Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

#629076
Ill flame wrote: July 20th, 2021, 8:54 pm Imo regular season neutral site games should only be reserved for regional rivalry games played at a pro stadium between the two schools.

Texas v Oklahoma @ Dallas
Army v Navy @ Philadelphia
Illinois v Missouri @ St Louis
Colorado v Colorado st @ Denver
Georgia v Florida @ Jacksonville

Having each team travel almost a thousand miles for a regular season game just doesn't make sense to me.
Unless it was playing the same week as Conference Champs annually between 2 private Independent schools trying to stay relevant on the national stage vs not playing that week, then I would agree...especially when 1 of those schools wouldn’t bother to schedule it annually if it were a home and home only scenario. LU would make more TV $ dropping the Thanksgiving week home game and playing in Dallas ( a lot more $ ) . There are a lot of LU alumni that will go to Dallas that won’t go to Lynchburg ( which is a tough trip from west of The Mississippi ). BUT no big deal, odds of either team pursuing it pretty slim. Maybe we throw some $ at BYU for a normal home and home and get them to the table every year. I hope Ian is looking at BC,TCU,Baylor,Northwestern for series.
#629078
BC, TCU, Baylor, Northwestern - honest question, can you tell me why you’ve pinpointed these four in particular?

And then, can you tell me the last time each of them scheduled a toss-up in Non-con against a non-P5?

And do you think Baylor remembers LOSING to LU? (How long was it until Michigan scheduled App State again?)
#629079
JK37 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 10:05 pm BC, TCU, Baylor, Northwestern - honest question, can you tell me why you’ve pinpointed these four in particular?

And then, can you tell me the last time each of them scheduled a toss-up in Non-con against a non-P5?

And do you think Baylor remembers LOSING to LU? (How long was it until Michigan scheduled App State again?)
Happy to. Private schools. Some with religious affiliation. As for “last time” it has no relevance since moving forward middle tier P5 teams will be analyzing their non con just like everyone else to make sure it is strong enough for a potential 12 team playoff berth. Many 2-3 loss P5 teams will be in the playoff mix IF their remaining SOS is strong enough. ( by the way JK, you have referenced P5 teams being more skittish of playing good G5 teams - I think it is the opposite - LU will have a harder time getting top G5 teams to play us ( outside of AAC ) because the Boise and App St teams of the world will think they also have a shot at 12th spot with an undefeated season as a 2nd G5 team in).

Not sure any of these teams consider LU as a “toss up”on the road, they will all be 1 off or 2 for 1.
Baylor at Texas St 21 ( better roster than LU by 247 )
Baylor BYU 2022 ( counts as P5).
Baylor Air Force ( home and home )
I doubt Baylor remembers losing to LU any more than the other 10 schools they lost to that year...and we do have strong ties there still ( yes even after the Hearing Ian got called back for - Ian is well respected there).


TCU
SMU - home and home 21,22,23,24

Northwestern
Ohio -21
Tulane -25
( interesting they have some holes to fill on their near term schedules )

BC
Temple 21
Army
Cinci - home and home
#629080
tyndal23 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 10:40 pm
JK37 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 10:05 pm BC, TCU, Baylor, Northwestern - honest question, can you tell me why you’ve pinpointed these four in particular?

And then, can you tell me the last time each of them scheduled a toss-up in Non-con against a non-P5?

And do you think Baylor remembers LOSING to LU? (How long was it until Michigan scheduled App State again?)
Happy to. Private schools. Some with religious affiliation. As for “last time” it has no relevance since moving forward middle tier P5 teams will be analyzing their non con just like everyone else to make sure it is strong enough for a potential 12 team playoff berth. Many 2-3 loss P5 teams will be in the playoff mix IF their remaining SOS is strong enough. ( by the way JK, you have referenced P5 teams being more skittish of playing good G5 teams - I think it is the opposite - LU will have a harder time getting top G5 teams to play us ( outside of AAC ) because the Boise and App St teams of the world will think they also have a shot at 12th spot with an undefeated season as a 2nd G5 team in).

