Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

#629608
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:04 am BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
Who said anything about free or nothing for a 1 off road game. FCs and a lot of G5 play them every year to keep their program afloat. It’s thei highest paid road game of the year...
#629612
Purple Haize wrote: July 29th, 2021, 8:36 am
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:04 am BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
Hard to build a fan base with road games.
Hard to sell season ticket packages for home games when there are only 3 or 4
Hard to get people to buy season tickets when your home games are against Our Mother of the Worthless Miracle
Point 1 - hard to build a local fan base in Lynchburg VA where half the town hates you, period. So instead focus on getting your small but national brand associated with P5 schools by actually playing P5 schools and have 2 HOME P5 games a year from 2 for 1 games and the rest 1 off games = much higher tv contract, demand for home tickets with one fewer game but higher quality. Try and make the one home game you give up the Thanksgiving week game which had all of 4500 people in the stands.
Point 2 - see above.
Point 3 - see above.
Point 4. - again that is If you truly want to try and be a BYU “ complete at the highest level” and the quickest path, now that 12 team playoff looks probable - just figure out bare minimum schedule to put us in the mix - with the news last week - I think our “ future scheduling” staff just got a different list of priorities to be working on.
Last edited by tyndal23 on July 29th, 2021, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
#629615
Sly Fox wrote: July 29th, 2021, 9:05 am There is a minimum of five home games required of all FBS members. That was an issue when we were transitioning and the doomsayers were insisting it couldn't be done.
As leader of The Dark Side the concern was (and still is) QUALITY home games. Next year will be the first with really high profile opponents. But that also appears to be an aberration
#629618
I have to say that Ian has done an amazing job building the relationships that have resulted in the P5's that we see now on future schedules. UVA, V-Tech, UNC, N.C. State, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Army, etc, don't happen by accident. I think we will see further growth here, but if you look at most P5 and AAC team's schedules there are a couple of games where teams are absolute underdogs, a few toss ups and more where the team should be favored. We are looking at that now, but as the program becomes more established, I would guess we would see more ambitious 1 time and 2 for 1's dot the schedule. Given the cultural biases and the less than urban location, I am amazed the conversations we are having now compared with a few short years ago.
#629620
Racenut wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:18 am I have to say that Ian has done an amazing job building the relationships that have resulted in the P5's that we see now on future schedules. UVA, V-Tech, UNC, N.C. State, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Army, etc, don't happen by accident. I think we will see further growth here, but if you look at most P5 and AAC team's schedules there are a couple of games where teams are absolute underdogs, a few toss ups and more where the team should be favored. We are looking at that now, but as the program becomes more established, I would guess we would see more ambitious 1 time and 2 for 1's dot the schedule. Given the cultural biases and the less than urban location, I am amazed the conversations we are having now compared with a few short years ago.
[/quote

3 months ago I was extremely skeptical of the “break away” from NCAA super league theory. Now I am convinced it is going to happen and relatively soon. The rest of the teams left will be able to play for a National Title and it could well model the current FCS. LU could be a major factor in that division once the 16-24-32 teams (or whatever the number) have moved on to their semi pro league. Praying that doesn’t happen, but if it does - opportunity to play for a NC every year is 10 times better than a G5 league that could never get there. The 12 team playoff was a major positive shift, but even that looks either in complete jeopardy or very short lived. Congress may very well get involved sooner rather than later since this effects so many states and the “ super league “ gets squashed - otherwise I think it is very real.
#629628
tyndal23 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 9:22 am
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:04 am BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
Who said anything about free or nothing for a 1 off road game. FCs and a lot of G5 play them every year to keep their program afloat. It’s thei highest paid road game of the year...
I thought you said we are P5. Are we back to comparing ourselves to FCS and G5? Are P5’s going to pay other P5’s for games?
#629631
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 1:54 pm
tyndal23 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 9:22 am
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:04 am BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
Who said anything about free or nothing for a 1 off road game. FCs and a lot of G5 play them every year to keep their program afloat. It’s thei highest paid road game of the year...
I thought you said we are P5. Are we back to comparing ourselves to FCS and G5? Are P5’s going to pay other P5’s for games?
You thought wrong JK. As usual.
#629633
Sly Fox wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:16 am It is tough to predict what will constitute quality in the future outside of the obvious brand names. If the Ragin Cajuns roll into Lynchburg ranked Top 15 that creates a quality home game IMHO.
Quick call 20 people in Lynchburg at random and ask them if they know who the Ragin Cajuns are. I suspect James Carville will receive the most votes. Top 15 flukes do not “quality” make
#629634
tyndal23 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 12:01 pm
Racenut wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:18 am I have to say that Ian has done an amazing job building the relationships that have resulted in the P5's that we see now on future schedules. UVA, V-Tech, UNC, N.C. State, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Army, etc, don't happen by accident. I think we will see further growth here, but if you look at most P5 and AAC team's schedules there are a couple of games where teams are absolute underdogs, a few toss ups and more where the team should be favored. We are looking at that now, but as the program becomes more established, I would guess we would see more ambitious 1 time and 2 for 1's dot the schedule. Given the cultural biases and the less than urban location, I am amazed the conversations we are having now compared with a few short years ago.
[/quote

