[R i]

If we keep hyping the wrong things in the wrong ways, as much as we have in the past we will continue to see the affects. The loudest the stadium is all game long is when free T shirts are announced. That is not the fans fault, they have been conditioned this way. Again, we need to make it about the football game and our team, to create intelligent fans who care about 3rd down stops.

[Jonathan Carone]

Again, we need to make it about the football game and our team, to create intelligent fans who care about 3rd down stops.

We do not have an intelligent fan base. We have a passionate fan base who enjoys a great show, but overall the whole of the fan base isn't intelligent.

[Jonathan Carone]

If we keep hyping the wrong things in the wrong ways, as much as we have in the past we will continue to see the affects.

In 2006, when Jeff Barber got here, he was given an athletic department that was coming off a day known as Black Tuesday. You know something monumental has happened when it is big enough and negative enough to get it's own name. He had some of the core pieces in place from an administrative standpoint, but there was a perception issue among students, alumni, and prospective athletes that said Liberty Athletics weren't a big deal.

Jeff did what any good leader is supposed to do in that situation: he set out to change not only the perception, but also the culture. His goal was to make us a Top 25 athletic department and to get there, we needed top 25 coaches, recruits, and facilities.

Some schools take on the attitude of, "Let me prove it to you." In the beginning, we had that attitude. It was a unifying mantra that inspired coaches and athletes to work harder to prove we were legit. Fans and alumni showed up to prove that we could be a great fan base and could make great atmospheres at games.

Fast forward to the end of the 2009-2010 seasons. We'd won a few conference titles in football. We had a fun year or two in basketball. Baseball was making a run in the Big South. However, we'd also gone through the Curry/McKay debacle. We'd endured a few WTF losses in football. Baseball couldn't beat Coastal. At that point in time, we went from proving why we were a big time program to telling you why we already were one.

And it was at that point the things shifted: we all bought it.

Going into the 2010 season, there was a different attitude around our athletics. We thought we would have success because we were told we would. Without having ever actually gotten over the barrier, we (athletes and fans) believed it was our destiny to make the next step. We became the program that, if this were a high school, were the new kid walking down the hall saying, "Act like you belong, act like you belong. You are big time. You are big time."

Our school took on the attitude of, "Let me tell you why." In light of that, our athletes and fans bought into the reasons why without it ever being proven to us. We were cocky and expectant even when we had nothing to base those attitudes on.

[R i]

Again, we need to make it about the football game and our team, to create intelligent fans who care about 3rd down stops.

We do not have an intelligent fan base. We have a passionate fan base who enjoys a great show, but overall the whole of the fan base isn't intelligent.

I agree. I think they are being conditioned that way. College football fan bases are made up of lots of Alumni, and their school is the majority of their football game day experience. So if we hype the corny stuff, they will cheer for the corny stuff and know no difference.

[thepostman]

Hey guys, I am probably going to homecoming football game this year. That should be all the motivation you need to go to homecoming!

[Jonathan Carone]

There's that whole baby being due that week issue for me.

[BJWilliams]

Im hoping to be there again this year (whether I live locally or not)

[thepostman]

There's that whole baby being due that week issue for me.

Yeah, that makes it tough. I just decided today I was going. I am going to drive down there the day of and come back that night.

[LUnpretty11]

There's definitely a balance that has to take place. Jon, you make some valid points. Students are expected to think we are better than everyone else and are taught that from day one. However, it's for good reason. When you look the best, act the best then you eventually become the best. In theory, it's at least the mindset. Essentially, we swung from one end of the extreme to the other from pre-Barber to now. I can't say I hate it, our in-game experience is truly top notch. The key is to keep the crowd engaged and Barber/department have done an excellent job of that, but you don't want to have too much. I think they are balancing it well right now, but don't need to add stuff like HT or other awful things associated like that.

Students/fans don't buy into a losing culture. When a winning culture isn't there, you have to create a winning mindset and I can't say I hate that about what they do.

[Purple Haize]

Hey guys, I am probably going to homecoming football game this year. That should be all the motivation you need to go to homecoming!

