[flameshaw]

A new big, shiny building we don't really need that can't pay for itself. At some point, you have to expect that all these "recruiting advantages" are going to pay dividends in the form of championships right??

Sorry... I'm in a pessimistic mood right now. And yes, that was the first thing that stuck out to me was the top left, although if you look closely, the entire background is totally different than what you see today.

Stay away from any sharp objects.

[BJWilliams]

I hate to say it my pessimist friend but championships is a rather short sighted metric don't you think? If that were the only way to determine the worth of an investment, there would be a lot of places that would need to tear them down for basically being a "waste of money". I'm sure the university leadership has vetted every potential opportunity to use the facility outside of football and not just be there for the shiny and new factor

[jinxy]

Agree with humble. It will be nice for sure but it just makes worse as we build palace after palace and keep scrubbing out in all 3 sports.

[thepostman]

If we don't win championships or move to FBS it is pointless. We aren't talking about some minor upgrade. This is millions of dollars. My school us investing in athletics. I expect a return on that and I would imagine our athletic dept feels the same way.

[ballah09]

exactly! all this money being invested, COA's, and "trying to be the evangelical Notre Dame". no one should be content with 'just' competing for big south titles. expectations should be NCAA tournament wins in all sports and that is doable expectations.

[rogers3]

Agree with humble. It will be nice for sure but it just makes worse as we build palace after palace and keep scrubbing out in all 3 sports.

UVa had been doing that for years, so there is a precedent. I will always remember that our men and women's basketball teams have won in JPJ. I think the ladies game was one of the first games played the new arena(maybe I'm wrong...I am getting old).

[Humble_Opinion]

I hate to say it my pessimist friend but championships is a rather short sighted metric don't you think? If that were the only way to determine the worth of an investment, there would be a lot of places that would need to tear them down for basically being a "waste of money". I'm sure the university leadership has vetted every potential opportunity to use the facility outside of football and not just be there for the shiny and new factor

BJ there is one overarching theme/discussion taking place in higher education today and it's called Cost of Attendance. You can search until the sun goes down, but the fact of the matter is the purpose of this building is athletic. Sure, they can use it for once-a-year types of events like graduation, but they don't make money on building usage for graduation. They can rent it out and use it to run camps, and maybe even rent it out for conferences. But those type of events will not come close to covering the cost of the building.

And no, I don't think having championships as the measure is a "short-sighted" metric. We hold our coaches to high standards, to push them to win don't we? And if they don't, more and more pressure is placed on them, isn't it? Whenever you hear your AD mention recruiting, you know what the building's purpose is. It's about team performance and improving the on-field product, which ultimately translates into the push for championships. We already have such a higher level of commitment across the board to our athletics program than any other school in our conference. When does it pay off?

[Chippy]

Cider, UVA' s football building is across from JPJ and has two turf practice fields. They will start construction on an indoor facility this year sometime.

Meanwhile 4 years later

[Chippy]

Cider, UVA' s football building is across from JPJ and has two turf practice fields. They will start construction on an indoor facility this year sometime.

- January 10, 2012
Meanwhile 4 years later

[jinxy]

I think there's a real growing frustration in the fan base with all the money being spent and the lack of results. I really believe the next 2 years are crucial for JB, toman, richardson, green and Gill and really the program.

[thepostman]

yeah the negativity is even starting to show up on their facebook pages where all the kool aid drinkers lurk.

[Dalegarz1]

I wonder if part of the problem has been the hiring of "big names" to be head coaches. We need proven winning coaches, not just big names.

[forbidden]

what do you consider a big name, or McKay is not are you saying HCTG is because he played at Nebraska or because he was HC at Kansas. I don't think a penny of the $$$ being spent on the LU facility is coming out of anyone's pocket so why should it matter. If the school wants to position itself to try and garner more top notch kids, and they think this is what will help then so be it.
Yes, wins are the bottom line at the end of the day, but it still don't mean your getting all the best players, no matter what some of you may think. At the end of the day LU still has a "perception" to some whether it be good or bad, that's the facts. All the $$$ they sink into the program and this and that you still can only coach the players you have. Hate to tell you but when a kid has a choice between going to a school at the beach or going to a school that can be considered "uptight" where do you think that kid is going. Right or wrong but that's facts too. So IMO, all the hub bub about what the school is doing wont change, LU still has to get the kids that want to come here, NOT as a last resort but because they WANT to.

