[kel varson]

We beat Winthrop last year. I know, I know...everyone's giving Winthrop there respect and they deserve it. But come on...we beat them last year and everyone knows how bad we were last year. We have a better team this year, I think everyone would agree.

So why everyone so content to lose to Winthrop...I for one thought we should win at home and expected us to. Getting blown out by thirty points never crossed my mind. Now, I know Winthrop is good, but did you all really expect to lose. I sure didn't.

I just don't understand how we could come out so flat and play so unenthused against one of the top teams in the region. There's just no excuse for this. These kids are getting scholarships and should play like it. If this was the first occurance I could understand but this keeps happening. LU plays hard in spurts so we can see what they are capable of. As yet, they have yet to "play" a full game. LU CAN play up to Winthrop's standars. I refuse to believe they don't have the talent to do so.

I fully expect LU to be able to compete against Winthrop and even better teams every year. But something has to change.

[thepostman]

I thought the game would be close and that we might be able to pull it out...I don't know if we would win or not...but its home so you never know...but the team came out flat and didn't appear to care...It is not acceptable to lose by 30 to this team, they are not THAT good....

[SuperJon]

Last year was a fluke that came after Winthrop played an insanely high energy overtime game against a great opponent.

[JDUB]

well, the team evidently doesn't care, because they don't play like they do. if they don't want to play hard and at least attempt at competing with the competition, then i'm not going to waste my time watching them play. untll they decide they want to play, i don't know if i'll go to another game

[Hold My Own]

they should have beat the #1 team in the country at their own place...they're pretty good

[Cider Jim]

I for one thought we should win at home and expected us to. Getting blown out by thirty points never crossed my mind. Now, I know Winthrop is good, but did you all really expect to lose. I sure didn't.

Kel, have you seen us play this year? I was just hoping we wouldn't lose by 20, but we lost by almost 30.

[SuperJon]

I expected to lose by 10-15 with Martin out. Winthrop's that good.

[JDUB]

the point isn't that they lost. the point is that the team didn't come out to play. they acted like they didn't care, and they were just messing around out there. i don't want to start another dunton war, but it is at least partially on his shoulders the lack of enthusiasm they played with. it is partly the teams fault too though

[LUzer]

First of all Winthrop IS that good. Wisconsin lost to Missouri St . I believe it was, but they are clearly one of the top 5 teams in the country. Winthrop lost to us...(on some Evan Risher Superheroics), but they are clearly a far better team than us, and any team in the Big South for that matter. We should not expect to beat them. That will only lead to dissappointment. We should however expect our players to play hard and lose with some dignity. All I will say is attitude reflects leadership.

[kel varson]

Yes, I have seen us play. Once in person and 3 or 4 times on the net. To borrow from the nursery ryhyme: "When we are good we are very good but when we are bad we are horrid."

I've watched basketball my whole life, I know what talent is and I know what underachieving looks like. In my opinion it takes a great coach to get 100 percent out of a player. It also takes a player of superior character to play at 100 percent all the time. I've seen only a few players at Liberty who played hard all the time. One of them was Nathan Day. Granted, I've only been watching LU for 8 years, but I've played and watched a lot of basketball. Coach K at Duke is a coach who knows how to get the max out each player, but it also takes great team leaders such as Steve Wojo. who played for Duke in the mid to late 90's. As good a coach as Coach k is, without vitale team leadership, they don't even play up to par. And that has been seen on more than one occasion with Duke. Our team desperately needs a spark plug like Day and like others in the past, maybe some of you who saw him play would say Matt Hildebrand was that kind of player. As a young teenager I actually watched that team play UNC and I know the hustle and determination that team played with and I've yet to see it, except in spurts on this years team. Where are we going to find him...I don't know. The more I think about the more I realize, as much as Dunton does, if this team has no leadership, they won't go anywhere. So of you may re-call Hankinson's second to last season at LU when they lost to Winthrop in OT in the semifinals of the BSC Tourney in Roanoke. That team played basically six players and was overmatched at practicallly every position including head coach. But that team found some kind of resolve and even took a 17 point lead on Winthrop and looked like they would go to the finals of the conference tournament. Liberty's player's flat out ran out of gas. They had played on two straight days with about 6 players and several of them playing 40 plus minutes. That team played hard down the stretch, but it came down to lack of personel.

