[BlueBlood]

puttincomputers's take is a reason why LU has to be a straight-up Christian University, not Falwell U or Republican U. While disgusting and painful, the Jerry Jr saga gives LU the best chance of becoming that.

[stokesjokes]

puttincomputers's take is a reason why LU has to be a straight-up Christian University, not Falwell U or Republican U. While disgusting and painful, the Jerry Jr saga gives LU the best chance of becoming that.

I think there are many of us who earnestly believe in Liberty's mission of training Champions for Christ, which it may now be able to do in spite of the Falwells.

[TH Spangler]

Larry Flynt weighs in:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/larry-fly ... e-falwells

I don't really disagree with anything he had to say. I said it earlier, Exodus 20:7 does say "the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain." And some translations exchange "Hold him guiltless" for "Acquit." Which kinda sounds like an exclusion from Salvation.

Mosaic Law? The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises the question are you trusting in yourself or have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all.

[ballcoach15]

I believe Jerry Jr. supported Trump for the same reason I did. Trump was only candidate who could beat Hillary Clinton, who was the worst presidential candidate in history of the world. We should thank God every day, that Hillary got beat.
I could write a book on how sorry Hillary Clinton was as a presidential candidate.

[flameshaw]

Hey everyone. I have had an account since 2013, while I was a student. I have lurked off and on over the years, but never posted much. After I graduated, I got as far away from LU as I could. I saw this downfall coming from a mile away.

I first knew something was sketchy at the 2014 Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony in front of DeMoss. For years, Jerry shot mistletoe out of a tree on the farm and would hand it out at the Christmas Convo. Well, at that 2014 lighting ceremony, Becki stated, "Remember, tomorrow Jerry is going to relax the no kissing rule for a day." Jerry immediately interjected, "is that rule still a thing?" I immediately began to question if Jerry even knew the rules placed on the students.

Before and after graduation, I worked in the Jerry Falwell Library's Archives and Special Collections. What I discovered there about the entire Falwell family (especially Sr), the history of LU, and the modern republican party completely turned me against conservatism, LU, and especially the Falwells.

Some of yal who defend LU tooth and nail should really go work in the archives sometime. What you will find there will rock you to your very marrow. Oh, and btw, I didn't even get to see everything. Jerry Jr had a tenacious grip on many of the historical records.

Jerry Sr wrote in his autobiography that God had changed Jerry's mind on racism. (He quit being a Dem when the dems adopted the desegregation platform, TRBC was whites only for years, and he preached pro-segregation sermons) Well, at the time of the book's publishing (in which he made that claim), Jerry was actively encouraging his followers to buy Krugerrands to prop up the Apartheid Government of South Africa.

Jerry Sr's activities were so egregious that many of his supporters fled and most of his ministries and projects collapsed. LU was barely afloat when Jerry died. What saved the Uni was Jerry's 10 milly life insurance policy. And now, that 10 mil has been paid to Jerry Jr to get him to leave. Ironic.

The article shared earlier that talkes about Flynt rejoicing over Jr's fall was brought up. What that article didn't mention was that Flynt and Sr became friends because they discovered they both hated feminism.

And don't forget, Sr straight up stated he didn't care if the football players were Christians, he just wanted a big time team to promote the school.

For those of you who still support Trump, but not Jr. Ask yourself, did you support Trump because he was the best candidate, or because Jr inexplicably backed him. Remember, Jr was a big Cruz guy. I'm almost certain Jr was blackmailed by Trump (re mutual fixer Cohen holding onto a photo of Becki) into supporting him. I would not be surprised if Jerry writes a tell-all book and throws Trump under the bus.

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

[puttincomputers]

puttincomputers's take is a reason why LU has to be a straight-up Christian University, not Falwell U or Republican U. While disgusting and painful, the Jerry Jr saga gives LU the best chance of becoming that.

Here's the problem. I am afraid it is impossible for LU to ever escape the political entanglements. LU was not created solely for the promotion of Christianity. It was created as an extension of Sr's worldview that merged Christianity with Conservative Right-Wing Nationalism. From the very start, Sr promoted conservative politics to the students. From the very start, LU has only offered invitations to "non-conservative" speakers due to being forced to by law. A few "non-conservatives" have accepted, much to the chagrin of the administration.

This also ties into the whole problem with how Jerry banned liberal preachers from stepping on campus simply because they were liberal. That in and of itself is a violation of the law. Not even his dad did that. When Sr's political group The Moral Majority "accidentally" sent Ted Kennedy an invitation to look around LU in the early 80's (yes, that is how closely tied the MM was with LU), Ted jumped at the chance. LU could not refuse him.

