[tyndal23]

Comparing us to anyone is laughable - we are completely unique. Bottom line we have 2 options until a conference invites us. Independent as a G5 or Independent as a P5 Equivalent. If you choose option 1 - no more than 2 FBS games a year and schedule as weak as possible for potential 10 win seasons. Option 2 - 7 P5 per year and one conference ( ACC ) to count those games as P5 wins. I hate option 1 but much easier if you want a new head coach every year and G5 players and ODU as the big rival.

[cruzan_flame13]

With option two, some would consider it a waste of money and having countless losing records. On the other hand, it could give the coaches the opportunity to inform athletes and family that they can come in and play immediately and we are "wasting" money on facilities for the future anyways. In order to succeed, one must take risks. We can see that they are making decisions to build our brand.

[Geraldos Mustache]

You climb a ladder one rung at a time.
Each year we have the ability to string success together. Five years from now - the progress is significant.

I like what we are doing with our scheduling. If you look at our future schedules, it is very promising.

I believe having a larger on-campus student population will help. If LU is a 20,000 student body in five years, that would certain help with our exposure and filling Williams Stadium. I don't ever imagine LU being more than 20,000 students in Lynchburg - but the difference between 15,000 and 20,000 students is "next level" and helps elevate the school in many ways.

I live in Illinois. I've had a kid at LU for 3 semesters now. I've probably educated 200+ people during those 3 semesters on where Liberty is, what Liberty is etc. I'm sure there are plenty of other parents like me who are ambassadors for the University and creating awareness one conversation at a time.

Getting to Bowl Games each year. Making the NCAA Tournament each year. Imagine if that happened every year for the next 4 years and we were able to string 2019 success together for a full 5 years! That kind of consistent winning will yield tremendous benefits in scheduling, recruiting, alumni support, game attendance, applications, enrollment etc.

I like the recipe. Keep cooking it for another 5 years...

[tyndal23]

With option two, some would consider it a waste of money and having countless losing records. On the other hand, it could give the coaches the opportunity to inform athletes and family that they can come in and play immediately and we are "wasting" money on facilities for the future anyways. In order to succeed, one must take risks. We can see that they are making decisions to build our brand.

I have no idea what this means. Waste of money by playing P5 teams that pay out 7 figure sums? Players can come in and play immediately? - please clarify. Are you stating that if we schedule like BYU 5 years from now we can’t recruit as well or better than them ? I think we can but reasonable argument to say we can’t. But I don’t understand any other part of the statement.

[cruzan_flame13]

I put wasting money in quotations to implicate that it's actually the opposite. I believe we are heading in that direction to grow the brand nationally, but we need to keep winning and going deep in posts seasons for many years while recruiting better every class. That's alot of work and dedication but it's not impossible. It is a plus that our coaches and staff are family friendly. I also think we should promote Angel Armies with athletics as a whole. If we are are engaged with the locals plus others nationally, we can receive greater relationships with communities. Not only that we are called to do so but it will be great to gain support from many local communities as possible annually.

[R i]

You climb a ladder one rung at a time.
...........

I like the recipe. Keep cooking it for another 5 years...

Great Post. I agree.

While we are doing the things you mentioned above, I think the administration feels independent is the best place to do that cooking. I think initially we wanted to be in a conference to protect the investment, but have seen we can do that "cooking" you are talking about right here as an Independent. If we continue this success for 3-4 more years, I would think we would need to land in an upper level G5 or possibly even a P5 if the cards fell just right for us to take the next step.

Football, basketball, baseball, and softball, I would consider the 4 major college sports. With a giant gap between Football and the rest. If HCHF stays, there is no reason we couldn't make 3-4 more bowls in a row. Looking at the scheduling and recruiting, we are on our way.

Its the time frame that I have the most questions about. How long do we need to keep winning low level bowls at a low level G5 stage before we make a jump. Personally I feel that if the AAC or any P5 offered, we took it and dealt with the consequences later.

I also get the feeling that Ian is a builder, I think the two metrics that could cause him to feel like we are not growing at the pace he wants, and he could become unsatisfied here and move on, would be Football season ticket sales, and flames club membership. If we the fans continue to do our part and support those two things, Ian should be here for 10 more years, I would think.

[tyndal23]

I think first you determine what size ladder you need then put it on the tree you want to climb then start climbing one step at a time. A 5 foot step ladder doesn’t work on a 30 foot tree.

[Purple Haize]

You climb a ladder one rung at a time.
Each year we have the ability to string success together. Five years from now - the progress is significant.

I like what we are doing with our scheduling. If you look at our future schedules, it is very promising.

