[JK37]

I literally know nothing more about the guy than what you have shared. I’m taking for granted that he IS known for such positions on parenting - good ones, in my opinion. But if this is the argument against him as a candidate for president of LU, it’s a weak one. Your first paragraph demeans the intelligence of all prospective students, and your second paragraph is a straw man.

[Jonathan Carone]

Folly is bound up in the heart of a child and the ROD of correction will drive it far from them. In other words God says your children desperately, desperately need to be spanked.

Amen, Hallelujah, Praise the Lord and spank your kids, okay? (laughter from audience)

And, they desperately need to be spanked and they need to be spanked often, they do. I meet people all the time ya’ know and they say, oh yeah, “There have only been maybe 4 or 5 times I’ve ever had to spank Junior.” “Really?” ‘That’s unfortunate, because unless you raised Jesus II, there were days when Junior needed to be spanked 5 times before breakfast.” If you only spanked your child 5 times, then that means almost every time they disobeyed you, you let it go.

Why do your toddlers throw fits? Because you’ve taught them that’s the way that they can control you. When instead you just need to have an all-day session where you just wear them out and they finally decide “you know what, things get worse when I do that.”

THE SELFISH SIN OF SHYNESS

Let me give you an example, a prime example. The so-called shy kid, who doesn’t shake hands at church, okay? Usually what happens is you come up, ya’ know and here I am, I’m the guest and I walk up and I’m saying hi to somebody and they say to their kid “Hey, ya’ know, say Good-morning to Dr. Baucham,” and the kid hides and runs behind the leg and here’s what’s supposed to happen. This is what we have agreed upon, silently in our culture. What’s supposed to happen is that, I’m supposed to look at their child and say, “Hey, that’s okay.” But I can’t do that. Because if I do that, then what has happened is that number one, the child has sinned by not doing what they were told to do, it’s in direct disobedience. Secondly, the parent is in sin for not correcting it, and thirdly, I am in sin because I have just told a child it’s okay to disobey and dishonor their parent in direct violation of scripture. I can’t do that, I won’t do that. I’m gonna stand there until you make ’em do what you said.

Source - includes the video the transcript was pulled from

[Jonathan Carone]

One of the issues that many Christians seem willing to ignore is the fact that sending children to American schools represents extremely poor stewardship. American students continually rank at the bottom in math, science and reading compared to other industrialized nations. That’s right, our educational system is among the world’s worst! Of course everyone says, “Our schools are different.” News flash… that’s a lie!

One of our elders taught honors math at one of the ‘best schools’ in one of the ‘best school districts’ in Texas (you know, one of those schools people lie and cheat to get their children into so that they can get a ‘better education’). His advanced geometry class was filled with a bunch of imbeciles who could barely do basic arithmetic. As a result, most of them failed their first major test. You know what happened next? The principal called him into the office and told him to make things right. One of the things he was told was to employ a grading technique called “Square root times ten.” Thus, a student who made a 49 on a test ended up with a 70 in the grade book (for those of you who went to government schools like me, that’s the square root of 49 times ten).

This is what’s happening at our ‘best’ schools. Don’t believe me? Ask a college admissions worker how many students coming from our ‘best’ schools with grade point averages hovering near 4.0 need remediation when they get to college. It’s an absolute joke. The overwhelming majority of children in our schools have a B average or above (mostly for self esteem reasons), which serves to give them and their parents a false sense of achievement. It also results in people who ‘feel really good’ about their schools.

Please don’t buy the lie. Your child’s school is probably terrible. If you really care about the stewardship of you child’s mind, don’t send them back to the worst schools in the industrialized world.

https://exodusmandate.org/public-school ... lic-school

[stokesjokes]

I was staying out because the first quotes weren’t all that egregious in the world of conservative parenting, but, I’ll chime in on that last one as a licensed therapist who works with kids. This man is training kids to be TERRIFIED of their parents. Beating a kid for being shy? You are destroying your child, not loving them. That’s straight up abusive.

