Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

By BigRed1
Posts
#540698
olldflame wrote:
Ewglenn wrote:
BigRed1 wrote:I don’t really understand why so many people keep excusing Gill’s lack of success at Kansas. In the previous 8 years before Gill went there, Kansas went to 4 bowl games and won three of those. It’s when Gill came to Kansas and there after that they became a dumpster fire.
Finally someone with some sense.
As has been stated by myself and others, Gill's predicesor at Kansas, Mark Mangino, is the only coach to have success there in a LONG time. They were bad before him and have been bad since he left. He was the Kansas equivalent of Bill Snyder at K State, but without the longevity or the class. Trying to make it sound like Turner Gill is responsible for the dumpster fire that is Kansas football is agenda driven revisionist history.
So are you’re saying Mangino is a better coach than Gill? If Gill were such a great coach, shouldn’t Kansas have continued to win after his arrival? I’m just stating my opinion based on facts. It seems that many Gill defenders base their opinions on an emotional bond for Gill.
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By CCWMichael
Posts
#540701
Jonathan Carone wrote:Kansas is historically bad, but we can’t simply overlook his results there completely. They have to be taken in context.

Mangino was 7-5, 6-6, 12-1, 8-5, 5-7 with 3 bowl wins in his last five years. He’s the outlier.

Gill came in and immediately went 3-9, losing his first game to an FCS. He lost 17 of his last 20. Of those 17 losses only three were single digits. Three of his five wins were by less than a touchdown.

If you look at how his teams performed at Kansas and how they’ve performed at Liberty, there’s not much hope for success. I hate that because he’s represents us so well but at some point you are who you are.
+1
User avatar
By CCWMichael
Posts
#540702
Ewglenn wrote:
BigRed1 wrote:I don’t really understand why so many people keep excusing Gill’s lack of success at Kansas. In the previous 8 years before Gill went there, Kansas went to 4 bowl games and won three of those. It’s when Gill came to Kansas and there after that they became a dumpster fire.
Finally someone with some sense.
+2
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540736
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:I know he went 5-7 his last year at Buffalo, but after that first year he went 18-20 with a conference championship and bowl appearance. If you look at Buffalo from 1999 to 2017 this is what you see. . .
6 times they won 5 or more games, 3 of those 6 seasons belong to Turner Gill. He is the only one to win a conference title there and the other 3 seasons of 5 or more wins were shared by 3 different head coaches.

He left Buffalo in a MUCH better position when he left. Record doesn't speak for the success he had at Buffalo.

And for the record next season, I think we can win 6 games for sure. I will be disappointed with anything less than 4. For the 2019 season I think we can win 7 of those games and again anything less than 4 would be a disappointment.
If Gill is coach, I will take that bet for $500.
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540738
Gill has never been a successful head coach at any school. He certainly has not made LU better in six years. He does have a winning record here, but hard to say it is successful, with all of the horrible losses. It is very, very, very easy to say we are worse off in every area, except for QB.
We need to cut our losses and move on. Can anyone who is for keeping Gill, give us just one reason why you might think that he will improve over his first 6 years.......... just one.
I am aware that he finished 4th in the Heisman Trophy voting. :roll:

Gill4life
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#540740
flameshaw wrote:Gill has never been a successful head coach at any school. He certainly has not made LU better in six years. He does have a winning record here, but hard to say it is successful, with all of the horrible losses. It is very, very, very easy to say we are worse off in every area, except for QB.
We need to cut our losses and move on. Can anyone who is for keeping Gill, give us just one reason why you might think that he will improve over his first 6 years.......... just one.
I am aware that he finished 4th in the Heisman Trophy voting. :roll:

Gill4life
We get it. You think Gill is a worthless coach :beatinghorse
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540743
Purple Haize wrote:
flameshaw wrote:Gill has never been a successful head coach at any school. He certainly has not made LU better in six years. He does have a winning record here, but hard to say it is successful, with all of the horrible losses. It is very, very, very easy to say we are worse off in every area, except for QB.
We need to cut our losses and move on. Can anyone who is for keeping Gill, give us just one reason why you might think that he will improve over his first 6 years.......... just one.
I am aware that he finished 4th in the Heisman Trophy voting. :roll:

Gill4life
We get it. You think Gill is a worthless coach :beatinghorse
It is not what I think that matters, it is what is painfully obvious to any objective person, who knows anything about football.

Gill 4 life.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#540749
No true Scotsman...
And you are not exactly objective
So again. We get it You think he’s a worthless football coach. :beatinghorse
Last edited by Purple Haize on November 15th, 2017, 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By FlamesHighontheTide
Registration Days Posts
#540775
flameshaw, a $500 dollar bet on next seasons win total? I thought this was a baptist school where gambling wasn't allowed. Nonetheless, I wouldn't want you to have to pay up brother.

