If roundball is your blood, this is the place to discuss the Flames as they move into the Ritchie McKay era for the 2nd time.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By rogers3
Membership Days Posts
#594339
oldflame wrote: January 20th, 2020, 10:05 pm
Purple Haize wrote: January 20th, 2020, 9:33 pm After the new basketball arena opens it would be a bad decision to ever host a home game in the Vines center. It then becomes at best a neutral site game.
I would be surprised if Ritchie's new contract does not contain a clause saying we agree to play all home games in the new arena once it is completed.
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
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By Cider Jim
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#594340
thepostman wrote: January 20th, 2020, 10:12 pm I just can't wait for the new arena to open. It looks like it'll be beautiful and once people hear how LOUD it is, all this other stuff will go away.
Ballcoach will need to bring his NASCAR headphones to drown out the noise. :nono :oldhag
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By JK37
Membership Days Posts
#594341
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm
oldflame wrote: January 20th, 2020, 10:05 pm
Purple Haize wrote: January 20th, 2020, 9:33 pm After the new basketball arena opens it would be a bad decision to ever host a home game in the Vines center. It then becomes at best a neutral site game.
I would be surprised if Ritchie's new contract does not contain a clause saying we agree to play all home games in the new arena once it is completed.
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
Hold that reminder until we’ve won as many national championships as Villanova + are located in a major metro area as large as Philadelphia.

Next.
By rogers3
Membership Days Posts
#594344
JK37 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 12:19 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
Hold that reminder until we’ve won as many national championships as Villanova + are located in a major metro area as large as Philadelphia.

Next.
Wow, savvy comeback...except I am not suggesting we sell out 21000 or even 6500 every game. I am surprised at the shortsighted vision for this program. The funny thing is that it wasn't long ago when folks were crowing about the continued expansion of the stadium. Reality is that LU is more likely to energize locals to come to see basketball than football and it has been like that for years. Its rather be less insular and see attendance that builds than cap it at what would be today's top capacity.
Other than you just wanting to be right and be able to pronounce your readiness for "Next," what is the flaw in my line of thinking?
By Ill flame
Posts
#594345
There's nothing stopping them from moving back to Vines permanently down the road when we can consistently get 6000+ people to the games.. They still needed a smaller arena for volleyball and women's basketball anyway.
For the foreseeable future the arena is a smart step in the right direction for this program though.
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By thepostman
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#594346
rogers3 wrote:
JK37 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 12:19 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
Hold that reminder until we’ve won as many national championships as Villanova + are located in a major metro area as large as Philadelphia.

Next.
Wow, savvy comeback...except I am not suggesting we sell out 21000 or even 6500 every game. I am surprised at the shortsighted vision for this program. The funny thing is that it wasn't long ago when folks were crowing about the continued expansion of the stadium. Reality is that LU is more likely to energize locals to come to see basketball than football and it has been like that for years. Its rather be less insular and see attendance that builds than cap it at what would be today's top capacity.
Other than you just wanting to be right and be able to pronounce your readiness for "Next," what is the flaw in my line of thinking?
The flaw in your thinking would be Ian and RM have stated over and over again that there is no plans to play games in the Vines after this season. Also, as a whole, attendance to live events is getting smaller so the appeal of smaller, more intimate venue with some nice amenities becoming more of the trend.

If we continue on our path with basketball then the demand my warrant moving back to the Vines but for the foreseeable future the new arena will be perfect for where we are.
By ballcoach15
Posts
#594347
I think the parking situation has kept fans away from Vines Center for years. The new parking garage will improve basketball parking. But we'll never know how much of an effect it will have on attendance once we're in new arena.
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By BlueBlood
Posts
#594349
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
I'll admit, I am a bit surprised that some on here seem extremely happy to cap attendance at 4000 for every game. I'd love to see LU use the new arena for most games, but to strategically move some games back to Vines. There is something to be said for school spirit to occasionally have a game that the school advertises as a "be there" event. Not all kids are wired the same. Some kids aren't going to go to every home game, but if the school is pushing a big event, they will make it and will cheer their brains out. I think there is fear that you may permanently lose those kids and those special atmospheres by capping at 4000.

There are numerous schools that move the 'bigger games" to a bigger venues. Usually that means moving the game miles from campus. LU is lucky in that the other venue is right next door. I hope the school at some point reverses its position and decides to occasionally utilize it.
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By Ill flame
Posts
#594351
Where the program is now those big games are few and far between (maybe 2-3 a year). Those big games could help drive demand for season tickets so people will be guaranteed tickets for those big games. A big reason people buy season tickets for pro teams is so they will have access to postseason and other big games.
We've only had 2 games with crowds of 4,500 or more this season and 1 last year. We can have this conversation again when demand grows more.
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By thepostman
Membership Days Posts Custom Group
#594355
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to be in the Vines in front of a full, enthusiastic crowd every home game but the reality is that has been so rare in the last 20 years that this route only makes sense.
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By Geraldos Mustache
Posts
#594358
rogers3 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 8:16 am
JK37 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 12:19 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
Hold that reminder until we’ve won as many national championships as Villanova + are located in a major metro area as large as Philadelphia.