[Purple Haize]

1 I’m seeing some old school parenting techniques I don’t necessarily disagree with
2- there’s literally 0 chance this guy would be considered

[Purple Haize]

I was staying out because the first quotes weren’t all that egregious in the world of conservative parenting, but, I’ll chime in on that last one as a licensed therapist who works with kids. This man is training kids to be TERRIFIED of their parents. Beating a kid for being shy? You are destroying your child, not loving them. That’s straight up abusive.

Yeah, at some point you gotta let kids be kids. I understand the larger point he’s trying to make but that wasn’t a great example

[Jonathan Carone]

That article above - written by the man himself - goes on to say that no Christian should ever attend a public school.

Isn’t that in direct opposition to what Dr. Falwell envisioned when he talked about training champions for Christ who can go into schools and make an impact?

Would we even need to have a school of education under his leadership?

Would we be willing to accept federal funding and/or maintain governmental standards since “we also have numerous warnings against allowing others to influence us intellectually, spiritually, philosophically, and morally”?

I’m not trying to attack the man’s character. I’m merely pointing out his views on education and childhood development disqualify him from leading a large university.

[thepostman]

I doubt he would be interested anyways but some of those quotes

[TH Spangler]

That article above - written by the man himself - goes on to say that no Christian should ever attend a public school.

The public school system curriculum is off the rails. The social agenda they are pushing is not healthy. Who Liberty selects to be its next chancellor will be telling.

[thepostman]

1. The demise of the public school system is greatly exaggerated. Not completely wrong but exaggerated.

2. If you remain active in your child's education they will flourish. The reason homeschooling is so successful in regards to test scores etc has very little to do with the magic of homeschooling and is more about how involved parents are with their children's education. Even in elementary school, I take time to talk to my kids about what they are learning and take an active role in the entire process. Not all kids have that and is part of the bigger problem with poor public school performance than anything else.

3. Until school choice becomes a thing (which is a much more complicated discussion than anybody would like to admit), some parents are going to have to send their kids to public school. It is alienating to those parents to have these beliefs that public schools are evil and you're a bad parent if you send your kids to those places. It doesn't set parents up with tools in how to navigate public school if that is what you choose for kids, by choice or not.

I say all this to say, it just seems like you're throwing random names out there with little consideration if they'd be interested in the position or not. From all the things I've read, he doesn't seem to be someone who would want the position. Making this entire discussion pointless. Lastly, if I am reading things correctly, he believes women should stay home until they are married and even then are not to work outside the home. That belief would be hard to have at a co-ed school.

[TH Spangler]

I think his views on women are being twisted. To be expected, because he has a clear understanding of modern day feminism. He also understands clearly the modern SJ movement. Maybe he's not interested in the job, Liberty needs him a lot more than he needs Liberty.

[TH Spangler]

[Purple Haize]

I think his views on women are being twisted. To be expected, because he has a clear understanding of modern day feminism. He also understands clearly the modern SJ movement. Maybe he's not interested in the job, Liberty needs him a lot more than he needs Liberty.

Then please clear up any confusion
1- does he believe/teach women should stay in the home till marriage
2- does he believe/teach once married women should not have jobs outside the home?

He’s your guy you should be able to answer. And no videos. No one has time for that. Not all of us are retired or work for the Air Force

[Jonathan Carone]

I believe that Mr. McCain has proven with his VP pick that he is pro-victory, not pro-family. In fact, I believe this was the anti-family pick….

First, if Mr. McCain was pro-family, he would want to see Mrs. Palin at home taking care of her five children, not headed to Washington to be consumed by the responsibilities of being second in command to the most powerful man in the world or serving as the Governor of Alaska for that matter). Let me also say that I would have the same reservations about a man with five children at home seeking the VP office. It’s not exactly a pro-family job….

Not only do I believe that a pro-family candidate would prefer to see Mrs. Palin at home taking care of her children, I believe a pro-family candidate would also avoid validating and advancing our culture’s desire to completely erase gender roles….

Source (includes video where transcript was taken from)

“Scripture does not command the woman to become independent—it commands women to be submissive. Why, because part of the curse in Genesis chapter 3 was that Eve would have the desire not only for her husband, but also for her husband’s position. It was part of the fallen nature which was a result of what happened with our first parents that women would have this desire against the order which God ordained toward independence. So for me to foster that in my daughter is really for me to flirt with that very same thing that brought Eve down.