3 months ago I was extremely skeptical of the “break away” from NCAA super league theory. Now I am convinced it is going to happen and relatively soon. The rest of the teams left will be able to play for a National Title and it could well model the current FCS. LU could be a major factor in that division once the 16-24-32 teams (or whatever the number) have moved on to their semi pro league. Praying that doesn’t happen, but if it does - opportunity to play for a NC every year is 10 times better than a G5 league that could never get there. The 12 team playoff was a major positive shift, but even that looks either in complete jeopardy or very short lived. Congress may very well get involved sooner rather than later since this effects so many states and the “ super league “ gets squashed - otherwise I think it is very real.
Wait? If LU is P5 equivalent in your World why wouldn’t they be in the Super League as opposed to the “Championship League”? Seems the teams playing in the afCS modeled league are G5 or less equivalent. Don’t give up on your fantasy now!
#629638
Purple Haize wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:17 pm
tyndal23 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 12:01 pm
Racenut wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:18 am I have to say that Ian has done an amazing job building the relationships that have resulted in the P5's that we see now on future schedules. UVA, V-Tech, UNC, N.C. State, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Army, etc, don't happen by accident. I think we will see further growth here, but if you look at most P5 and AAC team's schedules there are a couple of games where teams are absolute underdogs, a few toss ups and more where the team should be favored. We are looking at that now, but as the program becomes more established, I would guess we would see more ambitious 1 time and 2 for 1's dot the schedule. Given the cultural biases and the less than urban location, I am amazed the conversations we are having now compared with a few short years ago.
[/quote

3 months ago I was extremely skeptical of the “break away” from NCAA super league theory. Now I am convinced it is going to happen and relatively soon. The rest of the teams left will be able to play for a National Title and it could well model the current FCS. LU could be a major factor in that division once the 16-24-32 teams (or whatever the number) have moved on to their semi pro league. Praying that doesn’t happen, but if it does - opportunity to play for a NC every year is 10 times better than a G5 league that could never get there. The 12 team playoff was a major positive shift, but even that looks either in complete jeopardy or very short lived. Congress may very well get involved sooner rather than later since this effects so many states and the “ super league “ gets squashed - otherwise I think it is very real.
Wait? If LU is P5 equivalent in your World why wouldn’t they be in the Super League as opposed to the “Championship League”? Seems the teams playing in the afCS modeled league are G5 or less equivalent. Don’t give up on your fantasy now!
JK’s cousin,
LU ain’t P5 in my world nor will they ever be ( since no P5 conference will ever invite us) but they can be a P5 Equivalent ( as is BYU and ND - some visionary once stated that was a goal )with a simple plan and financial commitment. You call that a fantasy. I called waiting for a G5 invite and then a “next step” of waiting for a P5 invite, well I called it a lot of things, none of them good. I abhor G5 football because it is the only sport in any NCAA division that can’t compete for a NC. Wake me up when all this realignment is over and let me know if LU can.
#629639
Lots of backpedaling there. If P5 Equivalent isn’t P5 than what is it? G5 Plus? I mean P5 is the Ultimate destination. If you said LU should already be considered there why sell them short in the new realignment scenario? This Super League is gonna be the equivalent of P5. Are we next going to have to hear you drone on about how LU is Super League equivalent even though they are not in the Super League?
#629641
@tyndal23 fine, I’ll go along with P5 “equivalent”. You can call my statement wrong, but to debate effectively you cannot ignore the follow-up questions:

