Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#530750
oldflame wrote:Interesting (but not at all surprising) that there has been zero discussion as to whether our swim team needs to be more careful/selective in who they recruit.
But their dress code ....... :shock:
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530790
Paging Chris Turner, Javon Frazier and Will Brown. :buttkick Second thoughts? If not, enjoy playing your Senior year against a bunch of no-names at that FCS program you end up at. :nod

Turner and Frazier have both used their redshirt year and would be sitting one to play one and losing a year on the field at any FBS program that wanted them. Highly unlikely Javon will get the opportunity. Chris might, but would it be worth it?.
Brown still has a redshirt year. Maybe Arkansas State still wants him. SBC is FBS, right? :rofl

Bold prediction. If these guys in fact were all leaving by their own choice, at least one will announce a change of heart before all is said and done.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530792
BuryYourDuke wrote:It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.


I did say I was not surprised, but as far as internet interest is concerned, while lower D1 swimming may not be click-bait, salacious behavior most definately is. 8)

There is a huge tusker of an elephant in the room on this whole thing, and I can't decide if I want to be the one to point it out.
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By rmiller1959
Registration Days Posts
#530796
BuryYourDuke wrote:First off thank y'all for reading my column.

With regards to the Title IX/criminal law distinction, I'm quite familiar with the difference. My objection to the Title IX portion of the case has nothing to do with the criminal action. It has everything to do with the broad stroke abuse of Title IX in a manner that it was never intended. Sad that our university has fallen prey to that.

OldFlame, I understand a bit of your skepticism. I have the benefit that you do not, and that is knowing the names of the people who said the things they did to me, as well as the others who have come forward since my column was published. My assertion has been proven more correct in the past 24 hours than even I had believed.
Thank you for your candor, Duke. Respectfully, however, what you may consider "broad stroke abuse" is a consequence of the law itself, which is written to define non-consent quite expansively and leaves little room for considering factors outside of the discrete event itself. The same process which you describe as a kangaroo court has also ruled in favor of an accused athlete within the same academic year - has that also been taken into account?

The people who have to make these decisions do so with sober judgment and take no pleasure in it. People are entitled to their opinions about the process, and some of those opinions have merit, but I simply felt that in your comments, you impugned the integrity of the people in the process, and that's what I took exception to.
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#530802
Lucas Holder left on his own accord.
Will Brown left on his own accord.
Stephon Masha left on his own accord.
DeCarlo Hamilton left on his own accord.
Tyrin Holloway left on his own accord.
Javon Frazier requested his release before he was arrested.
Chris Turner had been contemplating transferring for a while, but he was facing at least some type of punishment if not being kicked off the team all together before making his decision.

Several other names have been rumored as eyeing the door as well. We'll see if any of them decide to pull the trigger.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530811
jcmanson wrote:Lucas Holder left on his own accord.
Will Brown left on his own accord.
Stephon Masha left on his own accord.
DeCarlo Hamilton left on his own accord.
Tyrin Holloway left on his own accord.
Javon Frazier requested his release before he was arrested.
Chris Turner had been contemplating transferring for a while, but he was facing at least some type of punishment if not being kicked off the team all together before making his decision.

Several other names have been rumored as eyeing the door as well. We'll see if any of them decide to pull the trigger.
Masha and Holder may not have been happy campers, but Masha's reasons were mainly football and Holder's were academic and political.

Holloway probably left of his own accord, but I think that may have had mostly to do with embarrassment. Not over his actions, but over the fact that it's now out there that the girl basically cuckolded him with Jackson that night. Not very good for your street cred. Oh yeah, he wants to go into law enforcement. :roll:

A lot of people "contemplate" a lot of things. What you are saying is that Turner left under the impending threat of possible dismissal.

Javon may have asked for his release before his arrest, but that doesn't mean he didn't know it was coming

Will Brown is a snowflake. (sorry,that's all I got on him.)
DeCarlo Hamilton...... don't care
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530812
BuryYourDuke wrote:
oldflame wrote:
BuryYourDuke wrote:It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.


I did say I was not surprised, but as far as internet interest is concerned, while lower D1 swimming may not be click-bait, salacious behavior most definately is. 8)

There is a huge tusker of an elephant in the room on this whole thing, and I can't decide if I want to be the one to point it out.
I think you should point it out.

