Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#530633
I remember one of the Kansas fans coming on here and complaining that Gill was too much of an authoritarian. He hawked the guys too much. He had a no cell phone policy from Friday night until after the game on Saturday, among other things. Maybe he is still trying to find a balance.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#530648
flamehunter wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
jbock13 wrote:There's no way Gill didn't know that some of this stuff was going on.
I'm going to disagree on that. You'd be surprised what coaches both know and don't know. If these were Academic issues then he'd absolutely should know. This type of stuff maybe not.
For an instance, I was talking to my old coach and we were telling stories. I remember telling him about one players proclivities and he said 'I had no idea. It seemed so opposite of of what he appeared'. And that was a much smaller roster size than a FB team.
Of course, we won't go into what I got away with Study
Come on, I'm sure the statute of limitations have expired.
Why do you think his name is "Purple Haize"?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#530650
Sometimes Coach said he would 'prefer' we not do things. Sometimes I preferred to do those things.
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#530656
You cant know everything but a quick scan oc frazierz twitter is pretty rough. Some are more obvious than others.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530662
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/
Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#530675
Golly. I wonder if if the LU AD knows of any football coach noted for protecting his players :dontgetit hmmmm
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By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#530676
LU is hard enough to recruit to as it is. I have to think the rumors of much discontent on a team gives recruits pause, whether they buy into the culture desired at the school or not.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530678
It just occurred to me that since we are now FBS, these and potentially other players should be able to transfer to an FCS program and play immediately.
By ballah09
Registration Days Posts
#530680
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/
Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.
Well Kansas fans were warning us. Why would they put their name on it? they would risk their scholarship. After watching these past two seasons, I absolutely believe it.

As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#530689
Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:
By k9saber
Posts
#530691
"As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed."

Here is an underlying root issue...let's go big picture. When a sexual assault is compared to smoking weed, obviously one is a greater offense than the other, no argument there. But...when society begins to normalize and accept certain prohibited behaviors, such as marijuana use and its distribution, a much darker picture is presented. That type of justification then comes onto the LU campus and two different worldviews meet. In order to pursue lofty goals on the field, does a biblical worldview, or even one of high ethical standards, get left in the equipment room?

Justification or lowering of standards of behavior will never end with positive results, maybe wins...we have many decades of NCAA teams that have proven this.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530694
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:
And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#530695
oldflame wrote:
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:
And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.
:clapping
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530696
ballah09 wrote:
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/
Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.
Well Kansas fans were warning us. Why would they put their name on it? they would risk their scholarship. After watching these past two seasons, I absolutely believe it.

As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed.
I can't believe you are giving an ounce of credibility to that bunch of losers from Kansas. They were pinning all the problems of their program on TG when it was a dumpster fire for years before he arrived and if anything has gotten worse since he left.

The mission of the school is to build champions for Christ. That may or may not involve "second chances", but it certainly DOES involve teaching kids that there are consequences for wrong actions. We don't know who has been kicked off the team or not in this new group of transfers, but as far as those we know were dismissed in the past, I believe they all deserved it. And please tell me. How would you know that none of these players had character issues coming in? Finally, it was not all weed except Jackson. Holliway had a similar "relationship" with the same woman who accused Jackson, and apparently she flipped a coin or something and decided she would leave the party with Cam. If the coin had landed differently, Tyrin would probably have been the one accused of sexual assault.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#530701
oldflame wrote:
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:
And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.

I agree. And hope recruiting will be easier now that we can offer FBS.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#530702
BYU has an honor code that is as strict as ours (I would guess), and they do just fine. How about the military academies? Do you think they would say, "it is just some weed"? I would suggest that anyone who goes to BYU, LU and doesn't know about their honor code ahead of time, doesn't have the acumen to get through college in any event.
I don't believe it is harder to recruit to LU than the schools mentioned above.
Right or wrong, marijuana is illegal in the State of VA. How can we, as a christian university condone, or minimize breaking the laws of the State and stay true to our mission?
The leadership team should be held accountable for the character of athlete they recruit, as well as wins on the field. We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.
Finally, if one looks back at our short history, the best athletes we have had on campus were during the years when we had coaches that were no nonsense when it came to doing the right thing. Coaches, Worthington and Hout come to mind immediately. They probably coached more/better NFL and MLB players that the rest of our coaches combined.
By k9saber
Posts
#530704
flameshaw wrote:BYU has an honor code that is as strict as ours (I would guess), and they do just fine. How about the military academies? Do you think they would say, "it is just some weed"? I would suggest that anyone who goes to BYU, LU and doesn't know about their honor code ahead of time, doesn't have the acumen to get through college in any event.
I don't believe it is harder to recruit to LU than the schools mentioned above.
Right or wrong, marijuana is illegal in the State of VA. How can we, as a christian university condone, or minimize breaking the laws of the State and stay true to our mission?
The leadership team should be held accountable for the character of athlete they recruit, as well as wins on the field. We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.
Finally, if one looks back at our short history, the best athletes we have had on campus were during the years when we had coaches that were no nonsense when it came to doing the right thing. Coaches, Worthington and Hout come to mind immediately. They probably coached more/better NFL and MLB players that the rest of our coaches combined.
Best commentary yet.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#530705
flameshaw wrote: We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.
I really like Scott Jackson. I see baseball doing very well under him.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530720
rmiller1959 wrote:
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/
Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it...
For example, the continued and mistaken insistence on equating a Title IX violation with criminal charges, thereby presuming the lack of the latter means the former is invalid?
There is that, but I was referring more to the conclusion he seems to have reached (and I believe it is indeed a REACH) that the culture of the football team is "poisoned". It's a strong term, and I don't see enough to back it up. We will know more in the next couple of months based on whether more leave and how many. The actual amount of attrition to this point is only nominally more than any normal year.

I also question his conclusion that all these guys left of their own accord and the coaches were "begging" them to stay. If they were, I'm sure they were not doing it in front of the team, so any of that would have come second or 3rd hand from the players leaving. If they had in fact been dismissed, but had been told there would be no public statement to that effect if they transferred, they could tell their teammates whatever they wanted to in order to look good.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530724
As far as whether or not Gill "backed up" his players, I think a coach's decision to do that and/or offer second chances often comes down to the player's attitude toward their actions. To this point I have not heard the slightest hint from any of these guys that they have any remorse, shame, or even accountability for what they have done.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530731
BuryYourDuke wrote:First off thank y'all for reading my column.

With regards to the Title IX/criminal law distinction, I'm quite familiar with the difference. My objection to the Title IX portion of the case has nothing to do with the criminal action. It has everything to do with the broad stroke abuse of Title IX in a manner that it was never intended. Sad that our university has fallen prey to that.

OldFlame, I understand a bit of your skepticism. I have the benefit that you do not, and that is knowing the names of the people who said the things they did to me, as well as the others who have come forward since my column was published. My assertion has been proven more correct in the past 24 hours than even I had believed.
Appreciate the response and update Duke, and understanding my skepticism, which is probably the best word to describe how I felt (with perhaps a few drops from that river in Egypt sprinkled in). 8)

Hoping it's not too late for Turner to right the ship.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#530746
Interesting (but not at all surprising) that there has been zero discussion as to whether our swim team needs to be more careful/selective in who they recruit.
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