Not sure any of these teams consider LU as a “toss up”on the road, they will all be 1 off or 2 for 1.
Baylor at Texas St 21 ( better roster than LU by 247 )
Baylor BYU 2022 ( counts as P5).
Baylor Air Force ( home and home )
I doubt Baylor remembers losing to LU any more than the other 10 schools they lost to that year...and we do have strong ties there still ( yes even after the Hearing Ian got called back for - Ian is well respected there).


TCU
SMU - home and home 21,22,23,24

Northwestern
Ohio -21
Tulane -25
( interesting they have some holes to fill on their near term schedules )

BC
Temple 21
Army
Cinci - home and home
Sorry - forgot to answer your MIchigan/ App St game - they played 7 years later and was App St 1st true FBS game after moving up and MI beat them 52-14. LU also got in on the fun that year and beat App St...
#629081
TCU v SMU may have some credence.

I guarantee Northwestern doesn’t consider Ohio and Tulane toss-ups.

Same with BC for Temple and Army. Willing to do Cincy because they got a home-home out of it.

Maybe we should use another criteria in addition to yours: look for P5’s without money to buy home wins? That would be BC, hence the Cincy series.
#629082
JK37 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 11:51 pm TCU v SMU may have some credence.

I guarantee Northwestern doesn’t consider Ohio and Tulane toss-ups.

Same with BC for Temple and Army. Willing to do Cincy because they got a home-home out of it.

Maybe we should use another criteria in addition to yours: look for P5’s without money to buy home wins? That would be BC, hence the Cincy series.
A little confused about your “toss up” comment. To clarify, I am not talking about 1 for 1 series - just one off away games or 2 for 1 when referring to these teams. Ohio, Tulane, Temple and Army all better Programs than LU currently. Not sure why you think LU couldn’t get a road game or 2 for 1 with any of these listed P5 teams moving forward. And to clarify, I am not saying the aforementioned G5’s have a better “team” than our 20,21 team, but certainly better historical Programs ( Cinci would roll us) . I had a complete separate list for 1 for 1 “buy”games when I was talking about P5 equivalent road map - on this thread I am talking about a handful of P5 teams to sprinkle in for 12 team playoff SOS. ( sorry may have been confusing with the BYU series discussion - but BYU schedules 1 for 1 with G5 all the time - it’s just that Lynchburg is very far and we aren’t established enough for them to schedule us annually, nor do they need us to fill their schedule - hence the neutral site, on the specific Conf Champ weekend where they get a lot of other benefits than just a 1 for 1 locked in game every year with a new up and coming FBS team with a small stadium 2000 miles away)

Is BC out of $ ? Wasn’t aware of it. That would be a great long term home and home to pay out more $ for to get.

JK - how many P5’s do you think we need for a Playoff Spot most years? I am torn, I don’t think 2 is enough most years, but not really sure the right balance we should be going for.
#629096
I don’t think it’s just P5’s. It has to be the right ones. Let’s say we have BC, NW and TCU on the schedule, and we sweep them or win 2 of 3. I think the committee would say, “They’re P5’s, but not GOOD P5’s.” At least right now. We’re talking years down the road, so who knows.

BC isn’t flush with cash. When the COA stuff was being decided upon years ago, they were the lone P5 who voted against it. They’re an outlier in P5. Which is what we’re looking for, so maybe that works in our favor.