Speaking of political entanglements. There have been rumblings about Title IX investigations stemming from all this. Remember, Jr has been one of the main proponents of rolling back Title IX regulations. Trump selected him to the Education Council partly for that very reason. I guess we now know why Jr wanted those regulations rolled back.

[puttincomputers]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Did your family member talk about how Sr's father, uncle, and grandfather were gunslinging moonshiners who made the news? His uncle cause national headlines because of a manhunt after he escaped prison.

I invite you to prove any part of my post wrong, but you will have to do so with proof.

Here is Jerry Sr's own autobiography. He talks about his own racism, while trying to whitewash it. Read it and weep. https://archive.org/details/strengthfor ... r/mode/2up

[TH Spangler]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Flameshaw did you let Flynt in here.

[TH Spangler]

Maybe its Reinhold Niebuhr chiming in.

[puttincomputers]

I believe Jerry Jr. supported Trump for the same reason I did. Trump was only candidate who could beat Hillary Clinton, who was the worst presidential candidate in history of the world. We should thank God every day, that Hillary got beat.
I could write a book on how sorry Hillary Clinton was as a presidential candidate.

We actually agree about some of the Clinton corruption and Hillary's ineptitude. I didn't vote for her.

[thepostman]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Did your family member talk about how Sr's father, uncle, and grandfather were gunslinging moonshiners who made the news? His uncle cause national headlines because of a manhunt after he escaped prison.

I invite you to prove any part of my post wrong, but you will have to do so with proof.

Here is Jerry Sr's own autobiography. He talks about his own racism, while trying to whitewash it. Read it and weep. https://archive.org/details/strengthfor ... r/mode/2up

A lot of that is extremely well known.

Sr had his faults and I am far from a Sr apologists but there is a key difference between the 2. Sr, on numerous occasions, showed humility and admitted he was wrong and apologized. Jr has never shown that trait. That has always been my biggest issue with Jr and is the main reason we made it to this point.

I do agree, it is best to move on from the Falwell family for now.

[puttincomputers]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Did your family member talk about how Sr's father, uncle, and grandfather were gunslinging moonshiners who made the news? His uncle cause national headlines because of a manhunt after he escaped prison.

I invite you to prove any part of my post wrong, but you will have to do so with proof.

Here is Jerry Sr's own autobiography. He talks about his own racism, while trying to whitewash it. Read it and weep. https://archive.org/details/strengthfor ... r/mode/2up

A lot of that is extremely well known.

Sr had his faults and I am far from a Sr apologists but there is a key difference between the 2. Sr, on numerous occasions, showed humility and admitted he was wrong and apologized. Jr has never shown that trait. That has always been my biggest issue with Jr and is the main reason we made it to this point.

I do agree with you to some extent. However, it has always irked me that it seemed to take outside forces to convince Sr. to change his mind. But, at least he did so. Jr's obstinate frame of mind is more worrisome.

Btw, if anyone is wondering why Jr seems to have fallen so far from the tree, he really didn't. Jr said last year that he greatly admired his moonshining grandfather. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/us/jerry ... index.html

[Purple Haize]

@puttincomputers it’s no great secret that Falwell Sr s daddy ran moonshine. Pretty sure everyone knows that. Not sure how that is a mark against him. It’s also no big secret Falwell opposed Feminism. That Larry Flynt did as well seems irrelevant. Many times people on opposite ends of a spectrum can find themselves agreeing on a singular topic. It’s no secret that the school was cash strapped often. People would miss pay checks or run to the bank as soon as they got one before the account was empty.
It’s unfortunate that you have been left bitter and disillusioned. Jerry Sr was by no means a perfect man. None of us are. But he did an amazing thing and was a very influential person.
As for Junior. The fact that he backed Trump made absolutely 0 impact on how I was going to vote. And again it is pretty well documented that Falwell favored Cruz for most of the Primary then pulled a switch.

[thepostman]

unless his support came from blackmail, then it does kind of matter. But that hasn't been proven yet but at this point I am keeping all possibilities open.

[Purple Haize]

unless his support came from blackmail, then it does kind of matter. But that hasn't been proven yet but at this point I am keeping all possibilities open.

Does it? Why though? That’s kinda standard political practice. Opposition Research is the nicer name for it. Could it also be that Junior saw trump was going to get the nomination and just jumped on the winning wagon early ?

[Sly Fox]

First off, we love longtime lurkers who come out into the open. Consider yourself welcome to post here at any time, puttincomputers.