[olldflame]

It makes me laugh to hear guys whining about spending money. I can remember when our basketball court was a peeling coat of rubberized paint over concrete and Sam had to pay the football team's hotel bill with his personal credit card and hope and pray he would be reimbursed eventually. Now we have surplus millions and basically need to spend or invest it on something in order to maintain non-profit status. So sorry to hear some are suffering embarrasment or mental anguish because our superior facilities have not yet resulted in total domination. I personally am thankful for the blessings and hopefull that they will lead to better results in the longer term.

[olldflame]

what do you consider a big name, or McKay is not are you saying HCTG is because he played at Nebraska or because he was HC at Kansas. I don't think a penny of the $$$ being spent on the LU facility is coming out of anyone's pocket so why should it matter. If the school wants to position itself to try and garner more top notch kids, and they think this is what will help then so be it.
Yes, wins are the bottom line at the end of the day, but it still don't mean your getting all the best players, no matter what some of you may think. At the end of the day LU still has a "perception" to some whether it be good or bad, that's the facts. All the $$$ they sink into the program and this and that you still can only coach the players you have. Hate to tell you but when a kid has a choice between going to a school at the beach or going to a school that can be considered "uptight" where do you think that kid is going. Right or wrong but that's facts too. So IMO, all the hub bub about what the school is doing wont change, LU still has to get the kids that want to come here, NOT as a last resort but because they WANT to.

+1000
I always have and still do believe that there are enough elite athletes out there who would fit in and thrive at LU to.elivate our programs to a much higher level, but for now, they are still taking their talents to major college programs. Having the facilities and the right coaches will be esencial in building a reputation that will get more of them to start coming to Liberty.

IMHO the only real "name" hire we have made recently is Dot Richardson. I am cautiously optimistic about the progress being made there. Talent has been upgraded but the team is sooooooo young it is too soon to pasa judgement on the coaching.

[ballcoach15]

We need to "upgrade" recruiting in every sport. We always seem to be "two players" away from fielding a team to reach the next level.
Big South Championships are nice, but we need to reach a level where if we do not win BSC championship, we can get an at-large bid to NCAA tournament.

[BJWilliams]

I am as well olldflame. My point is that while wins and losses and championships are the most visible sign, they are not the ONLY sign of whether or not a particular investment is profitable or not, especially as it relates to athletic facilities. I highly...HIGHLY doubt you will see much of a dividend on the IPF this fall...maybe even next fall. The real question about the ROI will come after its been completed and established for a couple years...and that is assuming no coaching changes occur in the first couple seasons after its completion. If we don't go out and win a Big South Championship in 2016 or 2017 does that make this a failed investment? That is why I think that using only championships is a short sighted metric and why I posed the question I did

[thepostman]

We should win the Big South Championship in football every single year. It has been stated by those in leadership that is what our goal is and it should be. I don't get why we should expect anything less especially when so much money is being thrown at football.

[ballcoach15]

We should win football, baseball, women's basketball and softball every season.

[flameshaw]

I believe it is very smart to upgrade the facilities while we are flush with cash. It is financially the responsible thing to do. One never knows how long the cash cow, online program will continue to be so well attended.
While our facilities will never equal dominance in any particular conference, it should even the playing field a bit, when it comes to recruiting. We do have a bit of a disadvantage because of our mission, but it can/should be an advantage when recruiting excellent Christian athletes. So far, we don't seem to have taken full advantage of that opportunity.
The upgrades will also prepare us for a move to a FBS conference, which will eventually happen.
I agree, we should win football, basketball, baseball, women's basketball, softball, track, every year. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not done so. The BSC is pretty weak and losing to most of these teams should never happen. On the positive side, we need to remember as a University, we are still very young. Especially when you consider the first 20+ years, we were just fighting to survive. I believe the administration is dedicated to the sports program and realizes that the future growth of the university and be greatly advanced by success in the program. Hopefully, it will happen soon. I do think some of the natives are getting more restless as time goes on. It can't come too fast for me, but I don't see a major overhaul in personnel as a prerequisite.

[Humble_Opinion]

I don't think a penny of the $$$ being spent on the LU facility is coming out of anyone's pocket so why should it matter.

From a business finance perspective, that would be total lunacy. Somewhere, that cost is being accounted for. If not, then LU is not paying due-diligence to its future fiscal health.

