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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#625687
A forensic audit of 2.1 million votes in Maricopa County, AZ has been ongoing since the end of May. This includes infrared lights for tracking of watermarks on ballots.

What will the results reveal? Will Trump claims of massive voter fraud be substantiated? What state will be next?
Last edited by SumItUp on May 13th, 2021, 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#625688
When the first two audits don't go their way I guess it's time for the GOP dominated Senate to hire a firm with little to no known experience, who's CEO retweeted that the election was stolen from Trump, and is funded in part by a reporter at AON who get's preferred access, Mike Lindell, and Lin Wood as the AZ GOP raises funds off it. :roll:
By stokesjokes
Posts
#625711
For those who are probably going to take the audit results seriously, here’s something that might help you think critically through the auditors claims:

I fully anticipate the auditors to present real, true information. I also fully anticipate them to insist on dubious conclusions from that information. That’s the lifeblood of conspiracy theories.

Take for example the moon landing hoax. Moon landing deniers will tell you that if you watch the video of the team planting the flag on the moon, the flag is waving, which it shouldn’t be since there’s no air or wind to wave the flag up there. Then people watch the video and think “Wow, they’re right, it’s all fake!” because the flag does, indeed, wave. What they don’t tell you is that the flag only waves when the astronauts are moving it around. 10 seconds to consider possible other explanations and that “proof” is dead in the water.

Please be mindful of this when presented with “proof” of fraud.

It reminds me of a claim that Jovan guy made in the other video: Bernie Sanders said months before the election that it would probably look like Trump is winning on election night and then Biden would overtake him during the late night counts. Proof, he claims, that this was rigged and Sanders was in on it! ...Or Sanders just knew based on Trump’s rhetoric and disinformation about mail-in voting that Trump votes would skew in-person and be counted first, while Biden votes would skew towards mail and be counted last. Most people knew this would be the case. Again, real information (Sanders prediction), insistent on dubious conclusion (he was in on it!).
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By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#625721
I may be wrong. But my best guess would be the very things that were very concerning about him from the beginning. Relentlessly attempts to force his version of reality. Manipulative. Thin-skinned. Knee-jerk insults when triggered. In other words, he behaves exactly like the Left IMO. They both project their deceptions on the other guy.

Still prefer the GOP platform, though. They could've used the little that they have on election irregularities. Would've helped them in 2022. But Trump negated all that with his out-of-control behavior.
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By stokesjokes
Posts
#625722
To loop back to my comment on the other thread, the GOP would be in a much better position if they were able to look inward. They even did the famous “post-mortem” after Romney’s loss which had some solid recommendations about how to broaden their appeal and base, they just haven’t followed any of them. As long as they’re insistent that their only problems are external, they won’t change and they will keep losing ground and viability as the country’s demographics continue to change.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#625725
Bush may have been right, in spirit, when he stated that he was probably the last Republican president. Trump got the GOP nod, but he's more like an American version of Le Pen, than a legit Republican. Not the leftist caricature of her but the populist version. Either way, I really don't see them winning another presidential election, unless both parties split, and we end up with 4.

My guess is that the GOP will likely move more toward a Bill Clinton-like approach: fiscal conservatism, but socially liberal. But even with that, they probably won't be able to overcome the dominance and authority of the Left.
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By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#625740
paradox wrote: May 4th, 2021, 11:46 am Bush may have been right, in spirit, when he stated that he was probably the last Republican president. Trump got the GOP nod, but he's more like an American version of Le Pen, than a legit Republican. Not the leftist caricature of her but the populist version. Either way, I really don't see them winning another presidential election, unless both parties split, and we end up with 4.

My guess is that the GOP will likely move more toward a Bill Clinton-like approach: fiscal conservatism, but socially liberal. But even with that, they probably won't be able to overcome the dominance and authority of the Left.
Interesting. The GOP is definitely screwed long-term as they have completely gone full nativist. While they have picked up some Hispanic support in the last election I don't think it will continue on the pace they need to win elections in 20 years. I don't know how they have managed to lose the Asian vote. And you cannot convince me they will make much headway with the Black vote.

I I might disagree with you on the ideological makeup of the future of the GOP...if they can find one. (McConnel and L. Graham tell us it's just about what gets votes). With their loyalty to Trump they certainly are no longer for small government or even give lip service to spending unless they are out of the White House. It seems they will continue to play the populist game and pit the rural "working man" and the "country losing it's identity and heritage" vs. against immigration and "wokeism".
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By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#625747
Orwell, who was far from conservative, once said, "So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot." I don't know if things will ever change course. But if things do turn around, we'll probably have to get burned first.
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#626112
Things are heating up in AZ and it's not even summer yet. Cheaters have no where to hide. The truth will be revealed. Beware of the fact checkers and debunkers that are not calling for transparency. #snopesjokes :D
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By lynchburgwildcats
Posts
#626765
paradox wrote: May 4th, 2021, 11:46 am Bush may have been right, in spirit, when he stated that he was probably the last Republican president. Trump got the GOP nod, but he's more like an American version of Le Pen, than a legit Republican. Not the leftist caricature of her but the populist version. Either way, I really don't see them winning another presidential election, unless both parties split, and we end up with 4.