The challenge you are running into with your original post is that a number of the posters in this thread were involved in what you saw in the archives. Forgive me for being an outright defender of Doc, but the family history you reference in his ancestors has never been hidden. Doc would talk about it in Chapel on a frequent basis while I was in school in the '80s.

As for the defense of apartheid, I was on campus when all of that went down at the height of the Moral Majority influence. Doc publicly stated that he considered South Africa to be a key strategic military ally at the height of the Cold War. He used to tell us in Chapel that while the racism involved in Apartheid was awful, the US could have more influence in change by supporting Botha's government at a time when the then imprisoned Mandela has been openly Marxist. You should have also seen in those archives that Doc was exceptionally repentent for his mistakes in how he handled the situation.

Speaking of repentance, never will you ever find Doc denying his early racism. When I was in school he would openly apologize for his sin in the matter on just about every occassion that he could. Like EVERY opportunity. From the '80s up through the '00s the university was much more diverse that the majority of PWCs in the south. He did entire sermons on how growing up in a racist society was no excuse for modern day Christians to continue the sin.

Trying to lump Junior's outright flaunting of sin this past week with his father who spent his entire career avoiding the traps of sin that he knew would destroy the university is completely out of sync with reality.

[thepostman]

unless his support came from blackmail, then it does kind of matter. But that hasn't been proven yet but at this point I am keeping all possibilities open.

Does it? Why though? That’s kinda standard political practice. Opposition Research is the nicer name for it. Could it also be that Junior saw trump was going to get the nomination and just jumped on the winning wagon early ?

If he got blackmailed for support it just adds onto the pile of stupid things he did and how those stupid things have had effects on him.

Blackmail is also not legal. Just FYI.

[flameshaw]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Did your family member talk about how Sr's father, uncle, and grandfather were gunslinging moonshiners who made the news? His uncle cause national headlines because of a manhunt after he escaped prison.

I invite you to prove any part of my post wrong, but you will have to do so with proof.

Here is Jerry Sr's own autobiography. He talks about his own racism, while trying to whitewash it. Read it and weep. https://archive.org/details/strengthfor ... r/mode/2up

Too easy. First part is that Sr.s life insurance policy was in the $30M.
My family member was in Sr's car and given a tour of Treasure Island, in 72. He asked Sr. what he was going to do when the students started inter-racial dating. Let's just say that Sr. had zero problems with it.
Did Sr. have some views that would be considered racist today? Absolutely. Let me tell you a secret. Back in the 50's and 60's almost everyone did.
Have you seen "black only" drinking fountains and bathrooms, etc? I have. It doesn't make it right. But things change and Sr. changed with the times. There wasn't a racist bone in his body, when he started LU.
Do I know that his father was a boot-legger and had a speakeasy in town back in the day? Absolutely. What does that have to do with Jerry? Are you responsible for what your parents, family member do/did?
You say, "Jerry Sr's activities were so egregious that many of his supporters fled and most of his ministries and projects collapsed" total . I was there in 72 and for many years after. TRBC and LU and Lynchburg all grew exponentially before Sr died and of course afterward.
I could go on and on. But I see you have posted again, since I started this post. I think I can quit now. When you are so deep in the hole, one usually quits digging. smh.
I do agree with you 100% on one thing, you did get as far away from LU as you could. It is obvious.
BTW, FWIW, I am sure that several things you saw in the Archives, were donated by my family. In fact, we have a picture directly inside the front door.

[Jonathan Carone]

I'm not a Doc worshipper, but the single most important thing you could say about him was he lived his faith out. He made mistakes. He was wrong. But he owned those mistakes and wrong opinion, openly repented of the sin that caused them, and then advocated against the sin. That's all you can do.

If we're going to play a game where people aren't able to have mistakes in their past then we're all screwed.

[jinxy]

If your going to come out guns blazing like that you at least have to get the life insurance amt in the ballpark. 10 mil is only off by 21 mil or so. I lost interest after that.

[puttincomputers]

First off, we love longtime lurkers who come out into the open. Consider yourself welcome to post here at any time, puttincomputers.

The challenge you are running into with your original post is that a number of the posters in this thread were involved in what you saw in the archives. Forgive me for being an outright defender of Doc, but the family history you reference in his ancestors has never been hidden. Doc would talk about it in Chapel on a frequent basis while I was in school in the '80s.

