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#599722
flamehunter wrote: April 28th, 2020, 8:24 pm
Yacht Rock wrote: April 28th, 2020, 8:08 pm As Bing Crosby says in White Christmas, “Everybody’s got an angle.”

The sooner folks realize that, the quicker they will be able to apply critical thinking to everything they read and hear.
But the establishment never has an angle right?
Everyone includes everyone.
#599984
Gotta sell her book! Perfect timing.

For a group of people who don't trust the media, a lot of you are quick to trust anybody who justify your personal views.

One of the greatest things about technology is having so much information at our fingertips. We can learn so much about the world with just a couple clicks of a mouse.

One of the worst things about technology is having so much information at our fingertips. We can find experts to justify how we currently feel with just a couple clicks of a mouse.

🤔🤔🤔
#599985
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 6th, 2020, 8:44 pm That one is just as bad as the Bakersfield doctors. I’m embarrassed by the amount of Christians sharing it.
I’m ok with the Bakersfield Doctors actually. I don’t buy most of what they were selling but they were at least reputable and dealt with front line issues.

This video? Absolutely atrocious. Judy Mikovits has 0 credibility as a researcher. She committed the Cardinal sin and was caught blatantly manipulating data and research. Using her as a source to back up your point does more harm than good. (And I’m sympathetic to that side of the argument)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/10 ... ontroversy
thepostman liked this
#599987
Wait - she lost her credibility in the research community per the research community tipped off by an anonymous source about a slide ? Honestly - would you decline hydroxychlorquine / zinc and opt straight for the ventilator? Dozens of travel RN’s stating NY is basically murdering these victims by using vents. One of you please break it all down for us and tell us line item by line item what the lies are. Fauci doesn’t own patents ? Italy wasn’t given a 4 strand flu shot ..all science publications are to be believed and only they deem credible are to be listened to? Global warming er I mean Climate Change - discrediting never happens in the hallowed research and scientific communities does it ? any of you read her book? I am open to hearing all of the counter - quoting a scientific hit piece from the club trying to muzzle her doesn’t quite convince me especially with all the other data rolling in.
#599992
thepostman wrote: May 6th, 2020, 10:42 pm If that article from 2011 that PH shared doesn't convince you then I'm not sure anything else will.

We all want to go back to normal but using this person as your source is not a sound approach.
Here’s a Chicago Tribune article with good links in it. If you can’t replicate something (looking at you cold fusion scientists) then it’s not science.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi ... story.html

And if we are going to play “Guilty by Association “ ... I understand where Fauci is coming from and prefer him (although from from perfect) from frauds like Andrew Wakefield and Robert Kennedy Jr whom Miskovits allies herself with
#599994
I've read so many articles they're starting to run together. But I believe I read the so called bat woman was doing research on the virus in connection with UNC, with a connection to an Army lab in MD. It was deamed so dangerous it was stop in the US. Then I believe I read she returned to China, and Fauci use his postion to fund her research there. I could have it wrong.
#599996
TH Spangler wrote: May 6th, 2020, 11:28 pm I've read so many articles they're starting to run together. But I believe I read the so called bat woman was doing research on the virus in connection with UNC, with a connection to an Army lab in MD. It was deamed so dangerous it was stop in the US. Then I believe I read she returned to China, and Fauci use his postion to fund her research there. I could have it wrong.
Here’s the problem with that line of reasoning.
The people who generally buy into that line are also the ones who think the Virus threat is overblown. So it’s odd to say on one hand “it is just a flu” while on the other hand saying “the US Army found it too dangerous and stopped their research”
There was a UNC researcher guy arrested that people were saying sold the Virus secrets to China but I then saw several reports that said it was for a myriad of other things
As for your Fauci connection. It seems quite a stretch to say Fauci is using tax payer dollars to pay a Researcher in a large Asian Country to continue research in that Country on a Virus that was deemed to dangerous by the US Army and cut from funding in this Country

Some of that might be true, but that’s what makes Conspiracy Theories so compelling
#599998
I think the issue is it's really impossible to vet all information. Project Veritas does enough through work to be used in lawsuits. They have created a seed of doubt in me that questions just about everything on all sides. Most of us consider it a given that the political bureaucracy that has infected every agency has bleed into other fields, but we don't ever want to say it out loud.
Do any of us doubt that things like tech, pharma, academia, defense, or prisons are immune to that kind of corruption or even believe that they aren't already infected?