1. Are we back to comparing ourselves to FCS and G5, as you did when you pointed out that P5’s routinely pay such programs for game, or

2. Do P5’s pay P5 equivalents for games?
#629647
Purple Haize wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:13 pm
Sly Fox wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:16 am It is tough to predict what will constitute quality in the future outside of the obvious brand names. If the Ragin Cajuns roll into Lynchburg ranked Top 15 that creates a quality home game IMHO.
Quick call 20 people in Lynchburg at random and ask them if they know who the Ragin Cajuns are. I suspect James Carville will receive the most votes. Top 15 flukes do not “quality” make
I understand where you are coming from, but it could be a matchup of two top 25 teams. That would have people talking.
#629648
alabama24 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 9:06 pm
Purple Haize wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:13 pm
Sly Fox wrote: July 29th, 2021, 11:16 am It is tough to predict what will constitute quality in the future outside of the obvious brand names. If the Ragin Cajuns roll into Lynchburg ranked Top 15 that creates a quality home game IMHO.
Quick call 20 people in Lynchburg at random and ask them if they know who the Ragin Cajuns are. I suspect James Carville will receive the most votes. Top 15 flukes do not “quality” make
I understand where you are coming from, but it could be a matchup of two top 25 teams. That would have people talking.
Yes but is it going to drive season ticket sales? If the Ragin Cajuns can be perennial Top 25 then yes. But not now
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#629658
Purple Haize wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:51 pm Lots of backpedaling there. If P5 Equivalent isn’t P5 than what is it? G5 Plus? I mean P5 is the Ultimate destination. If you said LU should already be considered there why sell them short in the new realignment scenario? This Super League is gonna be the equivalent of P5. Are we next going to have to hear you drone on about how LU is Super League equivalent even though they are not in the Super League?
It is simply defined as when 1 conference or more counts you as a P5 game when they require all of their schools to schedule 1 P5 non con game per year. Nothing more nothing less - but what it means typically is 1 for 1 games when you are considered P5 equivalent - such as Army OU, BYU USC.
No you won’t hear me drone on about LU being Super League and in fact you haven’t heard me drone on about P5/G5 since the 12 team playoff was announced. Read my opening statement on this thread.

One more note - the details of 12 Team Playoff are potential being rehashed ( statements by some AD’s are stating that they aren’t just going to let SEC take up rest of the playoff spots ) - reported/commented on by 247 Sports Josh Pate- he thinks that IF other Conference Members move to limit number of conference teams in Playoff - That will be the trigger for SEC to leave NCAA and invite select few top teams to Super League. Once that happens, the leftovers can create a playoff like all other normal NCAA divisions. Where LU fits in with that scenario is anybody’s guess. If it simply stays as P4 16 team conferences or long shot current 5 team P5 - then for LU,simply a question of how to strategically schedule for a playoff spot for LU. Could be no P5 games or may require 6 - and one year won’t be the same as another year. And once again, I imagine all future scheduling talks for LU on completely on hold for now ( as with most everyone ).
#629659
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 4:15 pm @tyndal23 fine, I’ll go along with P5 “equivalent”. You can call my statement wrong, but to debate effectively you cannot ignore the follow-up questions:

1. Are we back to comparing ourselves to FCS and G5, as you did when you pointed out that P5’s routinely pay such programs for game, or

2. Do P5’s pay P5 equivalents for games?
Are you not going to acknowledge that MD just signed another “home and home” with UCF after losing to them buy 18 at home? That was your BIG ISSUE - why would any P5 risk losing to a good G5?
Are you really seriously asking me if USC pays BYU or OU pays Army for games? Are you seriously asking if P5’s pay more for G5 level teams for a home game than an FCS game? If you are going to argue just to argue - then I won’t bother responding. Research is pretty easy with Google.
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