That said, a program that’s already an outlier and doesn’t belong (BC, NW, I wouldn’t put TCU there), has a lot at risk playing an up-and-coming program like LU. It’s dangerous for them with no return. Like I’ve previously described, a loss kills them, and a win doesn’t mean much.
#629111
JK37 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:05 am A toss-up game is a 50/50 game or close to it, as opposed to a definite W or L.
I get the term, just not why they would consider LU a toss up game ( right now). BC definitely schedules harder than Baylor, TCU has improved their non con recently. Baylor saves their “toss up” game for the mandatory P5 non con. Not sure if BIg 12 is counting Air Force as P5 for them.
#629118
You don’t think LU goes on planning to win? You don’t think those programs would give Liberty a decent chance at beating them?

My point is that Liberty is a toss-up. We are a threat now to lower P5’s because we can compete with them for 60:00. So too much risk for too little reward to play us.
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#629127
JK37 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:29 pm You don’t think LU goes on planning to win? You don’t think those programs would give Liberty a decent chance at beating them?

My point is that Liberty is a toss-up. We are a threat now to lower P5’s because we can compete with them for 60:00. So too much risk for too little reward to play us.
I guess we are doomed then. FYI I did some digging on BC - they have 2.4 billion Endowment and 4th highest in ACC - but they keep it separate from Athletic Department. They run 29 NCAA teams - that is why their Athletic Budget is always tight. They aren’t a poor school. 82 million Athletic Budget. ( and yes I saw the 247 article but dug deeper ).
#629221
Not about the 12 team playoff, but if we want ESPN to cover our home games, we can't be playing New Mexico State, UConn, and UMass at home, along with an FCS team. In many years, you are starting off with 3 bad home games of teams that have no connection to Liberty and won't send road fans.
#629564
JK37 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 1:29 pm You don’t think LU goes on planning to win? You don’t think those programs would give Liberty a decent chance at beating them?

My point is that Liberty is a toss-up. We are a threat now to lower P5’s because we can compete with them for 60:00. So too much risk for too little reward to play us.
UCF and MD add home and home series...why on earth would MD “risk losing” ?
#629568
thepostman wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:00 pm To be fair, UCF has surpassed Maryland. UCF still had to do a 2 for 1 with Florida in order to get them to play them.

UCF and Liberty aren't the same. At least not yet.
I am well aware of all the home and home and two for one games between G5 and P5 schools. JK argues no one will play LU when we get good IF it doesn’t count as a P5 game for them like BYU.
#629571
thepostman wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:24 pm But LU and UCF are not the same. At least not yet. But UCF has had well documented issues scheduling P5 schools. So it isn't really helping your argument.
What? So you are saying they should schedule us when we aren’t “established” as good, and when we do get “ established” as good they should still schedule us ? I agree, Pretty much my entire argument all along -most schools schedule for an easy win, a closer “should win” and a toss up ( which is typically their mandated P5 non con game. jK is the one stating otherwise. As for home and home - different deal Lynchburg isn’t a “ destination” like Orlando - their fans will have no problem doing a one for one - it will be their “ bowl game”.
#629574
tyndal23 wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:46 pm
thepostman wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:24 pm But LU and UCF are not the same. At least not yet. But UCF has had well documented issues scheduling P5 schools. So it isn't really helping your argument.
What? So you are saying they should schedule us when we aren’t “established” as good, and when we do get “ established” as good they should still schedule us ? I agree, Pretty much my entire argument all along -most schools schedule for an easy win, a closer “should win” and a toss up ( which is typically their mandated P5 non con game. jK is the one stating otherwise. As for home and home - different deal Lynchburg isn’t a “ destination” like Orlando - their fans will have no problem doing a one for one - it will be their “ bowl game”.
Here is a link to past,present and future UCF schedules. MD lost at home to UCF in 2017 and just resigned a new home and home with UCF. Come back at me with any argument UCF has had playing P5 games once you go back 10 years and look at their scheduling. ( other than FL not wanting to do a “home and home” with UCF - and why would they ? ). UCF caved and they announced 2-1 last week. The “no one will play us” argument just isn’t factual.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2016/team/ucf
#629577
tyndal23 wrote: July 28th, 2021, 3:42 pm
tyndal23 wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:46 pm
thepostman wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:24 pm But LU and UCF are not the same. At least not yet. But UCF has had well documented issues scheduling P5 schools. So it isn't really helping your argument.
What? So you are saying they should schedule us when we aren’t “established” as good, and when we do get “ established” as good they should still schedule us ? I agree, Pretty much my entire argument all along -most schools schedule for an easy win, a closer “should win” and a toss up ( which is typically their mandated P5 non con game. jK is the one stating otherwise. As for home and home - different deal Lynchburg isn’t a “ destination” like Orlando - their fans will have no problem doing a one for one - it will be their “ bowl game”.
Here is a link to past,present and future UCF schedules. MD lost at home to UCF in 2017 and just resigned a new home and home with UCF. Come back at me with any argument UCF has had playing P5 games once you go back 10 years and look at their scheduling. ( other than FL not wanting to do a “home and home” with UCF - and why would they ? ). UCF caved and they announced 2-1 last week. The “no one will play us” argument just isn’t factual.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2016/team/ucf
You've been arguing for us to play 6+ P5 games a year and then point at UCF scheduling one home and home against a bottom tier P5 like they just proved it could be done. We've already proven it's not difficult to get 1-2 P5s on the schedule. Getting more than 4 is really hard to do. BYU has a massive fanbase, a good tv deal and a national brand and they still struggle to schedule more than 4 most years.
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#629580
Ill flame wrote: July 28th, 2021, 4:32 pm
tyndal23 wrote: July 28th, 2021, 3:42 pm
tyndal23 wrote: July 28th, 2021, 2:46 pm