I would speculate that most would agree with that. And we justifiably have doubts about anything that comes from any news outlet.

So when we can't trust anything, how do we know what to trust?

She lost her reputation. She addressed that in the video. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, but how do we find it and make educated decisions for ourselves and our families?
TH Spangler liked this
#599999
Here's a link to the Army lab shutdown.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/heal ... azard.html

Missteps have occurred at other government laboratories, including those at the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health. And in 2009, research at the institute in Fort Detrick was suspended because it was storing pathogens not listed in its database. The army institute also employed Bruce E. Ivins, a microbiologist who was a leading suspect — but who was never charged — in the anthrax mailings in 2001 that killed five people. Dr. Ivins died in 2008, apparently by suicide
#600002
Purple Haize wrote: May 7th, 2020, 7:24 am
TH Spangler wrote: May 6th, 2020, 11:28 pm I've read so many articles they're starting to run together. But I believe I read the so called bat woman was doing research on the virus in connection with UNC, with a connection to an Army lab in MD. It was deamed so dangerous it was stop in the US. Then I believe I read she returned to China, and Fauci use his postion to fund her research there. I could have it wrong.
Here’s the problem with that line of reasoning.
The people who generally buy into that line are also the ones who think the Virus threat is overblown. So it’s odd to say on one hand “it is just a flu” while on the other hand saying “the US Army found it too dangerous and stopped their research”
There was a UNC researcher guy arrested that people were saying sold the Virus secrets to China but I then saw several reports that said it was for a myriad of other things
As for your Fauci connection. It seems quite a stretch to say Fauci is using tax payer dollars to pay a Researcher in a large Asian Country to continue research in that Country on a Virus that was deemed to dangerous by the US Army and cut from funding in this Country

Some of that might be true, but that’s what makes Conspiracy Theories so compelling
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... uhan-labo/

""And then he accused the prior Team Obama of sending $3.7 million to the lab in 2014 — at a time when that same Team Obama had banned the funding of any lab that was involved in virus experimentation.""

I believe the bat woman departed UNC in 2014?

In 2014, Shi Zhengli collaborated on additional gain-of-function experiments led by Ralph S. Baric of the University of North Carolina, which showed that two critical mutations that the MERS coronavirus possesses allow it to bind to the human ACE2 receptor,[12] and that SARS had the potential to re-emerge from coronaviruses circulating in bat populations in the wild.[13] In 2014, the US National Institutes of Health placed a moratorium on SARS, MERS, and influenza gain-of-function studies, due to concerns about the risks vs. benefits of such research,[14][15] lifting this moratorium in 2017 after the creation of a new regulatory framework.[16] Shi Zhengli and her colleague Cui Jie led a team that sampled thousands of horseshoe bats throughout China.
#600027
I don’t know if we can embed from Facebook on here, so I’ll just copy and paste. This is from a doctor at Vanderbilt about the Plandemic video:
First, background: I’m a physician (specifically a board-certified pathologist, which includes microbiology and laboratory medicine) with a master’s degree in epidemiology.

In the last day or two, several friends have shared or posted about a video “documentary” called “Plandemic”. The film depicts now-discredited former researcher Judy Mikovits who shares a plausible-sounding narrative about the current pandemic. The problem here is that nearly all of her scientific statements are demonstrably false. If you have more to add to this list, or credible data to the contrary, please start a discussion. I suspect there are many more false claims in this video, but these are just the ones that stuck out to me as a physician with epidemiology training.