I believe having a larger on-campus student population will help. If LU is a 20,000 student body in five years, that would certain help with our exposure and filling Williams Stadium. I don't ever imagine LU being more than 20,000 students in Lynchburg - but the difference between 15,000 and 20,000 students is "next level" and helps elevate the school in many ways.

I live in Illinois. I've had a kid at LU for 3 semesters now. I've probably educated 200+ people during those 3 semesters on where Liberty is, what Liberty is etc. I'm sure there are plenty of other parents like me who are ambassadors for the University and creating awareness one conversation at a time.

Getting to Bowl Games each year. Making the NCAA Tournament each year. Imagine if that happened every year for the next 4 years and we were able to string 2019 success together for a full 5 years! That kind of consistent winning will yield tremendous benefits in scheduling, recruiting, alumni support, game attendance, applications, enrollment etc.

I like the recipe. Keep cooking it for another 5 years...

I like you. You can stay!

[Purple Haize]

Comparing us to anyone is laughable - we are completely unique. Bottom line we have 2 options until a conference invites us. Independent as a G5 or Independent as a P5 Equivalent. If you choose option 1 - no more than 2 FBS games a year and schedule as weak as possible for potential 10 win seasons. Option 2 - 7 P5 per year and one conference ( ACC ) to count those games as P5 wins. I hate option 1 but much easier if you want a new head coach every year and G5 players and ODU as the big rival.

That’s where you are wrong. There is a third way. But you are an all or nothing kind of person

[Jonathan Carone]

Here's why I think you need to build the foundation before you go all in with the P5 thing:

Even with a solid foundation, one bad hire can take 3-5 years to bounce back from.

Without that foundation - and with no conference championship or highly respected bowl tie in to play for - you risk setting your program back by even more.

We got extremely lucky to get Coach Freeze. According to everything out of the University, we were prepared to extend Gill after 2018 before he determined he needed to step away for family reasons. At the same time, a disgraced P5 head coach was getting black balled by the P5 leagues and we were his only option to become a head coach again. Had all those things not worked out exactly how they did, we wouldn't be as far along on this trajectory as we currently are.

We can't make long term decisions on the hope of getting that lucky again.

If we're going to get to where we want to go, we have to be smart about how we do it.

[tyndal23]

So why are we scheduling 4 P5 teams if we need to count wins for foundation. What changes if we have this so called foundation 10 years from now then decide we want to go P5 level but have to wait another 7 years due to schedule obligations. As for coaches - we will never have a hard time finding good coaches G5 or P5 - retaining them is a different story. 10 times more likely to retain a head coach at P5 level than G5. As for wrong hire setting u back 3-5 years - that is true for any program.

[Liberty22]

Clearly I did not explain well enough what I meant when I brought up Clemson as I see a ton of negativity from those who responded. At NO point did I compare us with Clemson. Not sure why this board gets so crappy with one another. It’s one thing to disagree it’s another to come across as a jerk doing it, but maybe I’m the only one who read it that way I don’t know. If it’s christian it ought to be better? My point was I don’t believe Clemsons history has anything to do with its current success. It’s current success is a result of its current head coach. He’s one of the best recruiters and coaches in the game. If we branded ourselves as pursuing P5 and scheduled that way and coach recruited with that brand then I believe he’d get more 4 star recruits, maybe even some 5s but the 5s join schools based on their schedules. We could pull some 5s if we had a P5 schedule. Hard to recruit 5’stars when our schedule only has 2-3 P5 games is the point. Again tho we’d have to announce now that’s our intentions because scedules are set. You start pitching to recruits that we’re pursuing P5 equivalency as seen in our 2026 schedule or whatever year we begin a full slate of P5. You let recruits and people know we want to be a BYU/ND and our scheduling proves it. That’s all I’m getting at. I think most can see the logic behind the attempt even if you disagree that’s the route to go. The AAC is attempting this very thing on the conference level by claiming themselves P6. It remains to see if it will work for them but they are stating their brand marketing desire and it’s starting to reflect on the field as they had several teams perform well with a couple in top 25.

[JK37]

I think first you determine what size ladder you need then put it on the tree you want to climb then start climbing one step at a time. A 5 foot step ladder doesn’t work on a 30 foot tree.

Love the analogy. Just think the order is off. First decision is what tree to climb. That informs every other decision.

Which is why we debate: who/what are we trying to be?

Let me ask this: can G5 goals be a rung on the ladder to climb a P5 tree?