So what I need to foster in my daughter, is not the sin to which she is prone, I need to foster the Biblical pattern that she must learn.

Instead of pursuing an independent career, Jasmin’s new objective is to join her family in fulfilling her new career of serving her father while waiting for the man God would send her. Her free and loving submission to her father is great preparation for her eventual submission to her husband. Some young man will be awfully fortunate to get this young lady."

Source

[TH Spangler]

You offer a select sniped of his much larger teaching which is 100 percent biblical. I hate to even point this out, but things went south for Sarah's family pretty quick.

Men and women's particular weakness showed up early on, in the garden.

If this group named save71 or whatever they call the movement truly knows Doc's vision from 1971 they would embrace this gentleman.

[Purple Haize]

You offer a select sniped of his much larger teaching which is 100 percent biblical. I hate to even point this out, but things went south for Sarah's family pretty quick.

Men and women's particular weakness showed up early on, in the garden.

If this group named save71 or whatever they call the movement truly knows Doc's vision from 1971 they would embrace this gentleman.

You’re not answering my very VERY simple question

[Purple Haize]

I believe that Mr. McCain has proven with his VP pick that he is pro-victory, not pro-family. In fact, I believe this was the anti-family pick….

First, if Mr. McCain was pro-family, he would want to see Mrs. Palin at home taking care of her five children, not headed to Washington to be consumed by the responsibilities of being second in command to the most powerful man in the world or serving as the Governor of Alaska for that matter). Let me also say that I would have the same reservations about a man with five children at home seeking the VP office. It’s not exactly a pro-family job….

Not only do I believe that a pro-family candidate would prefer to see Mrs. Palin at home taking care of her children, I believe a pro-family candidate would also avoid validating and advancing our culture’s desire to completely erase gender roles….

Source (includes video where transcript was taken from)

“Scripture does not command the woman to become independent—it commands women to be submissive. Why, because part of the curse in Genesis chapter 3 was that Eve would have the desire not only for her husband, but also for her husband’s position. It was part of the fallen nature which was a result of what happened with our first parents that women would have this desire against the order which God ordained toward independence. So for me to foster that in my daughter is really for me to flirt with that very same thing that brought Eve down.

So what I need to foster in my daughter, is not the sin to which she is prone, I need to foster the Biblical pattern that she must learn.

Instead of pursuing an independent career, Jasmin’s new objective is to join her family in fulfilling her new career of serving her father while waiting for the man God would send her. Her free and loving submission to her father is great preparation for her eventual submission to her husband. Some young man will be awfully fortunate to get this young lady."

Source

That first quote makes absolute sense and I can see that line of thinking. He also mentioned he felt the same about a Male making the same decision. So I’m ok with it.
The second makes me raise an eyebrow but I’m going to need more context

[thepostman]

You offer a select sniped of his much larger teaching which is 100 percent biblical. I hate to even point this out, but things went south for Sarah's family pretty quick.

Men and women's particular weakness showed up early on, in the garden.

If this group named save71 or whatever they call the movement truly knows Doc's vision from 1971 they would embrace this gentleman.

Some of his teachings appear to contradict some of fhe teachings of Doc towards the end of Doc's life in regards to women working but you claim I am not understanding his teachings and could all be cleared up if you're able to answer PH's very simple question.

[FlamesHighontheTide]

Somebody earlier said that Voddie is teaching his kids to live in terror of their father and that is the furthest thing from the truth. Nor would he condone that in any family. Does he strictly point to the father being the spiritual leader in the home, you bet he does. Not to mention he is 100% spot on when it comes to that. The Biblical model of family has been under attack for years and Voddie saw this and perceived it gettin worse and he was right.

The empowerment of women the way culture defines it is unbiblical and will do nothing but hurt the Biblical family model even more.

As much as I would love to see Dr. Baucham as or president and as needed as it is from a strictly Biblical point of view, I do not think he would ever come here simply because of how he talks about living in Zambia and raising up pastors.

[TH Spangler]

You offer a select sniped of his much larger teaching which is 100 percent biblical. I hate to even point this out, but things went south for Sarah's family pretty quick.

Men and women's particular weakness showed up early on, in the garden.

