[ballcoach15]

I have always thought the Bible was straight forward. No need to try to figure out what it says. It's right there in print. Too many people try to change what the Bible says, thinking it will "hide" their sins.

[rtb72]

This is not a hill to die on one way or another but there is more scripture backing women can't be lead pastors and none saying that they can. Being a pastor is very different than being a missionary or Sunday school teacher or youth leader or children's ministry leader, or serving on various committees. I have no problem with churches that have female pastors by the way, I have served along side female pastors. Senior pastors I believe is a different story. This is not a salvation issue and I have no problem with people coming down on different sides of this but ball coach doesn't need to be pilled on over this

It is simplest form....

So where does it define senior pastor, committee member, women can be missionaries and sunday school teachers, but not pastors?


*Pastor*: One who feeds the flock; shepherd...pas'-ter (ro`eh; poimen; literally, a helper, or feeder of the sheep.

*Bible Tools (2020) Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology. Salem Media Group. https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/pastor/.
[/quote a pastor is not definined as someone who feeds the flock, everyone knows what a pastor is

Just using the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology for my study, interpretation, and debate. I'm just giving you how it defines it. If one "pastors a church".....are they not leading a group of believers?

[Tnobes]

I think what you mean is they don't interpret the Bible the way you do. That is much different.

Do they teach Jesus is the messiah and through him we can have salvation? Last I checked they do so therefore that makes them a Christian denomination. I disagree with some of their doctrinal conclusions but that is much different than not being a Christian denomination.

You must define the word Christian different than I do. I don't define Christian simply as believing in Jesus. If someone tells me that they are a Christian that tells me absolutely nothing about them, they might as well say they like cheese

So to be a Christian I must believe everything that you do? That sounds awfully like adding to the gospel of Christ which I know is not your intent but it sure sounds like what you are doing.

The bottom line of the gospel is Christ is the Messiah and our savior. Anything else you add to that to consider something "Christian" or not is coming from you not the gospel of Christ.

No, to be a Christian you need to believe what Jesus taught in the Bible, it's like saying you believe math but you don't believe 2+2=4. I don't determine who is Christian, the Bible does. Frankly I don't care if people believe in God or not, it's our job to tell them but their response is on them, I'm sad like God if someone is going to hell but we are not junior holy spirits, but I don't like people saying they are Christ followers but then simultaneously saying they don't believe what the Bible says. Now let's get back to topics that matter like the football program.

[Jonathan Carone]

And I know several who would say the opposite. That's why I put zero stock in what anybody says. I look at what the text says, not what somebody says it "means". God don't stutter

For someone who claimed people who understood different than you were arrogant, that's an awfully arrogant statement to make.

[Tnobes]

It is simplest form....

So where does it define senior pastor, committee member, women can be missionaries and sunday school teachers, but not pastors?


*Pastor*: One who feeds the flock; shepherd...pas'-ter (ro`eh; poimen; literally, a helper, or feeder of the sheep.

*Bible Tools (2020) Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology. Salem Media Group. https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/pastor/.
[/quote a pastor is not definined as someone who feeds the flock, everyone knows what a pastor is

Just using the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology for my study, interpretation, and debate. I'm just giving you how it defines it. If one "pastors a church".....are they not leading a group of believers?

Leading a group of people like in a home church is not being a pastor as anyone would define it, it's like calling a VBS volunteer a pastor.

[Jonathan Carone]

Now let's get back to topics that matter like the football program.

This is rich.

[Tnobes]

And I know several who would say the opposite. That's why I put zero stock in what anybody says. I look at what the text says, not what somebody says it "means". God don't stutter

For someone who claimed people who understood different than you were arrogant, that's an awfully arrogant statement to make.

Never made that statement, but I've read your posts on other topics and I Know your style. I said claiming everyone before the year 1800 was wrong as you did is arrogant

[Purple Haize]

And I know several who would say the opposite. That's why I put zero stock in what anybody says. I look at what the text says, not what somebody says it "means". God don't stutter

For someone who claimed people who understood different than you were arrogant, that's an awfully arrogant statement to make.

Never made that statement, but I've read your posts on other topics and I Know your style. I said claiming everyone before the year 1800 was wrong as you did is arrogant

What is significant about 1800?

[rtb72]

Just using the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology for my study, interpretation, and debate. I'm just giving you how it defines it. If one "pastors a church".....are they not leading a group of believers?

Leading a group of people like in a home church is not being a pastor as anyone would define it, it's like calling a VBS volunteer a pastor.

[thepostman]

I was much happier when this thread when we were discussing women in leadership roles. I am disappointed that it has deteriorated to questioning ones salvation. There are healthier ways to have theological discussions, in fact I had healthier discussions when I was in college with college students which is just insane.

[Purple Haize]

I have always thought the Bible was straight forward. No need to try to figure out what it says. It's right there in print. Too many people try to change what the Bible says, thinking it will "hide" their sins.