This year's squad is probably 20 points better than that years team, but they lack character. I hope someone reads this to the team because that is the problem. They don't play hard, its that simple.

Is Larry Blair better than how he's played this year...probably, but we are a team, not just Larry Blair and we need to start playing that way.

[kel varson]

First of all Winthrop IS that good. Wisconsin lost to Missouri St . I believe it was, but they are clearly one of the top 5 teams in the country. Winthrop lost to us...(on some Evan Risher Superheroics), but they are clearly a far better team than us, and any team in the Big South for that matter. We should not expect to beat them. That will only lead to dissappointment. We should however expect our players to play hard and lose with some dignity. All I will say is attitude reflects leadership.

Big deal. Mid-majors upset good teams all the time. It has become common. Winthrop is not the only team. And by the way, mid-majors playing close with good teams is even more common. Winthrop didn't win. In case you didn't know this happens in about 75 percent of first round NCAA tournament matchups. They're always close, so playing close proves nothing only that Winthrop is a good team. I'm just saying I think Liberty has the talent to be a good team.

[kel varson]

the point isn't that they lost. the point is that the team didn't come out to play. they acted like they didn't care, and they were just messing around out there. i don't want to start another dunton war, but it is at least partially on his shoulders the lack of enthusiasm they played with. it is partly the teams fault too though

Yes, right now the team lacks character.

[kel varson]

I expected to lose by 10-15 with Martin out. Winthrop's that good.

Talent wise, the difference is not that great. It's all about the intangibles baby. If someone can tell me which of Winthrops recruits were top 100 I might disagree. Even Hankinson's player's were on par with Winthrops...at least when they were eligible.

[kel varson]

they should have beat the #1 team in the country at their own place...they're pretty good

VA Tech did beat them. They weren't even ranked. STOP worshipping Winthrop and realize that their talent is not the issue.

[SuperJon]

Talent wise and team wise are two completely different things.

[kel varson]

Talent wise and team wise are two completely different things.

Yes, I agree, we don't play as team. We are selfish.

[SuperJon]

The whole team isn't selfish.

[kel varson]

The whole team isn't selfish.

One bad apple spoils the whole bunch, n'est-ce pas.

[thepostman]

but the ones that aren't selfish are afraid to take open shots

[Realist]

I've watched both teams and I can tell you the "talent" level is not that wide at the guard spots. The problem with LU, and has been for awhile, is that they have no post talent. Mclean is alright, but he is dwarfed by Bradshaw and Williams, and way overmatched athletically against McCoullough. He's good against smaller players but isn't going to get it done against larger opponents. Baker just floats around the perimeter. He may be 6'9 but he plays like he's 6'3. Monroe just isn't a D1 player. Smith is a strong, good sized guard but he can't rebound against guys 6'8, 6'8, and 6'10. Hubbard is more of a 3 (actually, I'm not sure where he really fits) but he certainly isn't a point guard.

The issue is size with LU, even Blair is overwhelmed against Jenkins and Martin who are both 6'3+ and long, neither which is Blair. He's very, very good, but he's going to have bad nights sometimes when he has guys 6'3 and long guarding him.

[TIMSCAR20]

I think we should stop disrespecting Winthrop. They are a good team and are the standard in the Big South. If we don't think so then we should play better when we get them on our home court. Kel mentioned that mid majors always play good teams tough. True but Winthrop plays top 25 teams close and sometimes wins those games and in addition to that, they do it on that team's home court and not in a one and done tournament on a neutral court. If you have ever played any sports at all you know that there is a huge difference between playing someone in tournament 1000 miles away from both schools and playing a top 10 team on their home floor. I have seen Winthrop play tough or take teams to OT or even beat power conference teams for the past 8 years. How can we down play those accomplishments? So what Tennessee won the game last year on a buzzer beater. That game showed that Winthrop was good enough to beat a #2 seed. We have struggled with teams in the bottom 300 in RPI. We need to stop disrespecting Winthrop until our squad can compete. There is a lot of basketball left to be played. 1st thing our team needs to do is go down to HPU and get a win. Our team and our fans should be concentrating on that task at hand and not worried about anything else right now. Laser focus by our team and coaching staff will be needed to go down to HPU and win. They are tough at home and are undefeated in conference play I think. This season is not over by any stretch. I hope the players and the coaching staff don't think it is and I hope we as flamefans don't give up just yet.