Let me check my schedule. I'm sure I have something else planned

[Jonathan Carone]

There's definitely a balance that has to take place. Jon, you make some valid points. Students are expected to think we are better than everyone else and are taught that from day one. However, it's for good reason. When you look the best, act the best then you eventually become the best. In theory, it's at least the mindset. Essentially, we swung from one end of the extreme to the other from pre-Barber to now. I can't say I hate it, our in-game experience is truly top notch. The key is to keep the crowd engaged and Barber/department have done an excellent job of that, but you don't want to have too much. I think they are balancing it well right now, but don't need to add stuff like HT or other awful things associated like that.

Students/fans don't buy into a losing culture. When a winning culture isn't there, you have to create a winning mindset and I can't say I hate that about what they do.

The issue becomes once those students aren't freshmen and sophomores. Once on-field results fail to match what they were told about how great we are, they begin to question it. As they become alums and the success vs hype still continues to be out of whack, they begin to get more disenfranchised. Instead of tons of young alum with a bunch of energy towards the program, you have some still drinking the kook-aid and a lot that have jumped off the boat. It's anecdotal, but of everyone from The LUnatics, less than 10% still follow Liberty football and even less follow the other sports.

[thepostman]

Hey guys, I am probably going to homecoming football game this year. That should be all the motivation you need to go to homecoming!

Let me check my schedule. I'm sure I have something else planned

don't lie, you got a little giddy when you read I was going to be there.

[Purple Haize]

Hey guys, I am probably going to homecoming football game this year. That should be all the motivation you need to go to homecoming!

Let me check my schedule. I'm sure I have something else planned

don't lie, you got a little giddy when you read I was going to be there.

I did glance up at the sky .....

[LUnpretty11]

There's definitely a balance that has to take place. Jon, you make some valid points. Students are expected to think we are better than everyone else and are taught that from day one. However, it's for good reason. When you look the best, act the best then you eventually become the best. In theory, it's at least the mindset. Essentially, we swung from one end of the extreme to the other from pre-Barber to now. I can't say I hate it, our in-game experience is truly top notch. The key is to keep the crowd engaged and Barber/department have done an excellent job of that, but you don't want to have too much. I think they are balancing it well right now, but don't need to add stuff like HT or other awful things associated like that.

Students/fans don't buy into a losing culture. When a winning culture isn't there, you have to create a winning mindset and I can't say I hate that about what they do.

The issue becomes once those students aren't freshmen and sophomores. Once on-field results fail to match what they were told about how great we are, they begin to question it. As they become alums and the success vs hype still continues to be out of whack, they begin to get more disenfranchised. Instead of tons of young alum with a bunch of energy towards the program, you have some still drinking the kook-aid and a lot that have jumped off the boat. It's anecdotal, but of everyone from The LUnatics, less than 10% still follow Liberty football and even less follow the other sports.

You lose me here. Sorry not sorry, but I don't get that. This is a shame. As passionate as you guys were and how much fun, nay, pure joy LU sports brought this group that should not be the case regardless of mediocrity.

This is an endless debate because you have eternal optimist like myself who always (almost) see the glass half full. "Jon, we had the worst season in 10 years last year and went 6-5! Things aren't THAT bad!"

Then you have depressing people like yourself who see the glass half empty. "Nick, the program hasn't progressed nearly to its potential in the last 5 years! Facilities! Coaches! Players etc."

Round and round we go. Jon, you know I have a man crush on you (but still not Beej man crush status), so don't take it personally.

With all that said, I appreciate what the department does for the in-game experience. You have a perennial 7-8(ish) win team that rarely loses at home. Why shouldn't they create an over the top atmosphere. I close this post with this: I went to a Panthers game last year and was bored to tears. I literally almost fell asleep in the 3rd qtr - no lie. I'm not a Panthers fan, but I love football. There is no reason anyone should ever (almost) fall asleep at an NFL game. Ever. LU keeps the fans engaged and provides something that is truly unique and exciting. This is confirmed by opposing teams fans that commend us on our in-game experiences. I say, keep it up, but lose HT - that needs to end STAT.

[R i]

Pretty,

Why are our fans always loudest when T shirt cannon comes out ?

[LUnpretty11]

Pretty,

Why are our fans always loudest when T shirt cannon comes out ?