Next.
Wow, savvy comeback...except I am not suggesting we sell out 21000 or even 6500 every game. I am surprised at the shortsighted vision for this program. The funny thing is that it wasn't long ago when folks were crowing about the continued expansion of the stadium. Reality is that LU is more likely to energize locals to come to see basketball than football and it has been like that for years. Its rather be less insular and see attendance that builds than cap it at what would be today's top capacity.
Other than you just wanting to be right and be able to pronounce your readiness for "Next," what is the flaw in my line of thinking?
There is logic to the concept of capping attendance at 4000. It's called...

"Law of Supply and Demand".

What's better?
#1 - 5000 people in a 9000 seat arena - most of whom were given free tickets
#2 - 4000 people in a 4000 seat arena - most of whom paid and were competing for seats?

I'll take the lower attendance and the $$$ every time.

Liberty is wisely "reducing supply" of seats which will "increase demand" for the product. This will result in higher ticket prices and revenue for the Basketball program.
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By JK37
Membership Days Posts
#594359
rogers3 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 8:16 am
JK37 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 12:19 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm
I'm sure McKay will be ready to bolt if we are scheduling several P5s and the games were played in front of a larger crowd than 4000. It would suck if we had 8000 at games 5 or 6 years from now.
Sorry, but a lot crowd of 4000 doesn't Trump a loud crowd of 8-9000 in the average basketball fan's book.
I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
Hold that reminder until we’ve won as many national championships as Villanova + are located in a major metro area as large as Philadelphia.

Next.
Wow, savvy comeback...except I am not suggesting we sell out 21000 or even 6500 every game. I am surprised at the shortsighted vision for this program. The funny thing is that it wasn't long ago when folks were crowing about the continued expansion of the stadium. Reality is that LU is more likely to energize locals to come to see basketball than football and it has been like that for years. Its rather be less insular and see attendance that builds than cap it at what would be today's top capacity.
Other than you just wanting to be right and be able to pronounce your readiness for "Next," what is the flaw in my line of thinking?
I don’t buy this yet — not until I’m shown quantifiable proof. But I’m genuinely curious, so I’ll wait.

I can’t help it I’m right. Others have already enumerated the flawS in your thinking, so I don’t need to.

We may disagree on vision, that’s ok. LU has tried it your way with Vines for decades. How’s that working out?
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By Purple Haize
Membership Days Posts Group
#594362
ballcoach15 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 9:33 am I think the parking situation has kept fans away from Vines Center for years. The new parking garage will improve basketball parking. But we'll never know how much of an effect it will have on attendance once we're in new arena.
Write down the date I am in 100% agreement on this. Cause it’s applied to me several times
By tyndal23
Posts Group
#594365
Ha - 300 or more fan bases would kill to have the main contention point being whether a brand new arena is large enough, or if the old 10k arena will ever be needed. Vines in current shape I would prefer the new arena and smaller crowd even if playing # 1 team - BUT - once the roof is lowered - Vines might very well be extremely loud and a very intimidating place for 8k - we had 7800 for opener and very close to that vs Lipscomb - add in parking garage relevance per Purple / BC and a top 30 team - I think anyone saying never is a bit foolish. I know the $ comes from season tix - but by far the biggest empty section every game is season ticket holder section - i would limit season tix to 400 max, bump student to 3k and have 600 as one off per game tickets and jack the prices up on season and set the per game based on market ( are students in town - opponent level ).
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By Ill flame
Posts
#594366
Out of the 4000 seats I would like to see no more than 500 available for general admission. Have 2000ish for student and 1500-2000 for season ticket holders. To solve the problem of season ticket holders not showing up I would like to see the school set up some sort of program to help them sell the tickets for games they won't go to. If more people want season tickets than are available give them to the people that use the tickets the most.
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By thepostman
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#594367
Yeah, never is a really long time. I am sure at some point we will play some games in the Vines. It just won't be anytime soon.
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By Geraldos Mustache
Posts
#594368
Would be cool to have just ONE game every year that is a designated "Vines" game. Perhaps it's a marquis opponent? Doing just one game per year in the Vines would automatically make it special, unique and a community effort to fill the Vines to capacity.

Otherwise, I am super excited about the newer, smaller venue with potential to "sell out" often and create a very loud game atmosphere.
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By Chippy
Membership Days Posts
#594369
BlueBlood wrote: January 21st, 2020, 9:46 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
I'll admit, I am a bit surprised that some on here seem extremely happy to cap attendance at 4000 for every game. I'd love to see LU use the new arena for most games, but to strategically move some games back to Vines. There is something to be said for school spirit to occasionally have a game that the school advertises as a "be there" event. Not all kids are wired the same. Some kids aren't going to go to every home game, but if the school is pushing a big event, they will make it and will cheer their brains out. I think there is fear that you may permanently lose those kids and those special atmospheres by capping at 4000.