[Purple Haize]

Clearly I did not explain well enough what I meant when I brought up Clemson as I see a ton of negativity from those who responded. At NO point did I compare us with Clemson. Not sure why this board gets so crappy with one another. It’s one thing to disagree it’s another to come across as a jerk doing it, but maybe I’m the only one who read it that way I don’t know. If it’s christian it ought to be better? My point was I don’t believe Clemsons history has anything to do with its current success. It’s current success is a result of its current head coach. He’s one of the best recruiters and coaches in the game. If we branded ourselves as pursuing P5 and scheduled that way and coach recruited with that brand then I believe he’d get more 4 star recruits, maybe even some 5s but the 5s join schools based on their schedules. We could pull some 5s if we had a P5 schedule. Hard to recruit 5’stars when our schedule only has 2-3 P5 games is the point. Again tho we’d have to announce now that’s our intentions because scedules are set. You start pitching to recruits that we’re pursuing P5 equivalency as seen in our 2026 schedule or whatever year we begin a full slate of P5. You let recruits and people know we want to be a BYU/ND and our scheduling proves it. That’s all I’m getting at. I think most can see the logic behind the attempt even if you disagree that’s the route to go. The AAC is attempting this very thing on the conference level by claiming themselves P6. It remains to see if it will work for them but they are stating their brand marketing desire and it’s starting to reflect on the field as they had several teams perform well with a couple in top 25.

Their history absolutely has something to do with their current success. Poopy head (since I’m apparently a jerk I should act like one ).
I think the AAC would be a great landing place for LU. But I’ve also gone on record that the CFB landscape will undergo a seismic shift in the next 5 years.

[Purple Haize]

I think first you determine what size ladder you need then put it on the tree you want to climb then start climbing one step at a time. A 5 foot step ladder doesn’t work on a 30 foot tree.

Love the analogy. Just think the order is off. First decision is what tree to climb. That informs every other decision.

Which is why we debate: who/what are we trying to be?

Let me ask this: can G5 goals be a rung on the ladder to climb a P5 tree?

In sales there’s always a WIIFM. If LU can bring a large fan base that travels well, wins games and generates revenue it will be a whole lot more attractive to a Conference. But too many people only look at it from what LU would get out of it. Yeah, LU would certainly benefit from being in the SEC. But would the SEC benefit from LU?
To repeat myself, I like the trajectory LUFB is on. If/when the seismic shift in CFB happens I think it sets LU up for a decent landing spot.

[tyndal23]

I think first you determine what size ladder you need then put it on the tree you want to climb then start climbing one step at a time. A 5 foot step ladder doesn’t work on a 30 foot tree.

Love the analogy. Just think the order is off. First decision is what tree to climb. That informs every other decision.

Which is why we debate: who/what are we trying to be?

Let me ask this: can G5 goals be a rung on the ladder to climb a P5 tree?

If it could, I would be all for it - but there are 6-8 G5 programs way ahead of us that are stuck in G5 desperate to get out - they froze us out - so rather than trying to join their misery - bypass them and use all the unique assets we have. I have looked at every angle specific to LU and see no other way to somewhat control our own destiny than going P5 Equivalent in 5 years or less. Purple might be right about seismic shift happening prior to that time frame but that should not make us passive with planning. If I didn’t believe LU could recruit nationally at a P5 level I wouldn’t be pushing this. I am 100 percent convinced we will with the right coach - HF would kill it if LU could say P5 Equivalent.

[Geraldos Mustache]

Option A - remain Independent with increasingly equivalent P5 schedule.

Option B - pursue P5 conference affiliation. This will never happen. All the P5 conferences have circled the wagons.

Option C - pursue the best G5 conference (AAC) and hope they become the newest addition to the P6.

Option D - pursue any G5 conference. Not a good idea. Liberty has larger aspirations.

To me, "Option A" is the most logical and most within our control. This also gives us the most options when the seismic shift happens in FBS. It was God's providence that Liberty was iced out of a G5 conference. Most pundits laughed and warned against Liberty going Independent FBS. Hindsight is 20/20 and shows to be the right decision. Stay the course. The right move will present itself in God's timing.

[Purple Haize]

Option A - remain Independent with increasingly equivalent P5 schedule.

Option B - pursue P5 conference affiliation. This will never happen. All the P5 conferences have circled the wagons.

Option C - pursue the best G5 conference (AAC) and hope they become the newest addition to the P6.

Option D - pursue any G5 conference. Not a good idea. Liberty has larger aspirations.

To me, "Option A" is the most logical and most within our control. This also gives us the most options when the seismic shift happens in FBS. It was God's providence that Liberty was iced out of a G5 conference. Most pundits laughed and warned against Liberty going Independent FBS. Hindsight is 20/20 and shows to be the right decision. Stay the course. The right move will present itself in God's timing.

I like Option C.