My guess is that the GOP will likely move more toward a Bill Clinton-like approach: fiscal conservatism, but socially liberal. But even with that, they probably won't be able to overcome the dominance and authority of the Left.
Socially liberal from the same party that recently passed a bill in Tennessee requiring businesses to post signs to discriminate against transgendered people? The same one still largely opposed to marijuana legalization? The same one trying to pass laws that would throw people in jail for getting/performing an abortion? The same party that likes to treat/frame all immigrants like murderous, rapist, savage animals? What kind of fantasy world are you living in?

And the GOP, at least nationally, hasn't been fiscally conservative in years. They'll spend to their heats content as long as they are in power.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626771
Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
By lynchburgwildcats
Posts
#626775
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
And then a little over a decade earlier when they should be entering their prime earning years, what happens? A pandemic hits just a few years into a relative economic boom period to derail things all over again. I lost the highest paid job I've ever had due to it. The job/company was terrible though so it's not all bad in that regard.

The 2020 college class graduated into a trash job market too, and 2021 to a lesser degree. The 2021 class lost valuable summer internship opportunities in 2020 as well.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#626777
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
Millennials need to figure out how to utilize communist slave labor. Use the US based, multinational corporate business model. Avoid US environmental laws and paying a living wage by making it where neither exists, in some communist country in Asia. :(
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626781
lynchburgwildcats wrote: May 29th, 2021, 11:14 pm
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
And then a little over a decade earlier when they should be entering their prime earning years, what happens? A pandemic hits just a few years into a relative economic boom period to derail things all over again. I lost the highest paid job I've ever had due to it. The job/company was terrible though so it's not all bad in that regard.

The 2020 college class graduated into a trash job market too, and 2021 to a lesser degree. The 2021 class lost valuable summer internship opportunities in 2020 as well.
It's tough. I had a similar experience in the aftermath of the 2008 crisis. There are many who still haven't fully recovered from that one.
By lynchburgwildcats
Posts
#626787
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
I also find it ironic that the GOP's insistence on deregulation in everything - because remember the free market fixes everything!* - is largely what led to the collapse and at least somewhat to this leftward trend.

*Except when this free-market-fixes-everything philosophy starts to hurt them, like when they give companies free speech rights in the name of denying service (see Colorado bakery case). Then that got turned around against them by social media companies banning people like Trump for violating their terms of service. See, NOW we need more regulation on private industry because they can't buy their way out of this problem.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626788
There definitely needs to be sensible regulation in order for free markets to flourish. Excessive deregulation activity played a major role in the collapse as did unrealistic progressive ideals such as the notion that everyone is entitled to own a home whether they can afford it or not.

Ironically enough, the GOP failure was mainly the repeal of a 1933 regulation act co-authored by Lynchburg's Carter Glass. That regulation was put there as a safeguard against another Great Depression. And it's repeal enabled the Great Recession.
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By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#626794
Good synopsis, Paradox.

Significant market corrections have occurred an average of every 8.5-9 years over the past century and a half. 2008-09 to 2020 was almost 12. We were 2.5 years drunk at the punch bowl and loving it. No one could’ve predicted COVID would do it, but we were long overdue.

Glass-Steagal Act repeal was a major guardrail cut down.

Bot everybody should own a home. Not everyone should go to college. Equal opportunity is fine; equal outcome is ridiculous.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#626796
lynchburgwildcats wrote: May 30th, 2021, 11:27 am
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
I also find it ironic that the GOP's insistence on deregulation in everything - because remember the free market fixes everything!* - is largely what led to the collapse and at least somewhat to this leftward trend.

*Except when this free-market-fixes-everything philosophy starts to hurt them, like when they give companies free speech rights in the name of denying service (see Colorado bakery case). Then that got turned around against them by social media companies banning people like Trump for violating their terms of service. See, NOW we need more regulation on private industry because they can't buy their way out of this problem.
Your tone seems to indicate you are looking for one be-all-end-all philosophy to solve. Unfortunately history has taught us that simply isn’t possible. I don’t know how old you are, but young people tend to see the world more idealistically in this way, chiefly because they don’t possess that historical perspective. Communism doesn’t work, socialism doesn’t work, capitalism is the best choice we’ve got, but it’s FAR from perfect. What’s derailed us is that our politicians have prioritized power and winning over progress. Which requires compromise - the likes of which we can’t employ if we’re more worried about power and winning.
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By lynchburgwildcats
Posts
#626801
JK37 wrote: May 30th, 2021, 2:26 pm
lynchburgwildcats wrote: May 30th, 2021, 11:27 am
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
I also find it ironic that the GOP's insistence on deregulation in everything - because remember the free market fixes everything!* - is largely what led to the collapse and at least somewhat to this leftward trend.