[kel varson]

I think we should stop disrespecting Winthrop. They are a good team and are the standard in the Big South. If we don't think so then we should play better when we get them on our home court. Kel mentioned that mid majors always play good teams tough. True but Winthrop plays top 25 teams close and sometimes wins those games and in addition to that, they do it on that team's home court and not in a one and done tournament on a neutral court. If you have ever played any sports at all you know that there is a huge difference between playing someone in tournament 1000 miles away from both schools and playing a top 10 team on their home floor. I have seen Winthrop play tough or take teams to OT or even beat power conference teams for the past 8 years. How can we down play those accomplishments? So what Tennessee won the game last year on a buzzer beater. That game showed that Winthrop was good enough to beat a #2 seed. We have struggled with teams in the bottom 300 in RPI. We need to stop disrespecting Winthrop until our squad can compete. There is a lot of basketball left to be played. 1st thing our team needs to do is go down to HPU and get a win. Our team and our fans should be concentrating on that task at hand and not worried about anything else right now. Laser focus by our team and coaching staff will be needed to go down to HPU and win. They are tough at home and are undefeated in conference play I think. This season is not over by any stretch. I hope the players and the coaching staff don't think it is and I hope we as flamefans don't give up just yet.

No disrespect intended to Winthrop. I'm upset with our team. I think we are capable of being a "Winthrop." I don't like excuses for us getting our "heinies whooped," as Dunton would say.

UNC=Wine and Cheese Crowd.

[kel varson]

I think we should stop disrespecting Winthrop. They are a good team and are the standard in the Big South. If we don't think so then we should play better when we get them on our home court. Kel mentioned that mid majors always play good teams tough. True but Winthrop plays top 25 teams close and sometimes wins those games and in addition to that, they do it on that team's home court and not in a one and done tournament on a neutral court. If you have ever played any sports at all you know that there is a huge difference between playing someone in tournament 1000 miles away from both schools and playing a top 10 team on their home floor. I have seen Winthrop play tough or take teams to OT or even beat power conference teams for the past 8 years. How can we down play those accomplishments? So what Tennessee won the game last year on a buzzer beater. That game showed that Winthrop was good enough to beat a #2 seed. We have struggled with teams in the bottom 300 in RPI. We need to stop disrespecting Winthrop until our squad can compete. There is a lot of basketball left to be played. 1st thing our team needs to do is go down to HPU and get a win. Our team and our fans should be concentrating on that task at hand and not worried about anything else right now. Laser focus by our team and coaching staff will be needed to go down to HPU and win. They are tough at home and are undefeated in conference play I think. This season is not over by any stretch. I hope the players and the coaching staff don't think it is and I hope we as flamefans don't give up just yet.

By Mid-majors playing good teams tough, I meant top 25 teams. I wonder how many top 25 teams Winthrop has actually beaten. My guess is not very many. Close but no cigars for Winthrop...at least not this year. And once again, no disrespect intended.

[thesportscritic]

Winthrop is the class of the league and they showed it against us on Saturday. Maybe except for their poor free throw shooting which can be corrected.

[thepostman]

people keep saying we need to give Winthrop respect, but how many people on this board aren't giving them respect?? I think those people are by far the minority. A very small minority at that. We all know Winthrop is good, we all know that no matter what Saturday's game against them would've been tough...they give top 25 teams a run for their money, so of course they are good. But we could have made the game respectable, they aren't so good where we couldn't make it respectable...they are not so much better then us that a 30 point loss to them was expected....they are good, and we should give them their credit, we need to look at them as a model...but there are some people on here that praise them a little too much here...they are still in the Big South and that will hurt them come tournament time and the seeding...I still can't see them making it out of the first round. If the do make a sweet 16 run like I have read many on here say they will, then their coach will be gone and they will have to start from scratch again....I guy who thinks he's big time isn't going to stick around for long, as soon as he has some success in the tournament the big boys will come calling...and there is nothing WU can do to stop that....and rightfully so, its the Big South