to mention the individual health benefits of having a milder case.

Also, anecdotally, I don’t think it follows that vaccinated people would underreport cases. If anything, the people who have gotten the vaccine are more conscientious and careful.
That would be an interesting angle, but it looks like that study was based on all of 59 cases (where 13 of them were asymptomatic) from Feb-March of 2020. That seems to be a really small and early study to apply to the delta variant and asymptomatic cases that are asymptomatic because of a vax, at least in my mind. Maybe there's more data out there now, but this is why I'm no longer buying it. Every time I look at it from a purely data perspective (I admit, I haven't read a ton on this), it always seems to be a stretch or the stats are missing critical variables, sort of like the evidence for fat loss pills in an infomercial.

As far as your anecdote, I guess it's subjective. I'd say that people that get the vax are generally more likely to believe it works, that's why they got it. Someone who believes a vax works is not likely to immediately contradict that prior belief because they experience normal/mild cold symptoms. Especially early on, before there was this shift from the vax is 95% effective against the spread/inoculation of covid to it's 95% effective against serious disease and death (or whatever the % is).

This is my bird's eye view gut check: Delta is twice as contagious as the previous variant, granted. But, more than 50% of the population is vaxed. At the end of 2020, more than 1/3 of the entire country had a positive case (I couldn't find a YTD estimate for 2021 very easily, so I gave up). It's possible, but rare, to get covid twice. Add that all together and one does not land on 300% increase in new cases, Labor Day year over year, if the vax is even in the ball park of what we were hoping in terms of stopping the spread.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#632466
Yeah, there’s so much piecemeal data to sift through and it will take a lot of time and brainpower before we can be definitive about what conclusions we can draw.

And I’m with you- I am disappointed in the effectiveness of the vaccine. I was thrilled in June to basically go back to normal for a while. I can’t help but wonder what we’d be dealing with now if we had higher vax compliance back then. We may still be dealing with a surge, but it makes me wonder just how much could have been curbed. I do think the data we have now suggests it’s still the best thing we have available, even if it’s not as good as we hoped. Even if it can only put a dent in transmission, that’s better than not doing anything.
By willflop
Posts
#632467
Yea, I agree that something is better than nothing. Just hope that Dr I linked above is wrong about it being a leaky vaccine, which ends up making it worse.
User avatar
By BlueBlood
Posts
#632468
At this point, I'm viewing the vaccines solely as a tool to lessen the symptoms. Still glad I got it, but I think most folks are realizing that its not a silver bullet.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#632472
stokesjokes wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:45 am Glad you’re home recovering @Cider Jim. Hope you’re back up to full speed quickly!
Thanks, Stokes. I taught for a of couple hours last week in person, but today is beginning my first week back teaching and coaching full time after being released from the hospital exactly 2 weeks ago today (at 4:00 p.m.).

I might even try cutting my front grass after work today!
LU 57, flamehunter, stokesjokes and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#632483
A message was sent out about a vaccine drive on campus. Info below.

Liberty is hosting a COVID vaccine clinic on Tuesday Oct. 12 at Vines Center for students, faculty and staff who have not yet been vaccinated. Registrations must be in by Oct. 11. Contact the Student Health Center for more details: 434-338-7774, studenthealthrecords@liberty.edu
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#632486
Cider Jim wrote: September 27th, 2021, 1:03 pm
stokesjokes wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:45 am Glad you’re home recovering @Cider Jim. Hope you’re back up to full speed quickly!
Thanks, Stokes. I taught for a of couple hours last week in person, but today is beginning my first week back teaching and coaching full time after being released from the hospital exactly 2 weeks ago today (at 4:00 p.m.).

I might even try cutting my front grass after work today!
Glad to hear you are recovering well CJ. Do you mind saying what kind of treatments you received while in the hospital and after?
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#632498
olldflame wrote: September 27th, 2021, 4:52 pm
Glad to hear you are recovering well CJ. Do you mind saying what kind of treatments you received while in the hospital and after?
In the hospital, they gave me 4 steroid pills a day, a twice daily blood thinner shot in my stomach, a daily IV (not sure what was in it), and I used an inhaler. And lost 14 pounds in 8 days.

After the hospital, I got 4 prescriptions, but 2 of them were for aspirin and vitamin D. The other 2 were Dexamethasone and Famotidine. And I also got another inhaler.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#632509
Cider Jim wrote: September 27th, 2021, 7:38 pm
olldflame wrote: September 27th, 2021, 4:52 pm
Glad to hear you are recovering well CJ. Do you mind saying what kind of treatments you received while in the hospital and after?
In the hospital, they gave me 4 steroid pills a day, a twice daily blood thinner shot in my stomach, a daily IV (not sure what was in it), and I used an inhaler. And lost 14 pounds in 8 days.