- She states “There is no vaccine for any RNA virus that works." Incorrect: Polio, hepatitis A, measles, to name a few. (Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4763971/)
- Her retracted paper was actually not about vaccines at all, even though she insinuates that it was. (Here is the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19815723)
- She states that Ebola could not infect humans until it was engineered to do so in her laboratory. This is false. (Here is an article describing an outbreak of Ebola in 1976, long before Dr. Mikovits was conducting research: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27357339)
- Likewise, many other zoonotic viruses have been shown to gain mutations that allow them to infect humans. This would not be some kind of new, crazy idea. We actually predicted it years ago: we just didn’t know exactly which virus or when it would occur. (Here is an article from 2015 discussing the likely emergence of future coronavirus pandemics: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687304/ )
- She states that the US was working with Wuhan to study coronaviruses years ago, like it’s a “gotcha” moment: yes, of course we were doing this – Wuhan is a coronavirus hotspot and it makes sense to study this family of viruses where it naturally occurs. (Same article as above: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687304/ )
- She states that COPD lungs are identical to COVID-19 lungs. As a pathologist, this is ludicrous – any practicing physician would be able to tell COPD from COVID-19, both clinically and histologically. (One article discussing an overview of tools for diagnosing COVID19 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144809/, one about CT specifically https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191895/, and one about histology specifically https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7184436/ )
- The statement taken out of context from the CDC death certificate recommendation reads in full “In cases where a definitive diagnosis of COVID-19 cannot be made, but is suspected or likely (the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed”. In these instances, certifiers should use their best judgment in determining if a COVID-19 diagnosis was likely. Testing for COVID-19 should be conducted whenever possible.”. My physician colleagues are not being pressured to put COVID-19 on death certificates when it should not be there. (Here is the actual document with instructions for
filling out death certificates from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf )
- The idea that physicians are incorrectly diagnosing COVID-19 due to financial incentive is also ridiculous. Medicare sometimes bundles payments for some conditions (i.e. if you have a heart attack, medicare may pay XX for your treatment) – it’s possible the hospital could get paid $13,000 for your COVID-19 admission, but do you know what that’s based on? The fact that the average cost of a hospital admission for a respiratory condition is $13,297. (I can’t post a scientific study here, since this isn’t a scientific fact, but this article describes the procedure in detail: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 000638001/ )
- She states that hydroxychloroquine has been “extensively studied in this family of viruses” – in fact, it has not been studied well in coronaviruses. It HAS been studied in malaria, which is not a virus. (Here is the one study that was performed that people like to cite, and it is an in vitro study (not in humans), of SARS (not COVID-19), and chloroquine (not hydroxychloroquine): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/ ). And yes, it is considered an essential medicine for the treatment of malaria. Not for coronaviruses.
- Furthermore, the data on hydroxychloroquine are much weaker than they originally appeared: the small study that was highly publicized was not a randomized controlled trial, and the only patients who died were those who received hydroxychloroquine (and these were EXCLUDED FROM ANALYSIS!). This is terrible science. Even so, we want to investigate all possible treatments, so controlled trials are being conducted on hydroxychloroquine right now. (A summary of the current evidence we have from published and ongoing trials: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/hydroxych ... s-tell-us/)
- She insinuates that there is a hydroxychloroquine shortage as a result of reduced production. In fact, there is a shortage because people who take this medication regularly are stockpiling it (e.g., receiving prescriptions for 90 days in stead of 30) and because physicians are using it for COVID19 patients because they have nothing else to try. (No published study here to cite, unfortunately).
- “All flu vaccines contain coronaviruses”. Nope, absolutely false. (In fact, it’s so false based on the way vaccines are made that there are no studies specifically stating this claim. It would be like trying to conduct a study to examine whether humans can live with zero oxygen. Nope, we can’t. No study needed.)
- The ideas that sheltering in place somehow harms your immune system or that you may reactivate a virus in yourself by wearing a mask have been thoroughly debunked in other posts and I won’t get into the details here. Both national societies of emergency medicine have condemned the statements of these doctors, one of whom is not board-certified. (Please refer to Dr. Kasten’s post and others about these)

- Lastly, private companies removing false information from their platforms does not represent repression or promotion of propaganda. It’s helping to promote the spread of sound scientific information. If you think lies should be permitted to circulate freely alongside the truth with the intention of reaching people who won’t be able to tell the difference, you are part of the problem.
#600028
So many different opinions out there on what caused this and who is at fault and is there a conspiracy going on.

I am literally at the point where I simply do not care anymore because of knowing this absolute fact that can never be anything but true. GOD IS NOT CORRUPTED AND THERE ARE NO CONSPIRACY THEORIES WHEN IT COMES TO GOD. THERE HAS BEEN, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT TRUTH WHEN IT COMES TO THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.

If you guys get an opportunity go out and listen for free to John Piper's new book "Coronavirus and Christ."
#600029
Jonathan Interesting opinion. Good Read.

I'm wondering about when and where these studies were taking place. Obama outlawed them in 2014 because it was so dangerous. After changing guidelines they started researching again in 2017. It sounds like there might have been some illegal funding after 2014 and before 2017.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... uhan-labo/

I have a cousin that was a PhD research scholar at UNC from 2008 to 2014. Same time period. I'm tempted to ask about it :?:
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