What? So you are saying they should schedule us when we aren’t “established” as good, and when we do get “ established” as good they should still schedule us ? I agree, Pretty much my entire argument all along -most schools schedule for an easy win, a closer “should win” and a toss up ( which is typically their mandated P5 non con game. jK is the one stating otherwise. As for home and home - different deal Lynchburg isn’t a “ destination” like Orlando - their fans will have no problem doing a one for one - it will be their “ bowl game”.
Here is a link to past,present and future UCF schedules. MD lost at home to UCF in 2017 and just resigned a new home and home with UCF. Come back at me with any argument UCF has had playing P5 games once you go back 10 years and look at their scheduling. ( other than FL not wanting to do a “home and home” with UCF - and why would they ? ). UCF caved and they announced 2-1 last week. The “no one will play us” argument just isn’t factual.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2016/team/ucf
You've been arguing for us to play 6+ P5 games a year and then point at UCF scheduling one home and home against a bottom tier P5 like they just proved it could be done. We've already proven it's not difficult to get 1-2 P5s on the schedule. Getting more than 4 is really hard to do. BYU has a massive fanbase, a good tv deal and a national brand and they still struggle to schedule more than 4 most years.
Yea - again wrong thread. Now that it looks like G5 is relevant and can actually get a playoff spot - ( see the title of the thread ). Somehow JK thinks it will be even harder now for LU to get P5 games. As for my 6 P5 games a year ( under tHr old thread of P5 Indie vs G5 Indie - 4 of those 6 would would have been road games. There are 66 P5/equivalent - give me your list of who LU could not schedule a 1 off road game to...if BYU wanted 6 P5 games they could schedule them easily.
#629596
BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
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#629601
JK37 wrote: July 29th, 2021, 3:04 am BYU - correctly - doesn’t want all their games to be road games.

Why should LU schedule 1-off road games? We don’t get paid, and we don’t get a return. Why would we do that? You can’t expect others to respect your program if you don’t.

I didn’t realize that was an option. If LU was willing to schedule 1-off road games with P5 for nothing, then I agree with you and they probably could schedule 4-6 P5’s per year.
Hard to build a fan base with road games
Hard to sell season ticket packages for home games when there are only 3 or 4
Hard to get people to buy season tickets when your home games are against Our Mother of the Worthless Miracle
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