After the hospital, I got 4 prescriptions, but 2 of them were for aspirin and vitamin D. The other 2 were Dexamethasone and Famotidine. And I also got another inhaler.
Interesting. Not one of those medications was/is intended to actually treat Covid. Vitamin D gives your immune system a boost. Everything else is to relieve symptoms or either treat or help prevent blood clotting. Did you have a clotting problem?
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#632513
At this point the virus is long gone. They’re treating the damage left behind by the virus/immune response to the virus. The immune response causes inflammation, which causes higher risk of clotting. Steroids (dexamethazone) to bring the inflammation down and settle down the immune system, aspirin for clotting risk.

Source: married to the LU Nursing pathophysiology prof 8)
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#632514
stokesjokes wrote: September 28th, 2021, 9:52 am At this point the virus is long gone. They’re treating the damage left behind by the virus/immune response to the virus. The immune response causes inflammation, which causes higher risk of clotting. Steroids (dexamethazone) to bring the inflammation down and settle down the immune system, aspirin for clotting risk.

Source: married to the LU Nursing pathophysiology prof 8)
I don’t think you are! This is an unusual-vetted source!! Not peer reviewed. :lol:
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#632570
For the record, the quarantine is over. I am aware that what I am about to post only furthers a discussion that has run its course. But since this is the active COVID discussion I will share here.

My wife & I went to dinner with one of my neighbors who is a retired immunologist in addition to be a licensed pharmacologist. He encourages getting vaccines to reduce mortality potential for middle-aged and older adults. He strongly discourages vaccines for kids. He also does not recommend boosters for anyone at all based on current info he recieves through medical journals where he used to write. Take my hearsay for what it is worth.

I have just seen too much death and misery around my family and friends to not encourage vaccinations for folks over 35. Being in ICU for my dad and seeing that nearly every bed was filled with unvaccinated older folks passing away nearly daily. I had one ICU attending physician literally shedding tears because his older loved ones refused to get vaccinated and he was seeign firsthand the impact. Every. Day. Again, just my opinion in regard to older at risk folks. I get the reservations for many completely. But as several of this board including me have experienced, this virus is brutal.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#632646
Sly Fox wrote: September 30th, 2021, 10:12 am For the record, the quarantine is over. I am aware that what I am about to post only furthers a discussion that has run its course. But since this is the active COVID discussion I will share here.

My wife & I went to dinner with one of my neighbors who is a retired immunologist in addition to be a licensed pharmacologist. He encourages getting vaccines to reduce mortality potential for middle-aged and older adults. He strongly discourages vaccines for kids. He also does not recommend boosters for anyone at all based on current info he recieves through medical journals where he used to write. Take my hearsay for what it is worth.

I have just seen too much death and misery around my family and friends to not encourage vaccinations for folks over 35. Being in ICU for my dad and seeing that nearly every bed was filled with unvaccinated older folks passing away nearly daily. I had one ICU attending physician literally shedding tears beacsue his older loved ones refused to get vaccinated and he was seeign firsthand the impact. Every. Day. Again, just my opinion in regard to older at risk folks. I get the reservations for many completely. But as several of this board including me have experienced, this virus is brutal.
This right here. I had a friend and former coworker in Dallas, unvaccinated, pass away from Covid, and he was my age (36) with no underlying health conditions. Other friends have wound up in the hospital, and a friend of my family's also passed away. My niece in Seattle, too young to be vaccinated, is dealing with the virus now. Yes, the delta variant is on the downswing and has almost burned itself out, but please - if only so your loved ones aren't left dealing with the pain of an early departure - get vaccinated if you're eligible!
User avatar
By Kolzilla41
Registration Days Posts
#632874
Hey guys, I figured I would weigh in here as well. I live in Amherst County, right outside of Lynchburg, and work in Charlottesville. I am a healthcare worker and am vaccinated. I got COVID basically Labor Day and my wife(vaccinated) and my two younger sons (not vaccinated) all got it. It was no walk in the park. I am grateful that I did get it back in February. I've personally known and witnessed folks in their mid-30s to much later in life pass away from this pandemic. At one point we were averaging almost 3.5 deaths a day in Lynchburg the entire month of August and into September. Thankfully we're seeing the numbers drop for hospitalizations and deaths as well as declining positive cases.

It seems that this virus runs hot for 2 months and then goes into hiding/mutation mode since the beginning. That means we'll probably see another spike towards the end of 2021. I urge you all to get your flu shots and the COVID vaccine if you're older or have underlying health conditions. I've witnessed adults cry for the vaccine when it is too late.Its devastating for them and their loved ones.

@Sly Fox I also agree with your friend. my two boys will not get the vaccine. The numbers for vaccine induced myocarditis in boys under the age of 18 are not being properly reported and since they've already had it, it buys us some time to see where this goes.
stokesjokes liked this
  • 1
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
Game #7 Preview : @ ULM

It’s been a long time since I posted here, b[…]

The Biden thread

If bets come true I'll be paying $12 a gallon for […]

Special Teams

Don’t care. Starting at the 25 consistentl[…]

The COVID-19 Megathread

Dang, that’s intense. People are advoca[…]