It makes me laugh to hear guys whining about spending money. I can remember when our basketball court was a peeling coat of rubberized paint over concrete and Sam had to pay the football team's hotel bill with his personal credit card and hope and pray he would be reimbursed eventually. Now we have surplus millions and basically need to spend or invest it on something in order to maintain non-profit status. So sorry to hear some are suffering embarrasment or mental anguish because our superior facilities have not yet resulted in total domination. I personally am thankful for the blessings and hopefull that they will lead to better results in the longer term.

Yes, we all have heard those stories. I have heard stories about struggles to make payroll, etc. We are all glad that is not something LU does not have to worry about in the present. And you are right, we do generate large operating incomes and have for several years running. That doesn't mean we need to spend the money as quickly as possible to maintain not-for-profit status. That's not what 501(c)3 status is. Not sure where you got that... And for the record, I'm not whining here, nor am I suffering mental anguish. However, I am cognizant of the fact that a family, who doesn't qualify for PELL Grants and has a student that wants to live on campus has to cover a cost of roughly $16-18k/yr out-of-pocket to attend LU. That is AFTER taking into account the basic aid package they are allotted from the school. Do the math. That's a lot to ask, and you are KIDDING yourself if you think that all of these buildings being added to the campus don't have an impact on the costs associated with a student attending. Whether it's online or residential.

So, again, I don't think it's too much to ask why we are building some of these buildings?

[Humble_Opinion]

I believe it is very smart to upgrade the facilities while we are flush with cash. It is financially the responsible thing to do. One never knows how long the cash cow, online program will continue to be so well attended.
While our facilities will never equal dominance in any particular conference, it should even the playing field a bit, when it comes to recruiting. We do have a bit of a disadvantage because of our mission, but it can/should be an advantage when recruiting excellent Christian athletes. So far, we don't seem to have taken full advantage of that opportunity.
The upgrades will also prepare us for a move to a FBS conference, which will eventually happen.
I agree, we should win football, basketball, baseball, women's basketball, softball, track, every year. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not done so. The BSC is pretty weak and losing to most of these teams should never happen. On the positive side, we need to remember as a University, we are still very young. Especially when you consider the first 20+ years, we were just fighting to survive. I believe the administration is dedicated to the sports program and realizes that the future growth of the university and be greatly advanced by success in the program. Hopefully, it will happen soon. I do think some of the natives are getting more restless as time goes on. It can't come too fast for me, but I don't see a major overhaul in personnel as a prerequisite.

I understand the argument about pursuing elite, Christian athletes (a la Tebow/Curry/etc.). I also agree in principle, that the relative age of our university has an impact. There are enormous pockets of people that still don't really know who LU is, outside of the Falwell name. And I agree that athletic success can be an aid to us here. However, if we stopped building athletic buildings today, I would wager that our currently occupied facilities are easily among the best in all of Div I-AA (FCS). They are also among the newest and most modern. We already have a huge advantage and have had it for nearly 4 years solid. If facilities correlate in any way with the relative success of an athletic program, then how is it that CSU has become the 'team-to-beat' in the past few years? Have you looked at their facilities? Have you seen the size of their school? They have far more disadvantages than LU does, and yet, their program (at least in football) has shot ahead of ours for the moment.

I'm just saying... were it me in JLFJR's shoes, I'd be putting the brakes on any new additional buildings for athletics until they can prove to me that the buildings and funding they already have is making an impact on their success.

[jinxy]

Bingo. Humble is spot on. Glad I didn't have to type that.

[olldflame]

I think you either missed or chose to ignore one of flameshaw's major points, and the reason we continúe to build. At some point in time the LUO cash cow will dry up, or at least s!ow down. Combine that with the fact that in this economic climate construction is a relative bargain, and I agree with JLFJR that we should build not just for present needs, but predictible future ones.

I agree that expectations should be high and at some point results should be a condition for continúed employment of our coaches. Hopefully JB learned a lesson from the DL fiasco and won't be giving out any more long extensions based on a few days island of success in the middle of an ocean of losses. That is a seperate issue from facilities, which will continúe to be an asset to programs as coaches come and go.

[BJWilliams]

Its perfectly understandable to expect to win the Big South every year in everything, but at the end of the day that isn't always going to happen. Some years someone else's name is going to be on that championship trophy, but that doesn't mean that it didn't warrant the investment put into the facilities. I also agree that results should play a part in the decision to retain coaches, but not be the sole determining factor.