Because they are homeless and in need of clothing?

EDIT: I'm not saying our fans aren't idiots. They very much are. However, that is something that has improved ever so slightly over the last 10 years. Kind of like evolution. It's a sloooooow progression.

EDIT x2: The real fans aren't idiots. They are actually really smart sports fans. It's the social gathering that creates the issue. The students who really don't care but are just there because it's "a fun and exciting thing to do with your friends on campus" are the ones that cause a lot of the embarrassment we real sports fan get upset about.

[Jonathan Carone]

I think our in game environment is really good for the most part. I'm not putting down the overall environment. I even made a post on here a couple years ago that said I thought our game day ops in stadium were better than Tennessee's.

My issue is two part:

1) the overall voice of our program that puts hype over everything and

2) the continual reliance of the "show" on game day.

Those two things (saying "we're the greatest" along with creating a look at me environment on game day) without on field results leads us to a place where not only are we upset that we aren't performing, we're also annoyed that we've been lied to and bought into the hype.

Heres the thing: I don't fully blame athletics for the hype machine. University Marketing controls everything that is said and, getting back to the Humble Tip point, University Marketing is the group who thinks things like that are a great idea.

[amar0819]

I have been nothing but hyped up to go to VT for our game against them this weekend. With that being said...all of my excitement seems to be crush when realizing its a game that isn't that big of a deal after all in comparison to the rest of college football. In my office there are VT alumni, Tenn. alumni, Miami, Penn state, South Carolina and so on. I asked one of the kids from VT if he was going to the first game of the year and he replied no the tickets in Bristol are too expensive.......Fans wont change because I am sad to say that unless you are in the big south you don't really even know who any of the teams are in that conference....App state has Miami(FL) coming to Boon this year...It isn't an issue about what the marketing department does because if the games seem like D2 and D3 games no one REALLY cares outside of the bubble. At this point all the marketing department can do is provide entertainment during the game. I personally think they should even take the flame throwers another level, no stadium should be able to match what we do in that department..or even a KISS concert. With all that being said I went to a UNCC game last season and trust me when I say our game atmosphere crushes theirs.

[LUnpretty11]

I think our in game environment is really good for the most part. I'm not putting down the overall environment. I even made a post on here a couple years ago that said I thought our game day ops in stadium were better than Tennessee's.

My issue is two part:

1) the overall voice of our program that puts hype over everything and

2) the continual reliance of the "show" on game day.

Those two things (saying "we're the greatest" along with creating a look at me environment on game day) without on field results leads us to a place where not only are we upset that we aren't performing, we're also annoyed that we've been lied to and bought into the hype.

Heres the thing: I don't fully blame athletics for the hype machine. University Marketing controls everything that is said and, getting back to the Humble Tip point, University Marketing is the group who thinks things like that are a great idea.

I truly get where you're coming from, but let's look at the big picture. I definitely don't think we've been lied to, I think that's a bit much.

How many top 25, top 15 and top 10 teams have we hosted at Williams Stadium in the last 10 years?
Top 25 - 2-2 record
Top 15 - 1-2 record
Top 10 - 3-2 record
6-6 record against top 25 opponents in last 10 years.
What's our home record in the last 10 years?
50-10 = 83% win pct. 10 of those 50 are against D2 teams, so it's a 40-10 record vs. D1 = 80% win pct at home.
Here's the breakdown:
4-2 in '06
6-0 in '07
6-1 in '08
12/14 Elon W
5-1 in '09
6/8 JMU L
5-0 in '10
5-1 in '11
13/14 JMU L
20 CCU W
4-2 in '12 - Gill's first year
24 Norfolk St L
13/16 Lehigh L
6/8 Stony Brook W
6-1 in '13
4/6 CCU L
4-2 in '14
25 Bryant W
20/21 Richmond L
5-0 in '15
7/8 Montana W
4 CCU W

Of those games we lost at home - 2 went to OT or 2OT and only 1 game (JMU '09) was by more than 1 score. Why do I point that out? Moral victory you say? Heck no. It shows teams have a very tough place to play when they come to Lynchburg. I'm not saying we are a powerhouse program, but we aren't trash either. There is a healthy balance there and I think it's terribly unfair to say we have been lied to over the last 6 years.