And, obviously we did our share of publicizing that salacious behavior when we published the details.
Why me? :nonono I have to think about it.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#531142
oldflame wrote: the girl basically cuckolded him
Oldflame is going old school with a 19th century Victorian literary term. Study That LBC education is still paying off! :clapping
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#531147
Cider Jim wrote:
oldflame wrote: the girl basically cuckolded him
Oldflame is going old school with a 19th century Victorian literary term. Study That LBC education is still paying off! :clapping
That word has made a huuuge comeback recently. Bigly. The Milo's and Antifa's of the World like hurling it back and forth at each other
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#531170
forbidden wrote:Been a long time, the shenanigans continue
Good to see you again coach...got a couple 2018 recruits I'd love to get your perspective on
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#531370
Yeah, I just finished reading that response. It was a very well written response. I am sure once PH reads it his man crush will just grow.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#531372
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/
Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.
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By rmiller1959
Registration Days Posts
#531375
oldflame wrote:
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/
Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.
Hear, hear! :clapping
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By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#531388
oldflame wrote:
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/
Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.

I pray about this daily. At times I can hear myself repeating the same thing over and over while thanking the Lord for His blessings and grace. This was a good response oldflame and I respect you for that. This transition to FBS is more than just having a great athletic program. This is an opportunity in which a school who want to train champions for Christ can use its success in their athletic and academic positions to be the light in this dark world. Of course that success will draw many people from all parts of this nation, but it is a good opportunity for those men and women to represent Christ on a national and even international scale. People are watching LU and how it is not condoning so much to the world and it is doing quite well in my opinion. We may not agree with everything that is done for the school, but at the end of the day we need to pray. I'm going to continue thanking the Lord for using the university and hopefully will continue to use LU as a platform for His mission. May we glorify His name through all of our success as a university and to continue asking for guidance for the school's adverse moments. Again, thanks for your post oldflame.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#531391
Intriguing tweet from manson



If Turner's off field issues can be resolved to the satisfaction of the authorities, the University and Coach Gill, I would be thrilled if he in fact decides to stick it out at LU. I believe in second chances for those who are repentant.

The updated roster manson referenced is now up on the AC website

http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm ... 1&TeamID=9

In addition to the deletions, all of the 2017 signees have been added.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#531397
We've been down this road before regarding second chances...
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#531398
jbock13 wrote:We've been down this road before regarding second chances...
Yes, we have, and some have been successful, some not so much. I won't say I know the figures on that but IMHO it doesn't matter. Each person and situation needs to be evaluated individually.

Now don't think for one minute it is lost on me that the guy who appears to be returning is by far the best player of the bunch.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#531401
If Turner is returning (and I will say that is a big IF until we have confirmation) it is obviously a huge plus for us on the field. We all know what a talented corner he is. IMHO it is also a VERY smart decision on his part. Let's look at his options:

As a JR who has already used his redshirt year he would have to sit a year if he goes to another FBS program. He would lose that year of eligibility and then have only one to play. There are no doubt a lot of FBS teams, including perhaps some P5s, who would love to have a 6'3" corner with his skill set under other circumstances, but when you are talking about using a scholarship for 2 years to get him on the field for one, I would think the choices go way down. He would have to learn a new system and earn playing time, which could be a crap shoot, especially if he got with a P5 program. The other option would be to go to one of the many FCS teams who would be foaming at the mouth to get him. He could then play 2 years, almost certainly start, and perhaps have a chance to compete for a championship.

As a player with NFL aspirations, those options both fall short IMHO to the opportunity to play 2 more years in a system he knows, where he will be the shutdown corner, lining up against the opponents best on every play, and then get to do that against the schedule we play in 2018 his senior year. That year he would have a golden opportunity to show the pro scouts he can go up against high level WRs game in and game out and get the job done.

Keep in mind, I am only talking football here. The other side of it is that if he is going to stay at LU he needs to put the past behind him and commit himself to being a part of a team and a school where the expectations are different than most of those other places.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#531404
Coach Gill needs to be commended for facing these issues head on. It is comforting to see his responses. I never doubted that the players knew about the Liberty Way, but it is good to know that TG is committed to trying to ensure that they are recruiting the right kind of players. I do think that a cursory look at the players social media accounts, would maybe weed out some bad apples before they make it to the 'Burg.
Now if we can just get HCTG to get more creative on offense and concentrate more on the battle in the trenches. It is great to have flashy players, etc. But the games are won and lost by the big uglies.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#531406
BuryYourDuke wrote:I understand the fan culture here at LU is...unique. Gill is the hero today, and that's great. I think he deserves credit for a heartfelt response to media, for probably the first time since he's been here.

But as has been pointed out, it is REALLY easy to look at these kids' social media accounts and know exactly what kind of people they are recruiting. No special info from HS coaches necessary. No having to ask a bunch of questions. It's in plain sight.

I get it. Recruiting here is hard, and getting harder in some ways. I totally agree with the sentiments that Gill expressed regarding our culture. That doesn't change the fact that we have an obligation to put young men and women on the field that represent our university well to others, and each other. I hope that the coaching staff will continue to take that seriously as we make the step to FBS.
I agree that looking at a recruits social media could be useful and should be a part of the vetting process, but let's slow down on the hyperbole Duke. It does NOT tell us exactly what kind of person they are.
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