Which is why you seem to always change your position

[Tnobes]

I was much happier when this thread when we were discussing women in leadership roles. I am disappointed that it has deteriorated to questioning ones salvation. There are healthier ways to have theological discussions, in fact I had healthier discussions when I was in college with college students which is just insane.

Who questioned anyone's salvation?

[rtb72]

I was much happier when this thread when we were discussing women in leadership roles. I am disappointed that it has deteriorated to questioning ones salvation. There are healthier ways to have theological discussions, in fact I had healthier discussions when I was in college with college students which is just insane.

You're right. Getting emotionally invested tends to diminish any dialogue. Moving on....

[Tnobes]

For someone who claimed people who understood different than you were arrogant, that's an awfully arrogant statement to make.

Never made that statement, but I've read your posts on other topics and I Know your style. I said claiming everyone before the year 1800 was wrong as you did is arrogant

What is significant about 1800?

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

[Tnobes]

Now let's get back to topics that matter like the football program.

This is rich.

It's called a joke

[Tnobes]

I have always thought the Bible was straight forward. No need to try to figure out what it says. It's right there in print. Too many people try to change what the Bible says, thinking it will "hide" their sins.

Which is why you seem to always change your position

When did he change his position?

[rtb72]

Never made that statement, but I've read your posts on other topics and I Know your style. I said claiming everyone before the year 1800 was wrong as you did is arrogant

What is significant about 1800?

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

That's not what he said.

[Tnobes]

I have always thought the Bible was straight forward. No need to try to figure out what it says. It's right there in print. Too many people try to change what the Bible says, thinking it will "hide" their sins.

They make God in their own image so he agrees with what they believe. It's convenient for them, God made the Bible so you could hand it to a 10 year old in Africa and they could understand it

[thepostman]

I was much happier when this thread when we were discussing women in leadership roles. I am disappointed that it has deteriorated to questioning ones salvation. There are healthier ways to have theological discussions, in fact I had healthier discussions when I was in college with college students which is just insane.

Who questioned anyone's salvation?

You did. Again, it may not have been your intention but it is what you are doing when you claim certain denominations aren't "Christian" because they believe slightly differently than you.

[Tnobes]

What is significant about 1800?

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

That's not what he said.

So he didn't say that the author was not Paul?

[rtb72]

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

That's not what he said.

So he didn't say that the author was not Paul?

No he didn't. He mentioned the "study of who the author of Hebrews MIGHT HAVE BEEN....he never said anyone was wrong.

[Purple Haize]

Never made that statement, but I've read your posts on other topics and I Know your style. I said claiming everyone before the year 1800 was wrong as you did is arrogant

What is significant about 1800?

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

No they didn’t. Where did you come up with that? There was a moderately sized dispute between the Eastern and Western church about its author validity and relation to the “Other Hebrews”

[Tnobes]

I was much happier when this thread when we were discussing women in leadership roles. I am disappointed that it has deteriorated to questioning ones salvation. There are healthier ways to have theological discussions, in fact I had healthier discussions when I was in college with college students which is just insane.

Who questioned anyone's salvation?

You did. Again, it may not have been your intention but it is what you are doing when you claim certain denominations aren't "Christian" because they believe slightly differently than you.

I actually said that there are Methodists who are going to heaven but that the CHURCH is not teaching Christianity. So I didn't question anybody's salvation, only God knows that. I can question their teaching and if it aligns with what Jesus taught and it doesn't.

[Tnobes]

What is significant about 1800?

Before 1800 everyone believed Paul was the author of Hebrews, John carone or whatever his name is said that they were all wrong

No they didn’t. Where did you come up with that? There was a moderately sized dispute between the Eastern and Western church about its author validity and relation to the “Other Hebrews”

[rtb72]

Who questioned anyone's salvation?

You did. Again, it may not have been your intention but it is what you are doing when you claim certain denominations aren't "Christian" because they believe slightly differently than you.

I actually said that there are Methodists who are going to heaven but that the CHURCH is not teaching Christianity. So I didn't question anybody's salvation, only God knows that. I can question their teaching and if it aligns with what Jesus taught and it doesn't.

Just like a particular Baptist Church, Presbyterian Church...you can find all kinds of interpretations of the Bible within a denomination. The Church proper is not Methodist, Baptist, or any other denomination....it is a body of believers. Your assertion was broad and could be inferred as exactly what the Postman suggested. How is the "church" as you refer to it different than those that are believers within it? If I don't agree with the contextual teaching of a particular congregation or "church" as it were....I would go where I was saturated with believers who worship God the way I am personally moved and led to do so. Just because I practice at a Methodist church...doesn't make me a non Bible believing member. I am a born again Christian who practices with other believers. I don't care what the denomination is. Before moving, I was in a Baptist church, among other believers who were led similarly to me. To the original point at hand....even within the Global Methodist church...there are large numbers of affiliated churches that have very diverse interpretations of what the Bible says on social issues and other matters. Whether I believe or like their interpretation is not going to lead me to say there is a segment of them that are non-believing or condemned, it just means I will choose to worship with other groups of believers in another way.