There are numerous schools that move the 'bigger games" to a bigger venues. Usually that means moving the game miles from campus. LU is lucky in that the other venue is right next door. I hope the school at some point reverses its position and decides to occasionally utilize it.
Duquesne (15-2) has been using PPG Arena that seats 19K when they play high profile teams (eg. Pitt, Dayton, etc.) versus their arena that seats 4,390 though their enrollment is @ 5-6K.
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By cruzan_flame13
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#594370
Chippy wrote: January 21st, 2020, 2:04 pm
BlueBlood wrote: January 21st, 2020, 9:46 am
rogers3 wrote: January 20th, 2020, 11:39 pm I'd also remind the folks that are so committed to NEVER seeing a game in the Vines anymore that Villanova utilizes two venues (capacities if 6500 & 21000) for their games, with little impact on their home court advantage.
I'll admit, I am a bit surprised that some on here seem extremely happy to cap attendance at 4000 for every game. I'd love to see LU use the new arena for most games, but to strategically move some games back to Vines. There is something to be said for school spirit to occasionally have a game that the school advertises as a "be there" event. Not all kids are wired the same. Some kids aren't going to go to every home game, but if the school is pushing a big event, they will make it and will cheer their brains out. I think there is fear that you may permanently lose those kids and those special atmospheres by capping at 4000.

There are numerous schools that move the 'bigger games" to a bigger venues. Usually that means moving the game miles from campus. LU is lucky in that the other venue is right next door. I hope the school at some point reverses its position and decides to occasionally utilize it.
Duquesne (15-2) has been using PPG Arena that seats 19K when they play high profile teams (eg. Pitt, Dayton, etc.) versus their arena that seats 4,390 though their enrollment is @ 5-6K.
We are not located in Pittsburgh though, so the Liberty arena will fit just right.
By Dalegarz1
Posts
#594372
I would love to see the day when students are camped out in front of the arena just to get a seat. We are so far from that kind of enthusiasm that it seems almost comical to imagine. Having said that, a run to the sweet sixteen would certainly help. I do believe the atmosphere in the new arena will draw more students. They certainly aren't tripping over one another to support a team that is 19-1.
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By cruzan_flame13
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#594374
Dalegarz1 wrote: January 21st, 2020, 2:40 pm I would love to see the day when students are camped out in front of the arena just to get a seat. We are so far from that kind of enthusiasm that it seems almost comical to imagine. Having said that, a run to the sweet sixteen would certainly help. I do believe the atmosphere in the new arena will draw more students. They certainly aren't tripping over one another to support a team that is 19-1.
That's true. Students want the exposure; the idea of being on tv. We are not there but we can get there sooner than we think. I understand that some of you guys are hesitant and worried a little, but we can all agree that we believe Ian McCaw will help us get there or near that goal. That's what counts the most at this moment. I will also add that the new Arena will get more locals than usual just because it's new and have more features. If we continue to develop ad win, those new or more present faces might want to stick around and not waste these moments. Just a thought.
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By Geraldos Mustache
Posts
#594378
Have there been any seating diagrams released for the new 4000 seat? YES!
Here are architectural renderings of Liberty Arena...
https://www.odell.com/portfolio/liberty ... ity-arena/

I counted the seats behind the goals. The center section is 17 rows of 16 seats = 272.
Right section seats 163
Left section seats 165
Total seating behind the goal = 600

I would love it if those seats were a designated student section for students who are official members of a Basketball fan club with perks and privileges from Liberty Athletics.

Getting students to participate in a highly recognized student organization fan club is great for student spirit, but this translates as they alumni and loyal Liberty supporters for years and decades to come. I imagine having the contact information on this students through college and follow them into the marketplace with regular communication and updates about Flames athletics. These will be your most supportive alumni in the future. Build the tradition now and watch it grow.
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By Geraldos Mustache
Posts
#594379
In the new Liberty Arena, there is also a corner section above what appears to be an opening for players/equipment to enter/exit the arena. This corner section is 6 rows with a total of 105 seats. This would be a great area to locate the student pep band. Just need to make sure Ballcoach is not sitting next to the band - could get LOUD.
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By Jonathan Carone
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#594381
Geraldos Mustache wrote: January 21st, 2020, 4:41 pm Getting students to participate in a highly recognized student organization fan club is great for student spirit, but this translates as they alumni and loyal Liberty supporters for years and decades to come. I imagine having the contact information on this students through college and follow them into the marketplace with regular communication and updates about Flames athletics. These will be your most supportive alumni in the future. Build the tradition now and watch it grow.
You're describing two different things here:

1) Highly organized student organization fan club

2) Organization that will follow students into the marketplace with regular communication

When the Student Flames Club started in 2006, we tried to do both of those things. I wanted the first thing. The athletic department wanted the second. 19-year-old a-hole Jonathan clashed big time with the athletic department there.

A couple years later, we started the LUnatics to do #1 and the SFC tried to do #2. We'd work together some, but the goals seemed to compete a little bit.

SGA brought back The LUnatics this year, but I don't know how much they've done with it but you can see their maroon shirts scattered in the stands.

Starting an organization to lead the student section at Liberty is such a hard thing because our culture is so dorm dominant. Everyone wants to do things with their hall. Getting different halls to work together along with commuters is a very difficult thing to do.
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