If this group named save71 or whatever they call the movement truly knows Doc's vision from 1971 they would embrace this gentleman.

Some of his teachings appear to contradict some of fhe teachings of Doc towards the end of Doc's life in regards to women working but you claim I am not understanding his teachings and could all be cleared up if you're able to answer PH's very simple question.

Did you noticed in JC sniped he said he didn't think the VP's job for a man was very family friendly, obviously this is a man who takes parenthood very seriously. That's admirable. Maybe if we sent him an email he would visit the forum and speak for himself. He seems very open and confident.

[thepostman]

That would be fine but you brought his name up so you should be able to answer PH's question. I have read more than just what Jon posted and seems to indicate he believes women should not work outside of the home.

Let me remind you of PH's question since you seem to keep avoiding it.

That would be fine but you brought his name up so you should be able go answer PH's question. I have read more than just what Jon posted and seems to indicate he believes women should not work outside of the home.

Let me remind you of PH's question since you seem to keep avoiding it.

Then please clear up any confusion
1- does he believe/teach women should stay in the home till marriage
2- does he believe/teach once married women should not have jobs outside the home?

He’s your guy you should be able to answer. And no videos. No one has time for that. Not all of us are retired or work for the Air Force

I know you have a bias against anything Jon asks or posts so we can leave him out of the discussion. Just answer PH's questions. Shouldn't be very hard for someone who thinks high enough about someone to suggest him as the next President of Liberty U.

[stokesjokes]

Somebody earlier said that Voddie is teaching his kids to live in terror of their father and that is the furthest thing from the truth. Nor would he condone that in any family. Does he strictly point to the father being the spiritual leader in the home, you bet he does. Not to mention he is 100% spot on when it comes to that. The Biblical model of family has been under attack for years and Voddie saw this and perceived it gettin worse and he was right.

The empowerment of women the way culture defines it is unbiblical and will do nothing but hurt the Biblical family model even more.

As much as I would love to see Dr. Baucham as or president and as needed as it is from a strictly Biblical point of view, I do not think he would ever come here simply because of how he talks about living in Zambia and raising up pastors.

I’m just going off of the quotes posted here, so grain of salt, but a couple are very concerning.

I do not believe Dr. Baucham’s intent is to rule through fear. I do believe that fear and resentment are the consequences of the actions he endorses in these quotes and the adversarial perspective he takes on parenting. A child who is punished, especially physically, for being shy (experiencing anxiety) is only going to have increased anxiety and fear the next time she’s in a similar situation. A child who is spanked 5 times a day is going to be terrified of his father. These are kids who end up having behavioral problems and wind up in my office- they learn to lie, they stop telling things to Dad because they know what’s coming. They have a breakdown any time they make a mistake because the consequences are going to be dire. Or they go the other way and do whatever they want because they know the consequences are coming either way.

These are kids who grow up and estranged themselves from their parents. If you want an open, loving relationship with your kids, they need to receive grace and mercy from you as well as consequences. They need to trust that they can confide in you without the threat of physical pain. I’m not completely against physical discipline, but, according to these quotes, Dr. Baucham sees it as the primary form of discipline, not a tool in a bigger toolbox for parents.

[Purple Haize]

@TH Spangler you’re getting to be as bad as ballcoach. I thought someone who flew a Sky Taxi could answer a question easier than a Team Green Traffic Cop. C’mon man. I legit don’t know the answer and am generally sympathetic to your POV. Help a brother out here

[thepostman]

If you want an open, loving relationship with your kids, they need to receive grace and mercy from you as well as consequences.

Going off topic a bit but...

I love this so much. Parenting is hard work, especially if you are remaining active in their lives. Teaching them about grace and mercy are just as important as teaching them about consequences. Sometimes people swing too much one way or the other. Myself included.

Parenting is tough man. Thanks for your insight. Much appreciated.

[Sly Fox]

It is fascinating to see the parenting insights of millennials. Corporal punishment = abuse. End of story.

Keep in mind that most have yet to experience parenting through the teen years to see the consequences of withholding discipline. It is a given that love & discipline need to go hand-in-hand. It is also a given that there are those who abuse their parenting position. So we as a society should just dismiss physical discipline altogether? Interesting take.