As for the defense of apartheid, I was on campus when all of that went down at the height of the Moral Majority influence. Doc publicly stated that he considered South Africa to be a key strategic military ally at the height of the Cold War. He used to tell us in Chapel that while the racism involved in Apartheid was awful, the US could have more influence in change by supporting Botha's government at a time when the then imprisoned Mandela has been openly Marxist. You should have also seen in those archives that Doc was exceptionally repentent for his mistakes in how he handled the situation.

Speaking of repentance, never will you ever find Doc denying his early racism. When I was in school he would openly apologize for his sin in the matter on just about every occassion that he could. Like EVERY opportunity. From the '80s up through the '00s the university was much more diverse that the majority of PWCs in the south. He did entire sermons on how growing up in a racist society was no excuse for modern day Christians to continue the sin.

Trying to lump Junior's outright flaunting of sin this past week with his father who spent his entire career avoiding the traps of sin that he knew would destroy the university is completely out of sync with reality.

Thank you for the welcome.

It's good to know that Falwell purportedly repented about his racism and preached against it. Thing is, he continued othering people and acting in a racist manner well past the mid 80's.

I'm curious? Did Sr ever mention how he called Bishop Desmond Tutu "a phony" or how he said (at a party celebrating the early release of Moon) that when he went to South Africa that he "didn't meet a single black South African that wanted to get rid of Apartheid?" That's not just a mistake in judgment on how to handle getting rid of Apartheid. That is straight up defense of the system itself.

As for the Marxism charge... The weird thing is though, Sr befriended cruel dictators overseas as well. So, I am not sure how blasting one supposedly cruel system while partying with cruel and corrupt dictators, like Ferdinand Marcos who attacked the church when it disagreed with him, really put Sr on the moral high ground.

[puttincomputers]

If your going to come out guns blazing like that you at least have to get the life insurance amt in the ballpark. 10 mil is only off by 21 mil or so. I lost interest after that.

So, it was 31 mil? I have heard everything from 10 mil to 100 mil. I never did find a clear answer on that in the archives.

[Purple Haize]

You’re not a child of the 80’s, are you? Because if you were they answers to those questions would be self evident

[puttincomputers]

Hilarious. You have to be a troll. I am not a JJ fan at all, but there is more in your post that is 100% false, than anything that is true. Especially about Sr. I have a family member, who knew Sr. from the time he was a young kid, until the day he died. 90%

Did your family member talk about how Sr's father, uncle, and grandfather were gunslinging moonshiners who made the news? His uncle cause national headlines because of a manhunt after he escaped prison.

I invite you to prove any part of my post wrong, but you will have to do so with proof.

Here is Jerry Sr's own autobiography. He talks about his own racism, while trying to whitewash it. Read it and weep. https://archive.org/details/strengthfor ... r/mode/2up

Too easy. First part is that Sr.s life insurance policy was in the $30M.
My family member was in Sr's car and given a tour of Treasure Island, in 72. He asked Sr. what he was going to do when the students started inter-racial dating. Let's just say that Sr. had zero problems with it.
Did Sr. have some views that would be considered racist today? Absolutely. Let me tell you a secret. Back in the 50's and 60's almost everyone did.
Have you seen "black only" drinking fountains and bathrooms, etc? I have. It doesn't make it right. But things change and Sr. changed with the times. There wasn't a racist bone in his body, when he started LU.
Do I know that his father was a boot-legger and had a speakeasy in town back in the day? Absolutely. What does that have to do with Jerry? Are you responsible for what your parents, family member do/did?
You say, "Jerry Sr's activities were so egregious that many of his supporters fled and most of his ministries and projects collapsed" total . I was there in 72 and for many years after. TRBC and LU and Lynchburg all grew exponentially before Sr died and of course afterward.
I could go on and on. But I see you have posted again, since I started this post. I think I can quit now. When you are so deep in the hole, one usually quits digging. smh.
I do agree with you 100% on one thing, you did get as far away from LU as you could. It is obvious.
BTW, FWIW, I am sure that several things you saw in the Archives, were donated by my family. In fact, we have a picture directly inside the front door.

1. 30 Mil. Good to know. I have heard numbers from 10 mil to 100 mil.
2. I have heard the opposite about interracial dating in the early years.
3. What's your point?
4. Disagree. Do some digging in the archives.
5. Only if one promotes them as their entrepreneurial hero, as Jr did last year.
6. The OTGH and The Moral Majority collapsed and the Clintons won. How do you explain that?

It's been many years since I was in the Archives. When did that picture go up?

[puttincomputers]

If we're going to play a game where people aren't able to have mistakes in their past then we're all screwed.

Amen to that!