[cruzan_flame13]

Notre Dame had to do this about 100 years ago in order to become who they are. Yes the game was different and schools were not as established as they are now, but the vision is still the same. We can attempt to become the an upper G5 program or shoot for the vision if being what our founder wanted to be. By this time, Schools like Stetson, Rollins College, University of Tampa and others were the known colleges of football. Are they now? No. Reason? Funding. Right now we are in a position where many of the known P5's did not have a few decades in their programs back then. It's because of a coach like Knute Rockne who grew the Norte Dame program(while helping other sport programs) to what we know of it today. We have high football IQ coach like Rockne was(of course Rockne is a legend), so why not use him in that same way? Why limit ourselves because we dont know the what ifs? We don't know if we'll get a piece of the pie when that conference realignment occur, so why not push and market ourselves as a commodity as much as possible(we can do way more than what we do now in my opinion)? We all know that this is business; how are we going to grow supporters/fans when we don't even look like we can't do it ourselves and maybe just hope something come to fruition x number of years? We have to seize it ourselves! Do it wisely,but dont just wait on hope/wishes (because these conferences/programs will not give us anything willingly). Interesting post @tyndal23

[Cider Jim]

Comparing Hugh Freeze to Knute Rockne? I LOVE that!!!

[Purple Haize]

Comparing Hugh Freeze to Knute Rockne? I LOVE that!!!

It’s amazing what some people come up with.

[Cider Jim]

I'm just shocked that Ballcoach didn't come up with it first.

[ballcoach15]

Give him 5 years at LU.

[thepostman]

Clearly I did not explain well enough what I meant when I brought up Clemson as I see a ton of negativity from those who responded. At NO point did I compare us with Clemson. Not sure why this board gets so crappy with one another. It’s one thing to disagree it’s another to come across as a jerk doing it, but maybe I’m the only one who read it that way I don’t know. If it’s christian it ought to be better? My point was I don’t believe Clemsons history has anything to do with its current success. It’s current success is a result of its current head coach. He’s one of the best recruiters and coaches in the game. If we branded ourselves as pursuing P5 and scheduled that way and coach recruited with that brand then I believe he’d get more 4 star recruits, maybe even some 5s but the 5s join schools based on their schedules. We could pull some 5s if we had a P5 schedule. Hard to recruit 5’stars when our schedule only has 2-3 P5 games is the point. Again tho we’d have to announce now that’s our intentions because scedules are set. You start pitching to recruits that we’re pursuing P5 equivalency as seen in our 2026 schedule or whatever year we begin a full slate of P5. You let recruits and people know we want to be a BYU/ND and our scheduling proves it. That’s all I’m getting at. I think most can see the logic behind the attempt even if you disagree that’s the route to go. The AAC is attempting this very thing on the conference level by claiming themselves P6. It remains to see if it will work for them but they are stating their brand marketing desire and it’s starting to reflect on the field as they had several teams perform well with a couple in top 25.

If I came across as a jerk, I apologize. That was not my intent at all. I do disagree with your premise that Clemson's history has nothing to do with their success. I also don't like linking us to any school other then Liberty. right now we are making our own path that can't really be compared to other schools. Especially P5 schools.

[Purple Haize]

Clearly I did not explain well enough what I meant when I brought up Clemson as I see a ton of negativity from those who responded. At NO point did I compare us with Clemson. Not sure why this board gets so crappy with one another. It’s one thing to disagree it’s another to come across as a jerk doing it, but maybe I’m the only one who read it that way I don’t know. If it’s christian it ought to be better? My point was I don’t believe Clemsons history has anything to do with its current success. It’s current success is a result of its current head coach. He’s one of the best recruiters and coaches in the game. If we branded ourselves as pursuing P5 and scheduled that way and coach recruited with that brand then I believe he’d get more 4 star recruits, maybe even some 5s but the 5s join schools based on their schedules. We could pull some 5s if we had a P5 schedule. Hard to recruit 5’stars when our schedule only has 2-3 P5 games is the point. Again tho we’d have to announce now that’s our intentions because scedules are set. You start pitching to recruits that we’re pursuing P5 equivalency as seen in our 2026 schedule or whatever year we begin a full slate of P5. You let recruits and people know we want to be a BYU/ND and our scheduling proves it. That’s all I’m getting at. I think most can see the logic behind the attempt even if you disagree that’s the route to go. The AAC is attempting this very thing on the conference level by claiming themselves P6. It remains to see if it will work for them but they are stating their brand marketing desire and it’s starting to reflect on the field as they had several teams perform well with a couple in top 25.

If I came across as a jerk, I apologize. That was not my intent at all. I do disagree with your premise that Clemson's history has nothing to do with their success. I also don't like linking us to any school other then Liberty. right now we are making our own path that can't really be compared to other schools. Especially P5 schools.

But you ARE a jerk