[Jonathan Carone]

We aren't trash by any means, but we aren't where we should be or where we were. Williams Stadium is a very tough place to play and that's due in large part to fans who are very passionate. They've been conditioned to be early and loud. That part of things is a win.

However, it's possible for things to not be bad and still be unhappy with where they are. When you have high expectations, due in large part to what we have been told we are and what we have been told the goals are, it takes high results to meet the expectations. We haven't lived up to that in recent years.

Also - while our home record has been stout and we've beaten quality teams - how many of those have happened when it actually mattered? Elon; SBU, and Coastal were all after we'd lost games we shouldn't have to effectively end our bids for the playoffs. That's the type of hype me and R i are talking about. It may be factually true, but when you look at context, the only big win at home was over Montana, and even that is questionable because of where their season went. All the other opportunities to take the next step ended in losses.

I can look at stats and records and make the case that we are both great and underperforming. But when I look at all of that in context, it shows our hype does not match our results. That's where my frustration with football is.

[LUnpretty11]

I'm not arguing frustration with you. I am arguing that the athletic department has been lying to us. The issue is the slight contradiction between your first paragraph and second. Williams Stadium is very tough place to play because of several factors. 1. Rocco came in and turned the program around quickly. 2. Sustained success at home. 3. Commitment from department to unify the fans as much as possible. 4. Exciting games to watch i.e. opponents, players and rivalries.

All of these factors come together to create an atmosphere of expecting to win every home game. I'm not going to disagree that the program has fallen short and many of the wins have been diluted because of wtf losses throughout the season. I definitely disagree on Elon win, but I also understand your point.

In summation, I appreciate what the department has done to educate, unify and excite the fan base. It's a process of several steps that have to be sustained over a consistent period of time. You lose consistency, you lose it all. LU football went 6-5 last year and we all lost our minds with how unacceptable that is and Barber acknowledged it. To me, that proves we should expect to win every home game.

I acknowledge the frustration and admit it is warranted, but let's be slower to accuse the department of lying to it's fan base. And let's all come together to find a better way to utilize HT. I don't have problem with him going on recruiting adventures, but let's leave him out of our sports hype. Sorry HT.

[BJWilliams]

HT?

[Jonathan Carone]

So your whole disagreement is actually based on a word that should've been put in there which is my mistake. I should've said this:

Those two things (saying "we're the greatest" along with creating a look at me environment on game day) without on field results leads us to a place where not only are we upset that we aren't performing, we're also annoyed that we feel like we have been lied to and bought into the hype.

Those are two totally different things. The department hasn't lied. That's why I said in my latest post that context matters. All the things the department tells us are factually true, but they feel wrong once you look into the context.

That's my fault for not communicating well.

[Jonathan Carone]

And let's all come together to find a better way to utilize HT. I don't have problem with him going on recruiting adventures, but let's leave him out of our sports hype. Sorry HT.

Great dude but doesn't need to be doing hype videos for us.

[LUnpretty11]

So your whole disagreement is actually based on a word that should've been put in there which is my mistake. I should've said this:

Those two things (saying "we're the greatest" along with creating a look at me environment on game day) without on field results leads us to a place where not only are we upset that we aren't performing, we're also annoyed that we feel like we have been lied to and bought into the hype.

Those are two totally different things. The department hasn't lied. That's why I said in my latest post that context matters. All the things the department tells us are factually true, but they feel wrong once you look into the context.

That's my fault for not communicating well.

That's fair, but does it really feel like a lie? I'm asking genuinely.

I honestly don't remember hearing the department say "we are the greatest" and I may be responding too literally. Showcasing shared BS titles is ridiculous, but really can't think of anything other than that?

We are expected to win every home game. To me, that's warranted.
We are expected to have players get drafter or make NFL rosters. To me, that's warranted.
We are expected to have a hyped up capacity crowd every game. To me, that's completely warranted.

I'm not going to argue there has been disappointment and frustration. But looking at the whole picture, I think the hype and excitement is all pretty well warranted. And that's not drinking the kool aid.