#Gillstaysandwegobowling2019
User avatar
By R i
Registration Days Posts
#540779
Looking at Mccaw's history of firing football coaches, it appears he has only done it once. It was at Baylor, and he did it the Sunday after the last game. Every situation is different, but it is part of it.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540780
R i wrote:Looking at Mccaw's history of firing football coaches, it appears he has only done it once. It was at Baylor, and he did it the Sunday after the last game. Every situation is different, but it is part of it.
If we win Saturday, I don’t know that I’d expect an announcement Sunday. I think it’d be a Tuesday-ish announcement after “extensive evaluation of the program.”
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540781
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:flameshaw, a $500 dollar bet on next seasons win total? I thought this was a baptist school where gambling wasn't allowed. Nonetheless, I wouldn't want you to have to pay up brother.

#Gillstaysandwegobowling2019
No worries my friend, I have it. I will end up happy either way. I understand your reluctance though.

Gill 4 life
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#540782
Jonathan Carone wrote:
R i wrote:Looking at Mccaw's history of firing football coaches, it appears he has only done it once. It was at Baylor, and he did it the Sunday after the last game. Every situation is different, but it is part of it.
If we win Saturday, I don’t know that I’d expect an announcement Sunday. I think it’d be a Tuesday-ish announcement after “extensive evaluation of the program.”
You could certainly be correct my friend. However, I am of the opinion that the "extensive evaluation of the program" has already been completed. As long as it happens, I am not concerned about the timing.
I do sincerely feel bad for TG if he is replaced, but it is a business decision, on many fronts, nothing personal.
User avatar
By R i
Registration Days Posts
#540790
So you guys think he has his mind made up already ? Or can this CSU game be a deciding factor ?

The main argument for and against firing Gill in my mind are :

Fire Gill : He is clearly not the guy to lead our program to greater heights that we aspire too. He is a good man, but he will never lead us to prominence. We need to cut ties as soon as possible to get started on that process, especially seeing as these are crucial years for our programs development.

Keep Gill : He has years left on his contract and it would be cheaper. He has recruited decently well, and has several verbals from high profile athletes with a few more to follow. The next few seasons is a transition period, and not many coaches will have success in that period. Gill will guide us through the valley of transition and be the steadying force we need. Our highs will not be high, and our lows will not be low.

My personal opinion is we need to move on and "find a guy that can do both"

I get the feeling that McCaw and JJ are leaning towards a more conservative play during the transition and keeping Gill after a 7-4 season.
User avatar
By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540794
flameshaw wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote:
R i wrote:Looking at Mccaw's history of firing football coaches, it appears he has only done it once. It was at Baylor, and he did it the Sunday after the last game. Every situation is different, but it is part of it.
If we win Saturday, I don’t know that I’d expect an announcement Sunday. I think it’d be a Tuesday-ish announcement after “extensive evaluation of the program.”
You could certainly be correct my friend. However, I am of the opinion that the "extensive evaluation of the program" has already been completed. As long as it happens, I am not concerned about the timing.
I do sincerely feel bad for TG if he is replaced, but it is a business decision, on many fronts, nothing personal.
I agree the evaluation has already been done. Ian already knows what he wants to do. Waiting til Tuesday and the "extensive evaluation of the program" would be the PR game he'd play to show respect to Gill. It comes across better that way than firing him the day after he won his third straight game.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540795
R i wrote:So you guys think he has his mind made up already ? Or can this CSU game be a deciding factor ?
You can't make a program defining decision based on one game. Ian's been here just under a year. He was also being vetted for months before he got here. He's likely been watching our football program since at least part of the 2016 season. Not to mention, I'm sure he's seen the report Jeff put together last year on why he wanted to make the move then.

The buyout is only $1.5 million. My understanding is we won't have to buy out the assistants. From a financial standpoint, if we aren't ready to cover a $1.5 million buyout, we're not FBS ready. That's the cost of doing business at that level.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#540804
Jonathan Carone wrote:Waiting til Tuesday and the "extensive evaluation of the program" would be the PR game he'd play to show respect to Gill. It comes across better that way than firing him the day after he won his third straight game.
When are the exit meetings typically scheduled ? Do you think there would be that large of a gap in time between exit meetings and a press conference ? The way LU and Mccaw have proven to jump out in front of a story, I do not think they wait that long if he indeed gets fired.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#540807
I just realized Liberty gets the entire week off for Thanksgiving. That means exit meetings are probably Sunday. If that’s the case, I’d agree the announcement would be Sunday so Gill could address his players one final time.
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#540810
I see several schools are going after Jimbo Fisher. If LU needs a new coach, we should go after him also. I read he is unhappy with FSU commitment to facility upgrades, and support staff upgrades. LU is excellent in those areas.
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