*Except when this free-market-fixes-everything philosophy starts to hurt them, like when they give companies free speech rights in the name of denying service (see Colorado bakery case). Then that got turned around against them by social media companies banning people like Trump for violating their terms of service. See, NOW we need more regulation on private industry because they can't buy their way out of this problem.
Your tone seems to indicate you are looking for one be-all-end-all philosophy to solve. Unfortunately history has taught us that simply isn’t possible. I don’t know how old you are, but young people tend to see the world more idealistically in this way, chiefly because they don’t possess that historical perspective. Communism doesn’t work, socialism doesn’t work, capitalism is the best choice we’ve got, but it’s FAR from perfect. What’s derailed us is that our politicians have prioritized power and winning over progress. Which requires compromise - the likes of which we can’t employ if we’re more worried about power and winning.
No, not a one be-all-end-all philosophy is the problem we have now with having just two political parties of any consequence.

The right keeps going further right with their vision of an authoritarian Christian dictatorship (ironically with the least Christian President of the last 100 years leading the way) without wanting to compromise on anything while the left keeps going further left into socialism without wanting to compromise on anything.

Both parties do this and that when they are in power, then when they are out of power they do the exact opposite to try to derail the opposition. If someone doesn't get on board, they just try to "cancel" them.

I remember the days when people in power could disagree with some stuff from their party and not be ostracized and castigated for it. Now you better get in line or be stripped of whatever power you can have until the next election cycle comes around when the party will primary others to try to get them out of office.

Centrism is dead. This tribalism is slowly destroying the country.
By lynchburgwildcats
Posts
#626804
paradox wrote: May 30th, 2021, 9:17 am
lynchburgwildcats wrote: May 29th, 2021, 11:14 pm
paradox wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:01 pm Things have been trending left since the financial crisis of 2008--or possibly as early as 2003 Iraq War. Either way, it's no secret that things have been moving in that direction. We really can't blame millennials for considering socialism when they come out of college with huge debts and bleak job prospects. It's not their fault.
And then a little over a decade earlier when they should be entering their prime earning years, what happens? A pandemic hits just a few years into a relative economic boom period to derail things all over again. I lost the highest paid job I've ever had due to it. The job/company was terrible though so it's not all bad in that regard.

The 2020 college class graduated into a trash job market too, and 2021 to a lesser degree. The 2021 class lost valuable summer internship opportunities in 2020 as well.
It's tough. I had a similar experience in the aftermath of the 2008 crisis. There are many who still haven't fully recovered from that one.
My brother got laid off from his accounting job early during the Great Recession. He tried for years to get back in. Eventually he was too far out from having any experience or schooling for anyone to give him any consideration, so he just gave up and settled for the relative stability of a union job in grocery. Pay is mediocre but other than no company provided retirement, the benefits are pretty good.

I'm not in the give up boat (at least not yet). Toiled for years in college athletics to catch my break, by the time I got it, I was well beyond burned out and it was a pretty mediocre compensation package. So I left, got by for a year in a dead end job, got my break in marketing only to be laid off after a few months because of COVID, got by for around six months in a dead end temp job, then took a job in healthcare with mediocre pay but overall pretty good benefits.

Mostly a dead end job as far as going up the career ladder is concerned unless I want to get promoted into a job where I'm working 50-60 hours regularly, and this time for the whole year instead of just when the athletics teams are in season, so it would be even worse. And I am never going back into a job that requires that much work unless I am forced to for financial reasons. It's not a great job, but it makes me feel productive, keeps me busy, relatively low stress, I'm home on night and weekends, and OT isn't generally allowed for hourly employees, which is basically anyone but management and providers (MD, NPs, PAs, etc.).

I'm 36, I spent the vast majority of my 20s and early 30s toiling away at work with little semblance of a personal life to try to get ahead professionally and financially. At some point in time you have to face reality and get some stability, work-life balance, and job security.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#626814
Yeah, balance is important. The more responsibility you take on, the greater the likelihood that you can get lost in it. Stay flexible, work hard, and keep learning. Things usually end up working out if we stay on course. And tough times only make us stronger if our priorities are in order.
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